New Centurion Annual Fee, Joining Fee and Points Earning Structure

[sparoz]

I assume as long as the bonus partner stays then I would be happy. Honestly, my spend on the card are shopping plus travel. Since the birth of my daughter 12 months ago we have really reduce our time going out to eat. Accumulation of my business points would probably have to shift back to my business cards where I would still earn 1.5 points / $. One of the justification of the card was the bonus points. Since joining however, I already felt I got my fees worth without considering the bonus points. Having Marco Polo continued, dj lounge access, and accor status would only add to this.

 

[R36snowbound]

Like a few others on this thread, I hold AMEX Centurion and Citibank Select Visa Signature card.

My spend is above $500,000 per year and is approx 75% with AMEX and 25% Citibank.

I dont use my Centurion card to make payments to the ATO.

I am not happy with the changes to the AMEX rewards program and am accepting of the increase in annual membership fee. If the fee had increased but the membership rewards program had not changed, I would have been accepting and said nothing.

In my opinion, AMEX is simply devaluing the Centurion Card and using smoke and mirrors to complicate the rewards point earning structure, they must have some good spin doctors on the payroll.

From my point of view, most Centurion cardholders work smarter, as well as harder and most use their points for airline upgrades. This is based on meeting other Centurion card holders at AMEX organised events. Yes, there is some "shock and awe" value of having a titanium credit card in your wallet but what that worth? And is this the reason why Centurion card holders pay $4,300 per year for thr card?

375,000 per year spend wth AMEX Centurion equals 562,500 SQ points, before the changes come into effect.

I spend on average $50k per year on professional services, such as accountants, lawyers, financial advisors, doctors, dentist, etc.... All of which will now only earn 1 point per dollar spent, instead of the previous 1.5 points.

If I cancel my Centurion card, shift all my purchases to my Citibank Select Visa, the $375,000 spend will earn the equivilant of 498,750 SQ points. So, I will loose 63,750 points but would save $5,000. Hmmm, time to look at what other value I see in my Centurion membership before my renewal date.

The reality of the siutation is, in the real international travellers world, one can get by without an AMEX card but due to AMEX not being accepted everywhere, people also have either a Visa or a Mastercard. On that alone, the Visa needs to stay in my wallet.

My relationship Manager assures me that the travel insurance cover for Centurion cardholders will not be changing....which will affect my decision.

I spoke with the Citibank select call centre today and requested an increase in my credit limit, call it a pre-emptive strike AMEX. My call was answered in less than 1 minute, by a gentlemen that spoke perfect English and I was told that they have experinced a spike in enquries about the Select credt card over the lst few days, from disgruntled AMEX platinum and centurion cardholders.

Time to try out the Citibank concierge I think..........

 

[Jane-Doe]

Excellent idea - I'll try the Citi Concierge too. I've forgotten the name of my assigned Centurion CRM.

 

[pshepvic]

For me this is swings and roundabouts. I doubt anyone would ever be "happy" with a fee increase, but again it comes down to the benefits. The travel insurance is worth over $2k to us. All our work travel is paid through the company TMC and the work travel insurance policy is pretty dismal, so either I need this card or to purchase a standalone policy. A lot of my personal travel is through points as well, which means that probably 90% of my travel is not purchased with a credit card. I can't get the same cover level and terms with any other card, and to purchase a policy with equivalent cover would be $1000 (at least) for each of us. Add to that insurance for my brother in law who can use the Plat supp card to book all his work travel, and about 50% of the annual fee is covered.

By the time you add up all the other benefits the fee is still covered for me:
- all the hotel memberships (with Accor Plat now it is good, as most of our preferred supplier hotels are Accor, but I can never seem to get past Gold) but particularly Hilton Diamond which with at least 10 nights a year gives us >$300 comp breakfasts, plus exec lounge benefits
- car rental cover, which reduces need for excess reduction or LDW - saves me $25(min) X 30 days(min) per year = $750
- Qantas club for my brother in law - $200 (discounted corporate rates - I don't see it as being worth the full $800 - but good news is it can be added for a Plat supp cardholder) - also now Virgin Lounges for him adds another $200 (although it says main cardholder in the T&Cs, I don't know how the lounge will be able to tell from the card)
- Marco Polo Diamond - means I can fly best fares in the US in F class rather than always flying AA to get the SCs for QF WP (saved me $1000 on my next trip alone)
- Priority Pass - while I don't get the full value, it has given us probably about $200 worth of lounge entry in the last year where no other access was available
- Companion fares have saved me at least $2000 each year

There are many more benefits that I get value on - some a $ amount and some you can't justify with a price - but those mentioned above justify the annual fee alone. I know some I would get with the Plat card at only $900, but with the change to the insurance the Plat card does not provide the cover I need and would therefore cost me at least $2900 with two full annual insurance policies added. I definitely get more than $2100 extra value from the card in other areas.

On the new points earn I will be better off. Around 50% of my spend is restaurants and hotels for my domestic travel - so in those cases the earn has increased. I will simply move my spend on utilities etc to my Woolworths EDR card for those. (except for GIO where I'm getting a bonus 5 points per $ at the moment).


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[serfty]

... I can't get the same cover level and terms with any other card, and to purchase a policy with equivalent cover would be $1000 (at least) for each of us. Add to that insurance for my brother in law who can use the Plat supp card to book all his work travel, and about 50% of the annual fee is covered. ...

Don't know where you are getting your insurance from but $1K seems awfully expensive for an annual policy.


Posted on a wing and a prayer ...

 

[Homer]

Homer, so far I'm pretty upset with the lifestyle team. I don't use them much, but every time I try, they either messed up with my request completely or unable to get what I want. Any chance you can disclose that guy to me? I promise I won't overload him as I only have 4-5 request a year?!

I'm going to PM you Diesellife but it goes no further. Kapish?

 

[pshepvic]

Don't know where you are getting your insurance from but $2moro seems awfully expensive for an annual policy.


Posted on a wing and a prayer ...

Two people, not one. I think I did mention $1000 each subsequently in my post.


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[serfty]

Two people, not one. I think I did mention $1000 each subsequently in my post.


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Apologies, it was a case of DYAC¹. :-|

My point was that $1k is rather up there ...

¹ Apparently $1k really means $2moro ?!?!?

 

[Ricardo]

. Since the birth of my daughter 12 months ago we have really reduce our time going out to eat.

Agree I have also cut down on expenses on my Plat charge card due to the recent arrival of children ....

 

[pshepvic]

Apologies, it was a case of DYAC¹. :-|

My point was that $1k is rather up there ...

¹ Apparently $1k really means $2moro ?!?!?

If you can suggest a insurance policy that gives the following for $500-800 I'd be more than happy to hear about it, as I would reconsider the benefit of Centurion:

- Car rental insurance/LDW up to $70k (not just excess reduction, as there is no such thing as "excess" in the US)
- $50k per annum luggage/documents/money cover
- Luggage delay $700 after 6 hours (per person), + another $700 after 48 hours (have had to use this 3 times before so it's important, particularly with tight connections to the Caribbean in DFW and MIA)
- Unlimited medical and generous dental limits
- Domestic cover for all of the above
- Useful Travel inconvenience (where in the case of the ash cloud stuck in Tassie they paid for flights out on Rex, all meals, accommodation and the additional car rental for 3 days)
- A call centre not in India, and ability to deal with them via email for most things
- Paying full replacement cost for lost/stolen/damaged items (never have been reduced in value for age or wear and tear)
- Sensible claims process - not excessive amounts of documentation required, fast processing, never any issues, and no declining of claims on minor technicalities (in fact, ACE have paid for some things not officially covered in the past)
- Covers worldwide, not just limited regions

I purchased an annual policy a few years ago for a year long trip to Canada. That policy cost me $1100 and I had done a large number of quotes with about 10 different insurers. It wasn't the cheapest but not the most expensive either. It did give the best range of cover compared to most others, but from memory still didn't come close to the Centurion cover (especially the luggage limits).

If there are policies around now that do offer all this I'd be happy to hear!


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[Cruiser Elite]

I can't believe what I am reading here about acceptance of the fee hike from 4,3K to 5K annually - that = 16.3% does it not?

Can I ask you guys who think a >16% increase in annual fee is ok will this extra $700 be coming out of your sky rocket or employer funded?

Thats not a fee hike - thats daylight robbery.

 

[k3nnis]

Hi,

Is the insurance cover for plat charge similar to that of cent? What does the cent have that the plat charge doesn't?

Cheers,
K.

If you can suggest a insurance policy that gives the following for $500-800 I'd be more than happy to hear about it, as I would reconsider the benefit of Centurion:

- Car rental insurance/LDW up to $70k (not just excess reduction, as there is no such thing as "excess" in the US)
- $50k per annum luggage/documents/money cover
- Luggage delay $700 after 6 hours (per person), + another $700 after 48 hours (have had to use this 3 times before so it's important, particularly with tight connections to the Caribbean in DFW and MIA)
- Unlimited medical and generous dental limits
- Domestic cover for all of the above
- Useful Travel inconvenience (where in the case of the ash cloud stuck in Tassie they paid for flights out on Rex, all meals, accommodation and the additional car rental for 3 days)
- A call centre not in India, and ability to deal with them via email for most things
- Paying full replacement cost for lost/stolen/damaged items (never have been reduced in value for age or wear and tear)
- Sensible claims process - not excessive amounts of documentation required, fast processing, never any issues, and no declining of claims on minor technicalities (in fact, ACE have paid for some things not officially covered in the past)
- Covers worldwide, not just limited regions

I purchased an annual policy a few years ago for a year long trip to Canada. That policy cost me $1100 and I had done a large number of quotes with about 10 different insurers. It wasn't the cheapest but not the most expensive either. It did give the best range of cover compared to most others, but from memory still didn't come close to the Centurion cover (especially the luggage limits).

If there are policies around now that do offer all this I'd be happy to hear!


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[pshepvic]

Hi,

Is the insurance cover for plat charge similar to that of cent? What does the cent have that the plat charge doesn't?

Cheers,
K.

Plat you now have to pay for the flights with the card. Centurion you don't - and considering 90% of my flights are not booked on my card (ie. they are work or on points) then the Plat insurance is useless to me, whereas Centurion isn't.

Limits are also $20k higher on Cent.


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[exp1k]

I can't believe what I am reading here about acceptance of the fee hike from 4,3K to 5K annually - that = 16.3% does it not?

Can I ask you guys who think a >16% increase in annual fee is ok will this extra $700 be coming out of your sky rocket or employer funded?

Thats not a fee hike - thats daylight robbery.

Well, some people think the more it costs the more exclusive it is.

I'm already struggling to justify $4300 for a charge card, $5000 very much reduces the likelihood that I will renew this year. The benefits for me as a frequent traveler who already has all the status levels he needs are really minimal.

 

[k3nnis]

Thanks. Are the excess payable high for say a delayed luggage and you want to make a claim???

Plat you now have to pay for the flights with the card. Centurion you don't - and considering 90% of my flights are not booked on my card (ie. they are work or on points) then the Plat insurance is useless to me, whereas Centurion isn't.

Limits are also $20k higher on Cent.


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[sparoz]

I know I have posted three times on this thread, but I have a good analysis of the new point system and the conclusion is that the Centurion Card point system is no better than the Plat Charge Card for the average card holder.

With the new point system, with the same $500k spend, I would lose 150k points a year, at 5% yield with the new MR conversion rate, this is 7.5k a year. As one of my suppliers stop accepting amex, one of my business card no longer max out and I can just shift my tax and other expenses back to the business card to max that out. There is therefore no net loss on tax and other 0.5 points items. Even if I can't shift those utilities and taxes to elsewhere, it is now point capped and not $ capped so there will be no net impact on the points earn anyway (if you don't max out your points cap, the only justification for the card would have been the other perks anyway).

What is interesting is that plat now have a point cap of 300k. What that means is that unless your current spends in restaurants and accommodation is over the 300k point limit, the cent is no longer better than plat. Even if it is better than plat, you will get a hit on points for the same $500k spent.

Let looks at this example:
a) The person spend $1000 per week on restaurant - $50k per year = 150k points
b) Stayed in hotel accommodation 100 nights per year and room rate at $500 per night = $50k per year = 100k points
c) 10 first class trip was made in the year avg $8k per trip with Asia runs = $80k per year = 160k points

Total spend = $180k, points earned = 410k, left over from the 500k = $320k on other spends = 320k points, ie total points = 730k, which is 20k less!

Now a person with such profile would have their own loyalty status in hotels and airlines which makes most of the perks of Cent over Plat pretty useless!

In the new system you are only better than plat if your bonus is over 300k, and how much more beneficial will depends on your spends on accommodation and restaurants.

However, Amex will point out that they are more benefits and there are better MR rates than before. In fact, even if I lose my 150k points with the new system, I am still better off because of the 5% yield to FF partners. This increase in yield with the total points earned will more than compensate the value of points I lost.

The irony is that I am better off with all the enhancements, but the value of Cent over Plat has substantially decrease because there is no way I can earn bonus points over the 300k limit. In fact, I would get exactly the same MR points if I hold a plat card. That leaves the perks for Cent the only justification of the extra $4100 premium, which there had been other threads dedicated to this topic, except we need to justify another $700.

For me, if they can have Cent only bonus partners, that would easily even out the points difference.

 

[pshepvic]

Thanks. Are the excess payable high for say a delayed luggage and you want to make a claim???

$0 excess on all claims. Another reason I see an advantage over annual insurance policies. In just a few years I've had 5 separate insurance claims - that could have been anywhere from $500-$1250 in excess with some policies.


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[pshepvic]

The benefits for me as a frequent traveler who already has all the status levels he needs are really minimal.

I am a regular traveller (last year I did 92 flights and probably 70-80 hotel nights).

However, in the past I have only ever been able to achieve Silver with Marriott and Gold with SPG, and more recently Gold with Accor. And all three of those have been a stretch. Now I rarely have to worry about picking a specific hotel, as I almost always get an elite benefit. And Hilton is the best for benefits, yet would be a chain I'd never have qualified for status with. I do now select them where possible for personal travel because of free breakfasts and exec lounge access, which is a significant benefit. Even with these additional stays, I still would never actually qualify for Diamond on my own.


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[k3nnis]

Sorry to ask about the plat charge card, is that also a $0 excess for claims?

$0 excess on all claims. Another reason I see an advantage over annual insurance policies. In just a few years I've had 5 separate insurance claims - that could have been anywhere from $500-$1250 in excess with some policies.


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[pshepvic]

Sorry to ask about the plat charge card, is that also a $0 excess for claims?

Used to be $0, but from memory with the changes there is excess now on medical and luggage/documents/money claims.


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