New Qantas Loyalty CEO announced

Paywalled :( - could you give a short summary of the key points please
This might (or might not) help (it's verbvatim):

The previously unheard-of Andrew Glance is about to take one of Australia’s hottest and most challenging executive seats – he has been named the new head of Qantas Loyalty.

How does he win back the favour of his loyalty customers, all of whom have been hit with an enormous decrease in the value of their points?

Andrew Glance will succeed Olivia Wirth as chief executive at Qantas Loyalty at the end of February.

<redacted>
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BTW, I think Elizabeth Knight is a pretty good journo...
 
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I wouldn't be surprised if QF had very high profits for QFF as well. Also this is one area where they can easily cook the books, since they have effectively created their own currency, their own valuations and be in charge of printing that currency.

It does have very high profits from QFF. Pre Covid (and during Covid?) in some years it was the only business unit that made any substantial profit. Its a jewel in their crown - and good luck to them. But its no longer a program that rewards flying frequently with Qantas, very much. Lounges are pretty much ubiquitous; Plats might get overseas call centres as much as Hobart; priority boarding is open to just about anyone it seems and we've talked about access to Award seats already.

Not to say QFF status doesn't have value - I'd rather be Plat than not - but P1 is the tier where it is truly 'rewarding', and again, good luck to all the P1s and the privileges they get. But for the rest of us, 'reward for being loyal in flying' doesn't count for much, unfortunately.
 
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@clifford - thanks for posting that.

I got so annoyed when the author insisted on comparing oranges with lemons that it made me not want to read on much.

To wit, they talk about the devaluation - comparing the CR with Points plus pay. They even admitted that there were no CR seats availae for their new search but even then STILL insisted this was a massive devaluation because 1.2m points > 139k. NO! Compare fairly or not at all. Two different things - and that author clearly knew this yet still continued with the argument. I really dislike that.
 
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Tell me where is “loyalty” truly rewarded.

It is a fantasy.

If you stay with all your accounts with the same bank for years they will rip the pants off you with inflated interest rates and fees until you threaten to cancel your loan or card. They will always give a new loan customer a better rate or kickback over an existing customer. The bigger the loan is with them, the harsher they treat you with future applications.

Insurance companies almost without exception give cheaper policies to new signups and rip off anyone who just renews.

Supermarkets will give better bonus points offers to anyone who stops or reduces shopping with them. If you spend more with them, the bonus offers go away.
 
Perhaps one of the enhancements will be to drop points expiry a la UA. It won't hurt the program in any appreciable way (although I'm sure a bit of spillage and incentive to spend points earns a few bucks) and at least those with a point value that they can't find a use for won't lose them. It will stop the Aussie battler loses hard earned points stories, too.
 
BTW, I think Elizabeth Knight is a pretty good journo...

I don't know anything about the journo but the article is a misleading mishmash of cough and appears she knows nothing on the subject or alternatively attempting to “create news” on a slow Friday.
 
All interesting discussions.

Essentially loyalty programs the world over are evolving to become parallel programs of status and rewards. You provide enough status benefits for the road warriors to spend the bulk of their $$ through the status side, where the rewards are just a side benefits, whilst on the rewards side they become rebate style programs for large credit card spenders. The small people, dangle a few things here and there to keep them happy enough.

And devalue the heck out of it every few years.
 
Tell me where is “loyalty” truly rewarded.

It is a fantasy.

If you stay with all your accounts with the same bank for years they will rip the pants off you with inflated interest rates and fees until you threaten to cancel your loan or card. <snip>

I can give you one example: HSBC Premier are pretty good for actually rewarding customers who can achieve that tier of ‘loyalty’, or maybe better to call it ‘relationship’, with the bank. There’s better interest rates and cheaper or waived fees.

I’d go further and suggest that all high net worth types are getting their loyalty / spending / balances rewarded with some good perks. But for the vast majority of us that is a completely different world…
 
Tell me where is “loyalty” truly rewarded.

It is a fantasy.
Yes, I agree and as I’ve said before, I’m not loyal to any organisation - no airline, no hotel chain, no brand or such. I’ll take status when it comes my way or when there’s a Status Match etc and then milk the organisation for whatever benefit it offers, but I’m not going to put myself out of my way or pay more just to earn status because I know that my loyalty won’t be rewarded.

The point, for what it’s worth, I was trying to make is that Qantas Frequent Flyer has evolved from a program to promote flying frequently with the airline (by giving sufficient rewards that you’ll do that) to a program where they sell points to merchants and the flyer largely fends for themselves against a hoard of non-flyers.
 
So much for being a thread about the new Loyalty CEO.

This might (or might not) help (it's verbvatim):

The previously unheard-of Andrew Glance is about to take one of Australia’s hottest and most challenging executive seats – he has been named the new head of Qantas Loyalty.

...
__________________________________________

BTW, I think Elizabeth Knight is a pretty good journo...

As RichardMEL notes, that was an appalling article. Knight should be ashamed of herself. She's either an idiot or it's pure clickbait. I read 160-odd comments and about three people pulled her up on it. What I did find particularly interesting in the comments was (a) the level of contempt for Qantas and (b) the number of people who agree with Knight's wrong assessment.
 
So much for being a thread about the new Loyalty CEO.



As RichardMEL notes, that was an appalling article. Knight should be ashamed of herself. She's either an idiot or it's pure clickbait. I read 160-odd comments and about three people pulled her up on it. What I did find particularly interesting in the comments was (a) the level of contempt for Qantas and (b) the number of people who agree with Knight's wrong assessment.
But this isn't the only person out there doing this. There are plenty of others. Just the other day I heard Tom Elliott (newly minted prime morning tadio slot) bemoaning how it cost him 300k points to send his wife and daighter to BNE using his points - again citing it as a massive devaluation. In his case, I feel it is more ignorance of the system (and this is QF's fault imo for their design pushing points+pay as the default when you select "use points" when the natural assumption is that means CR search).

However these opinions are being formed - via willful and knowing ognorance or not - its a message that is being spread.


And if you're Joe Public, without the level of knowledge that many on forums like this have, then it seems quite reasonable to believe these as gospel.

Further, with the ongoing anti-QF sentiment out there, will this stuff neatly fits the narrative and reinforces it.

Comments piling on the hate - often over the top or ridiculous - abound of course. That is the nature of Social Media giving everyone a platform.. no matter how relevant or not these complaints may be. And let's not forget the tall poppy syndrome either.

However it truly is disappointing when these misleading comparisions are made with incorrect conclusions.

There are many valid reasons to hang it on QF, but it's not fair when they're totally wrong - and easily proven as such. much harder when media commentators reinforce the incorrect information.
 
I just re-read Knight's article, having formed the same view initially as the previous few posters here. But I think she has a valid point, poorly expressed.

If the punter wants, say, to fly to London or somewhere exotic on their points (which QF promises ad nauseum) they go to book and the ONLY option available is the points+pay amount, no CR to be seen at all (and we know that is not just frequently, but mostly the case for popular routes), then the punter only has that expensive option. The punter does see a devaluation in what they can get for their points stash; half a trip to wherever, rather than enough for a family of four.

The punter shouldn't have to know this trick or that hack to succeed - they should only need to operate the FF scheme as its promoted by the company - earn points, get flights in your points. If the only flight they can get on a route for a long period of time is for the p+p amount at say 10x the cost otherwise, then yes, there has been a substantial devaluation for them. They go to the booking site, see the p+p cost (no CR price) and come away incredibly disappointed.

What's more surprising for me is that the public antagonism and media pile-on for Qantas is still rumbling along. Even the QR decision still gets an occasional story. All of which leads me to hope that the mooted changes to QFF will be actually better for its users, and not a la the 'simpler and fairer' enhancement we got last time.
 
I became WP through a DSC offer, and have retained it through international travel for another year. I have been able to get 2 x PE CR seats released on 4 flights within a year, and the first 2 flights upgraded to J. All from being WP. I have also been recognised by EK on 4 J flights with access to their first lounges, and preferential treatment onboard. So "loyalty" has worked well.

However, now that I have sampled EK, and have switched the majority of long haul to them, my QF status will steadily decline (although not to Feb '25). But there is little likelihood that I will ever get to Platinum with EK, so status will give way to class of travel. Its all a bit of a merry go round really.

My QFF CC pts earn will become less relevant, and my loyalty will drift away. I don't see that there is anything that the new head of loyalty can do to change that, so will not be pleading my case.
 
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If the punter wants, say, to fly to London or somewhere exotic on their points (which QF promises ad nauseum) they go to book and the ONLY option available is the points+pay amount, no CR to be seen at all (and we know that is not just frequently, but mostly the case for popular routes), then the punter only has that expensive option. The punter does see a devaluation in what they can get for their points stash; half a trip to wherever, rather than enough for a family of four.

The punter shouldn't have to know this trick or that hack to succeed - they should only need to operate the FF scheme as its promoted by the company - earn points, get flights in your points. If the only flight they can get on a route for a long period of time is for the p+p amount at say 10x the cost otherwise, then yes, there has been a substantial devaluation for them. They go to the booking site, see the p+p cost (no CR price) and come away incredibly disappointed.

I see the point and I noted this above in one of my rambles - this is a creation of QF's own design (another QF own goal - they score more of these than any oppo combined :p ). Because this is the UI design and what they are presented with gives the IDEA that there's a devaluation.

However, this is strictly not true. Many may see this as nuance but I believe it's a very important one. Many more will think I'm just a fanboy defending QF (plus whoever it is that thinks I work in marketing :D ) but I'm just stating it as I see it. points+pay is a different way to use points to pay for revenue seats as opposed to CR. Now yes, that difference is a nuance and the average punter doesn't know this - and nor should they - or care. None the less it is a key difference - specially when one can see the CR available alongside p+p pricing then it's obvious.

Yes, QF promotes the program totally in the way they all do - earn our points - get rewards. Simples. However the reality as we all know is that this is just the aspirational spin. Of course we ALL know that reward availability is NEVER guaranteed - even for the top of the top tiers.

(as an interesting semi-comparison, the new Rex program does actually have a guarantee of sorts that they will make all unsold seats available at a certain points rate within 48 hours of travel. QF does not make this kind of promise or claim. As a further thought, might QF take anything from the Rex Flyer scheme for their own use? Maybe?

So, there's the usual disconnect between expectation and reality. Is it reasonable to expect to be able to get say four reward seats to LAX to go to Disney during school holidays? Maybe? Maybe not. I'm really not qualified to judge that. The spin would have you believe you should expect it. Experience for many, specially lower tier members, says otherwise (unless they book well in advance).

Getting back to the point about the apparent devaluation when being presented with points+pay pricing for seats vs CR pricing.. again it's not a like for like comparison - and that's what really annoys me about the media writing such things. Now, the pub test almost certainly agrees with you that it is a devaluation, because that's what the member is presented with when they select "use points" - again QF have created this misconception largely through their own choices.

Of course, if "use points" ONLY brought up by default CR availability, and nobody saw anything for months on end for whatever they wanted, then likely the reaction would be that the program is useless for them - and in that case they'd probably be right (which I am sure is partly behind the design decision QF took) - better to show something that one can use points for even at ridiculous prices than endless displays of "sorry, we got nothing for ya."

The inconvenient truth for many is that the supply of reward seats can NEVER be enough to satisfy all the requests. I suspect even if a far greater inventory of higher priced "standard classic reward" seats were out there on popular routes at popular times, there would still be punters that would miss out.

Thinking on it, I reckon QF could actually make a simple tweak to the results display that we currently have to make it much clearer. You can bring up your p+p pricing but ALSO have in the column for "Classic Reward" instead of just saying "No Seats" to actually have the points price but also say no seats at this level - to make it clear that this is the CR price, but OK there's none there, but at least you could see.

(Amusingly, I did multiple searches for MEL-LAX over months and I keep seeing CR availability at 41,500 points(+$254) which kind of makes the point of no availability kind of moot, but I suppose that's my status also playing it's part!).

QF could certainly reduce the confusion and misconceptions with a change in how they display the availability imo.

What's more surprising for me is that the public antagonism and media pile-on for Qantas is still rumbling along. Even the QR decision still gets an occasional story. All of which leads me to hope that the mooted changes to QFF will be actually better for its users, and not a la the 'simpler and fairer' enhancement we got last time.
I've no doubt there will be an apparent "win" for the majority of members by whatever is announced.. but knowing that sooner or later, the other shoe will drop - as it almost certainly will but they can wait on that and hope to take a PR win from supposed changes to make people happier.

However the ongoing antagonism and media pile on is absolutely NOT surprising to me in any way. It's very Australian in many respects (tall poppies) plus people have long memories. Plus when the media turns mostly non stories into yet more reasons to have a go at (in this case) QF then they will - such as the article in question.

Just back to Mr Glance and his appointment - seeing he doesn't start in the role til the end of Feb - even if they announce changes in March or April, he wouldn't have had much to do with that I would think - and we already know they've been working on whatever these changes are for awhile now. Tweaks maybe but whatever the bulk of it is is already decided and I don't think we could praise, or blame, the new guy either way.
 
Just back to Mr Glance and his appointment - seeing he doesn't start in the role til the end of Feb - even if they announce changes in March or April, he wouldn't have had much to do with that I would think - and we already know they've been working on whatever these changes are for awhile now. Tweaks maybe but whatever the bulk of it is is already decided and I don't think we could praise, or blame, the new guy either way.
Calling it now. "NEW loyalty CEO DSC promotion offer". End of Feb.

I should put this in the DSC thread.
 
Just back to Mr Glance and his appointment - seeing he doesn't start in the role til the end of Feb - even if they announce changes in March or April, he wouldn't have had much to do with that I would think - and we already know they've been working on whatever these changes are for awhile now. Tweaks maybe but whatever the bulk of it is is already decided and I don't think we could praise, or blame, the new guy either way.
He's been working at Qantas since 2007 and been a senior manager in Qantas Loyalty since 2016. My guess is that he's been involved in the development of, or at least is pretty familiar with, the planned QFF changes as they would likely impact in some way his current business portfolio which covers "Financial Services, Qantas Money Brand including Travel Money/Home Loans/credit and digital platform, Coalition Partners, Qantas Business Rewards, E-Commerce – online shopping & Marketplace, and Vii Gift Cards" (lifted from his public LinkedIn profile). For example changes to classic reward flight earn or redemption rates would impact (to an extent) the value proposition of the Qantas Business Rewards program.

Agree however that unless he had some major internal disagreements with Olivia Wirth that he's now able to action once he ascends the throne he's unlikely to make any significant adjustments to any Loyalty program changes planned to take effect in the next few months.
 
Thinking a bit more, they might try to bundle all the announcements with the launch of the a220 as well. Adds an extra good PR point even if there are some minor "enhancements".
 

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