New VA Fare Structure

[Dannyism]

It is possible that Getaway(from Virgin) and Go(to Qantas) fairs may actually be cheaper than current saver fares, just with no change or cancellation available.. There may be some benefits to some flyers.

I am going to be dissapointed if as gold or platinum I lose 1. free priority seat selection, 2. fly ahead
I am going to be pissed if I lose 3. Ability to earn points, 4. ability to earn SC's
I will never fly with VA again if I lose 5. lounge access, 6. priority boarding and check in

I personally didn't use the baggage allowance that often, regularly flying with carryon only.

If I can cheaper flights from MEL - BNE or SYD and still get the same points and SC's I'll be happy.

 

[HeavyElectricity]

Whilst it doesn't sound at all great, I'll be interested in how the actual fare prices work out.

If the price of 'Elevate' is the same as the current 'Saver', and 'Freedom' is the same as the current 'Flexi', then the changes aren't as bad as many are making out (e.g. I believe the current Fly Ahead terms do have the 'in the same fare class / price difference' clause, but it isn't asked for). 'Getaway' could just be an additional cheaper option. Space+ charges could just be a rename of the existing exit-row charges.

That's my optimistic side. I am more of a pessimistic person however :/ ...

 

[samas]

looks like Space+ is coming to domestic, wonder if this will require a reconfig of seating - no sign its free for elites either

I was guessing Space+ is Row 3 and Exit Row?

 

[esseeeayeenn]

I see this as part of the trend to try and monetise every single possible benefit which the carrier can bestow upon PAX.
It's not about cost recovery - many of these benefits (such as advance seat selection) have no direct cost - it's about the bottom line.
The problem is that these low or no cost benefits have traditionally been among the privileges which carriers have given frequent flyers.
So the more they monetise them and market them to all pax, the less they have available to offer frequent flyers.
That has happened with extra leg room seats. We are seeing it happen with upgrades as any passenger can bid $ for what would previously have been available for points or an op up.
Now we see it happening with seat selection
What's left? Lounge access, priority check in and extra luggage.
At the same time frequent flyer points are being devalued, flying is becoming one of the most expensive ways to earn them, and one of the most difficult ways to redeem them.
Taken together these trends lead inexorably to the conclusion that it will soon be preferable to actively seek the best discounts on business fares available on the day, and forget about loyalty and status completely.

 

[Ansett]

.
That has happened with extra leg room seats. We are seeing it happen with upgrades as any passenger can bid $ for what would previously have been available for points or an op up.
Now we see it happening with seat selection
What's left? Lounge access, priority check in and extra luggage..

My Bolding and underlining. We are already seeing this as a cost option at Qantas, albeit you need to be invited at this stage.

 

[Milefest]

What's left? Lounge access, priority check in and extra luggage.

We're seeing this happen already with promotions for free lounge access for over 60s and VA hinting further lounge access eligiblity. Extra luggage perk for status pax flying on a saver lite fare was also removed when that fare was discontinued last year.

 

[Denali]

.... to the conclusion that it will soon be preferable to actively seek the best discounts on business fares available on the day, and forget about loyalty and status completely.

This is what Ive been saying to my husband, that considering we are flying J class no matter what these days, its all about the best deal and forget the loyalty.

 

[Mattg]

My Bolding and underlining. We are already seeing this as a cost option at Qantas, albeit you need to be invited at this stage.

Virgin already sell one-time lounge access for $65.

 

[samh004]

There seems to be a trend these days where supposedly full-service airlines respond to competition from low-cost airlines by removing benefits and cutting costs - but not airfares. British Airways has been the market leader in this area, but other airlines (the major US airlines, Airberlin just last week and various others come to mind) are doing the same thing.

I understand what you're saying, but in the domestic Australian market, the two LCC's are owned by the full-service carriers, so they're not really competing against them... they can differentiate their products without stepping on each others toes!

Is the loss of seat selection (without fee) only for the cheapest Getaway fares, or for all?

 

[gwilli1]

I understand what you're saying, but in the domestic Australian market, the two LCC's are owned by the full-service carriers, so they're not really competing against them... they can differentiate their products without stepping on each others toes!

Is the loss of seat selection (without fee) only for the cheapest Getaway fares, or for all?

Getaway Only for Domestic and Long Haul / Go for TT

 

[anat0l]

...offering superior service and greater benefits to their frequent flyers.

Well, they do have better J seats than QF, newer aircraft, better OTP. VA / VFF have a swag of awards that QF have not and have never won. You can still get free hotel status with VA, and all redemptions have no fuel (sidestep for one moment that EY fee is fuel). Their PB works much more than QF, their lounges are overall better (if you take QF as the average of QPs and J Lounges around the country), and they are partners with more preferred international carriers compared to the competition.

I dunno... help me out here...

 

[Happy Dude]

Whilst it doesn't sound at all great, I'll be interested in how the actual fare prices work out.

If the price of 'Elevate' is the same as the current 'Saver', and 'Freedom' is the same as the current 'Flexi', then the changes aren't as bad as many are making out (e.g. I believe the current Fly Ahead terms do have the 'in the same fare class / price difference' clause, but it isn't asked for). 'Getaway' could just be an additional cheaper option. Space+ charges could just be a rename of the existing exit-row charges.

That's my optimistic side. I am more of a pessimistic person however :/ ...

That's my take on it too. As a SG with mainly east coast flying, seat selection and upgrade bids were something I never paid attention to anyways. Fly ahead, however, was, as was status tier bonus points and status baggage (no indication that will change?). Changes to those benefits might make me consider my loyalty, particularly if it's going to cost me more to get them. So we shall see how the pricing plays out.....

 

[ChrisFlyer]

and all redemptions have no fuel (sidestep for one moment that EY fee is fuel)

Try using Velocity points to book Virgin Atlantic on a route like HKG-LHR. VS website shows taxes of around $20AUD for Flying Club members, but book the same using Velocity points and a 'carrier charge' or similar appears on the ticket, making the total price more like $360 on a one-way flight.

Better rates on other routes with other airlines, though, especially on VA and SQ.

 

[minodude]

For the record, cheapest fare losing flyahead kills VA for me. I have ~80 domestic flights a year with them, and without flyahead... to be honest, I'll probably ditch them completely (including the ~ 20 business-class international segments I do on top of that).

Sad day for my relationship with VA.

 

[ComeFlyWithMe]

Did they use the word "enhancement"? Because if this was QF it would read like one heck of an "enhancement" based on the QF vernacular...

 

[Mattg]

Well, they do have better J seats than QF, newer aircraft, better OTP. VA / VFF have a swag of awards that QF have not and have never won. You can still get free hotel status with VA, and all redemptions have no fuel (sidestep for one moment that EY fee is fuel). Their PB works much more than QF, their lounges are overall better (if you take QF as the average of QPs and J Lounges around the country), and they are partners with more preferred international carriers compared to the competition.

I dunno... help me out here...

In a way I'm glad someone is actually willing to take Virgin's side here... not many have. But I don't agree with all of your claims.

VA may have better J seats than on their 777s than QF have on their A380s, but I would rate their A330 J seats equal to QF and their 737 J much worse. Considering that Virgin have 5x 777s, 6x A330s and 75x 737s, I think that's important.

The reason VA have won all of these awards (such as the Freddie Awards) is that they ran extensive campaigns to encourage people to vote for them. Qantas did not. In any case, while I agree that there was some merit to these awards I doubt they would still win many of them now with the recent removal of benefits, reductions in award availability, introduction of the EY award surcharge etc.

I agree that VA does priority boarding better than Qantas, but I completely disagree that VA's lounges are better. I find the Qantas lounges, on the whole, to be much better. Qantas also have lounges in many ports where VA does not.

In terms of partners, I much prefer the benefits of the oneworld alliance that you get with Qantas. Sure, VA partners with a few good airlines but the benefits can be pretty hit & miss and many of the partner airline systems don't even talk to each other. Almost every time I've flown with a VA partner, I've had to request a missing points claim and some partner airline employees had never even heard of VA.

 

[awkwardpaws]

way to alienate your FF base, VA... I wonder how this will actually impact their revenue, whether the $$ recouped will be greater than the lost business from its lucrative business travellers and FFs..

 

[MH_fan]

In terms of partners, I much prefer the benefits of the oneworld alliance that you get with Qantas. Sure, VA partners with a few good airlines but the benefits can be pretty hit & miss and many of the partner airline systems don't even talk to each other. Almost every time I've flown with a VA partner, I've had to request a missing points claim and some partner airline employees had never even heard of VA.

Except that the OneWorld alliance don't interline luggage/bookings, which is what an alliance is supposed to do. No issues with VA's partners in this department...
I've only ever flown with NZ and DL and I've never had to claim missing points with either of them. NZ are slow to post points but DL are quick.

 

[Roflco]

This is disappointing. Just made WP, but not sure if it will be worth maintaining. Especially after the Etihad changes as well.

Mainly east coast last minute trips on a cheapest saver fare. Lack of seat selection and questions around SC and points earn are troubling!

 

[bcworld]

The reason VA have won all of these awards (such as the Freddie Awards) is that they ran extensive campaigns to encourage people to vote for them. Qantas did not. In any case, while I agree that there was some merit to these awards I doubt they would still win many of them now with the recent removal of benefits, reductions in award availability, introduction of the EY award surcharge etc.

I have always voted for Velocity but had already decided they get no more support from me on the basis of their record breaking EY surcharges. The rest of this is very much the icing on the cake and seems like madness.