New VA Fare Structure

[esseeeayeenn]

Ok let's take this a bit further.
VA stated in their first public back flip that the same IT system would put Plats and Golds in the lowest fare automatically into the front rows (3-6 for Platinum). Now that same IT system can't distinguish between Plats and Golds in the booking process so nobody gets charged the seat fee until it can? Seriously ??
View attachment 77482

Not my area of expertise but I think they're two different systems - or processes.
One is a user-facing online interface which allows pax to select seats and will eventually include a payment system.
The other is the backend (sabre?) which actually allocates all pax to seats and comes up with a manifest.
The first would be an input into the second.

Forgive my terminology which is bound to be completely wrong.

 

[williamsf1]

Not my area of expertise but I think they're two different systems - or processes.
One is a user-facing online interface which allows pax to select seats and will eventually include a payment system.
The other is the backend (sabre?) which actually allocates all pax to seats and comes up with a manifest.
The first would be an input into the second.

Forgive my terminology which is bound to be completely wrong.

Not quite ... don't forget offline sales... the website is just a interface to the core system.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

I'm a vociferous critic of IT fails but even I hesitate to call it a fail when an IT system can't do something it wasn't designed to do.
If their IT was asked to design a new system to charge everyone on the lowest fare for seat selection regardless of status why would they design it to make an irrelevant distinction just in case VA changed their minds?

I'm not an IT person....nor do I wish to be, but from a customer perspective, I'd have though the ability to differentiate between status levels must be a core function across all requirements, both for current as well as future needs. I have no doubt that Sabre can handle these requirements from their end, but I seem to recall an inordinate number of failures, faults and stuff ups at time of crossover to Sabre, which many in IT circles claimed at the time, was VA penny-pinching over the Sabre purchase.

 

[williamsf1]

I'm not an IT person....nor do I wish to be, but from a customer perspective, I'd have though the ability to differentiate between status levels must be a core function across all requirements, both for current as well as future needs. I have no doubt that Sabre can handle these requirements from their end, but I seem to recall an inordinate number of failures, faults and stuff ups at time of crossover to Sabre, which many in IT circles claimed at the time, was VA penny-pinching over the Sabre purchase.

Sabre as a travel agent system may be OK .. but as a airline system it is sadly lacking...

 

[Edge]

I don't care if it's a backdown, backflip or back triple somersault in the pike position, just glad that seat selection will remain.

Now I'm also hoping that common sense prevails and that Fly Ahead remains in some form or another for SG/WP on the cheapest fare bucket. Even if it becomes an 'unpublished' benefit - I only ever use it to jump from a 5pm flight to a 4pm or 3pm occasionally, but it makes a huge difference to me when I do.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

I'd have thought the ability to differentiate between status levels must be a core function across all requirements, both for current as well as future needs.

Sabre as a travel agent system may be OK .. but as a airline system it is sadly lacking...

I wonder if this is why we see such minimal difference between VA SG and VA WP?

 

[Punky]

VA stated in their first public back flip that the same IT system would put Plats and Golds in the lowest fare automatically into the front rows (3-6 for Platinum). Now that same IT system can't distinguish between Plats and Golds in the booking process so nobody gets charged the seat fee until it can? Seriously ??

It's either poor paraphrasing of what was said, or misinterpreting what was said, but they didn't say that they couldn't distinguish between Gold/Platinum and the rest. The communication I got from Velocity was they needed to update the system to allow the fee to be exempted for Gold and Platinum. This is a different issue than not being able to recognise them.

 

[Warks]

Yes I'm happy with the backdown on seat selection. Really how much were they going to charge to select seats? $50? $5? How much could they have made? Most people would have not paid anyway and a significant number of frequent flyers would have switched so it would have been a net loss in all likelihood. Whoever suggested it has probably gone on gardening leave. Or been promoted.

 

[nlagalle]

Ok let's take this a bit further.
VA stated in their first public back flip that the same IT system would put Plats and Golds in the lowest fare automatically into the front rows (3-6 for Platinum). Now that same IT system can't distinguish between Plats and Golds in the booking process so nobody gets charged the seat fee until it can? Seriously ??
View attachment 77482

I was thinking about this.. if VA said the IT system can't distinguish between reds, silver gold and plats, then how do they get the seat selection to currently work?

 

[kamchatsky]

My guess is that there is a number of disparate systems that manage different functions for VA. One for seat assignment, one for status levels etc. So they are not fully integrated.

My another guess is that Sabre came VERY cheap when VA was putting the IT system upgrade to tender a while back. So for Sabre it is all about getting their platform in to VA, and then charge VA thru the nose for additional change requests and requirements variations. This is a very common tactic and I have seen it way too many times at my work (as IT Infrastructure PM).

To ask VA to transition out of Sabre to something like Amadeus would cost a fortune in IT transition costs. With their current cashflow constraints they need to manage their IT change requirements very carefully, and it all takes time.

 

[MarkD]

To ask VA to transition out of Sabre to something like Amadeus would cost a fortune in IT transition costs. With their current cashflow constraints they need to manage their IT change requirements very carefully, and it all takes time.

Yeah well, 2011 they started their transition and we have been hearing from point that things take time. I believe they are spending a lot of money in areas that its not required. I don't claim to be an airline executive, however to concentrate so much money on business class for one particular route i.e. west coast routes and abandon all others is short sighted and bad business practice. As for their IT systems, they have been cough from day once since they went to sabre. My guess is that they only bought part of the system (My employer did similar and only bought certain components and it is awful to use).
I wish they would just go back to DJ days and provide a basic seat on a plane like they do now and charge accordingly.

 

[williamsf1]

To ask VA to transition out of Sabre to something like Amadeus would cost a fortune in IT transition costs. With their current cashflow constraints they need to manage their IT change requirements very carefully, and it all takes time.

VA was already on Amadeus for the long haul operations. At the time it would have been a very simple change from the old DJ system (navitaire) to move the domestic / short haul operation over to 1A

GDS contracts are normally for a 10 year period with airlines.

 

[Rigs]

I like that I won't have to pay for seat selection now. Can't say I have much to complain about now as I never really used fly ahead.

 

[Jack_OC]

I like that I won't have to pay for seat selection now. Can't say I have much to complain about now as I never really used fly ahead.

Not a fan of 100% bonus points?!

Charging for seat selection was the biggest issue for me too, but that's not to say the other changes aren't a bit disappointing.

 

[Rigs]

Not a fan of 100% bonus points?!

Charging for seat selection was the biggest issue for me too, but that's not to say the other changes aren't a bit disappointing.

Cant say I ill miss it that much. I never earned that many points through domestic saver flights anyway. I'm sure it will impact people but my main dealbraker would be a major 'enhancement' to family pooling.

 

[Cryptarcadian]

We will release full details prior to the launch of ‘Fares For You’ on 7 September 2016 and we are confident that the changes will be seen as fair, balanced and continue to protect the benefits of our most valuable members in a way that is commercially sustainable.

You're confident that we'll see the changes as fair, balanced and that they will continue to protect our benefits... and yet you won't reveal them even 15 days out?

Keep in mind none of this has been announced to the general public, including the status bonus loss and any Fly Ahead changes...

Imagine how much better this would have gone if right from the start, the strategy and messaging was "we're going to start trying to making some extra revenue by charging a seat selection fee, but dear frequent flyers, we value your loyalty and repeat business more than an occasional few bucks per flight, so let us introduce this as a new status benefit where you get free seat selection, any fare, any time".

Or even "we recognise improving our IT systems so we can be smarter at earning revenue will do much more for our profitability than trying to nickel and dime our biggest spenders"?

Back in 2011, I committed to flying with anybody but QF the day they grounded the whole airline. And I now happily fly VA at every possible opportunity! But let's just say I'm glad this is all happening a month before my new platinum requal year starts again...

Practical question: What will happen to the current situation where if we had to book a red/silver colleague/friend/partner on a separate ticket, can we request we be seated together? Or will that require the payment of a seat selection fee for the other passenger?

 

[anat0l]

Back in 2011, I committed to flying with anybody but QF the day they grounded the whole airline. And I now happily fly VA at every possible opportunity! But let's just say I'm glad this is all happening a month before my new platinum requal year starts again...

So in other words, you're staying right where you are, because no matter how "bad" the changes could be, there's no way you're going back.

Practical question: What will happen to the current situation where if we had to book a red/silver colleague/friend/partner on a separate ticket, can we request we be seated together? Or will that require the payment of a seat selection fee for the other passenger?

Actually, what's the current treatment of this scenario? Currently, it wouldn't be so much a case of having to pay for seat selection (unless it was an exit row) as much as having the choice of seats (i.e. nominally, it is less for the Red passenger).

If I had to hunch a guess, you'd probably have to pay for the other passenger. If they were on the same booking, free of charge (again, I'm guessing except for exit rows and upfront Y on B777).

 

[Cryptarcadian]

So in other words, you're staying right where you are, because no matter how "bad" the changes could be, there's no way you're going back.

I flew on a QF ticket to get home from Asia recently, first time since 2011 — ironically, in large part because VA's terrible website wouldn't let me do a multi-city booking departing from almost any city outside Australia (and an SQ one-way ticket didn't make sense in this case). Turns out, I actually enjoyed the QF flight, even as someone with no status. So…

Actually, what's the current treatment of this scenario? Currently, it wouldn't be so much a case of having to pay for seat selection (unless it was an exit row) as much as having the choice of seats (i.e. nominally, it is less for the Red passenger).

Until now, I've never had an issue with VA seating a non-status passenger next to me, even in row 3, when we are on the same flight but had to book on separate PNRs for various reasons.

 

[Jack_OC]

Until now, I've never had an issue with VA seating a non-status passenger next to me, even in row 3, when we are on the same flight but had to book on separate PNRs for various reasons.

Same. And it's a situation that has arisen for me surprisingly often - e.g. me travelling for work, wife/kids tagging along (on a booking we paid for ourselves), or one of us on an Amex free flight and others paid for, or one on an award booking, other paid for.

I'm guessing that from now on we'll have to all be on the same booking or pay the fee(s) to select seats, and more worryingly, it might be impossible to get companions who are not Platinum seated up front, whether you're willing to pay or not. That said, some people will probably see that as a positive development!

 

[anat0l]

Maybe it's just worth waiting and seeing.

As I implied, Fly Ahead may be more restricting but then again maybe - especially for Plats - the staff will still bend the rules sometimes. That could also go for seat selection of people who are not on your booking.

The main "disadvantage" overall in a way is that something which was a defined benefit will become a 'soft' one.