New VA Fare Structure

[Deleted member 29185]

You could still continue paying your overpriced Flexis and will have access to row 3, since seat selection is supposed to be included in your fare (cf. the cheapest ones).

But you do raise a good point; that is, would paying the cheapest fare and adding the seat selection fee on top be cheaper than buying a more flexible fare.

One problem is that if you need to change your flight or Fly Ahead, it will be more expensive on the cheapest fare (or impossible if you want to Fly Ahead). Even if you do change it, your seat selection which you paid for won't be refunded (presumably) if you end up changing to a higher fare family.

anat0l, my dear old friend (old being figurative speech)!

Have you ever thought of sidelining in the travel market? I neither have the smarts nor the time to investiagte the possibilities, but I do have the option of utilising a switched on person to do just that on my behalf....mate PM me if you're interested!

 

[grubbidok]

Do you fly the cheapest fares or flexible ones?
I always wondered if one would purchase cheap fares and fly ahead or flexible ones that might be easier to change.
The main thing is that Fly Ahead isn't really going away, but I'm guessing that you pay the cheapest fares so it will be.

It's a myth the last flight is always the cheapest. I book it regardless but quite often it has a premium over the 2-3 immediately preceding flights. Our work policy requires cheapest fare (this means no flexi allowed if saver available - I'm legitimately not sure how these new fares will fit into the policy).

And while I did say I use fly ahead about 20x per year but what I neglected to mention is that I actually get on that last flight even more often.

I have no issue sitting in the lounge and working until the last flight, as the time is already 'booked out' in my diary and I usually have to do a few hours computer time immediately after those days anyway. But with fly-ahead gone I can do that in the QF lounge too with little real difference. Fly ahead was a true bonus when it did happen and a USP that really engendered goodwill towards VA.

You also can't get on to an earlier flight without an empty seat being there anyway. So in this new scenario that seat will continue to remain unsold whether or not a fly ahead person occupies it, I'll have a few more drinks in the lounge at VA's expense while I ponder whether it would in fact be nicer to be over in the QF lounge given the VA USPs have been stripped.

It should be noted also that fly ahead on all fares has the "fees may apply" caveat. My guess is even on those more expensive fares they are preparing to downgrade this experience.

 

[kevrosmith]

Now that virgin won't allow 100% refunds (with their new changes)(to travel bank) of flexi fares

Wait, I'm not sure I understand you here.

My reading is that for Domestic Retail fares, Freedom fares still allow full Cancellation (and I assume fee-free to travel bank). The No Show option is more if you don't turn up (either checked-in or not checked-in), and the change for No Show for Freedom fares is actually an improvement. At the moment, No Show for Flexi is complete forfeit, whereas this seems to indicate you'll retain 75% of the fare value for a Freedom fare.

I always book Flex Lima (L) class fares or higher, so this is a slight improvement. I've always had in mind that if I can't fly, I have to make sure I cancel the flight to Travel Bank to retain the full value. At least now I know if I miss that cut-off (flight departure time), I'll still be able to keep 75% of the fare.

No Show for Getaway and Elevate fares seem to match the current conditions: that is, full forfeiture of the fare.

 

[esseeeayeenn]

I don't understand why the Business Saver fares are being reported as new. Whenever I have booked a business fare I have received a pop-up notice telling me that cancellation and refund fees apply.
It has not been possible to select a business fare to which they didn't apply. Is it the capacity to explicitly choose between business and business saver which will be new?

 

[danielt25]

Actually, I mis-read the fees for no show VS the cancellation/refund.

 

[kevrosmith]

You could still continue paying your overpriced Flexis and will have access to row 3, since seat selection is supposed to be included in your fare (cf. the cheapest ones).

I suspect you're confusing two issues here.

Advance Seat selection still seems to be free for Elevate and Freedom fares.

What's not clear is whether Row 3 is classed as a Space+ seat, and I think we'd all agree it will be classed as Space+ and therefore won't be available for selection for free for status members, even on an Elevate or Freedom fare, and this is mostly what is <redacted> everyone off.

It's also not clear what charges are going to be applied for Space+ seats for each fare level. The picture indicates that it'll be more expensive to select a Space+ seat on Getaway fare compared to Freedom fare, but it doesn't indicate the actual price for each level.

 

[cavemanzk]

Trans Tasman looks like VA is trying to copy Air NZ.
Lets hope the SC earn isn't also "enhanced" in future to reflect Air NZ where the cheapest fare classes don't earn SC at all.

At least NZ has the short-haul fares to match the SC earn, when did you last get an $39 fare on VA?


Also NZ's Space+ is free to Gold/Koru and VA Gold....

 

[kevrosmith]

Also NZ's Space+ is free to Gold/Koru and VA Gold....

That sounds promising... hopefully they will keep the alignment of product in this instance, though part of me doubts they will in this instance unfortunately.

 

[mavrick9]

I used to just select a seat down the back, and most of the times was asked if I wanted an exit row instead.

shh.. that's my trick, often you can get a whole row to yourself.


My take on the Business Saver fares, is that corporates etc book them to save cash, and then the pax don't show / late etc. and re-book another flight at full price. VA then factors this extra revenue, it may only be 1% here and there but it adds up. Same as other Y pax that book non-refundable saver fares and don't show, - and re-book. It's extra revenue for the airline.

The extra $$ to FLY AHEAD I don't understand. Perhaps they had too many people booking the last flight of the day for $99 and then turning up at 5pm SYD-MEL wanting to fly ahead. I think the FLY AHEAD is a win-win for both the pax and the airline, the pax get home/away earlier, and the Airline has less potentially late passengers - as delays normally happen as the day goes on.

My understanding of airline revenue, (and I may be wrong) is that : A 737 from SYD-MEL needs to have a revenue target of around $35,000 to make the flight profitable. Some pax pay $99, some $149, some J $800. All averaging to the $35k. Thus any extra few dollars here and there that you can extract adds up. Also the cost savings of a few less Kgs in the hull aswell.

Plus the costs or running checkin, boarding, lounges etc it's a expensive sport. (approx calculation from 2015 A/R) : Qantas' profit is around $6 out of $100 or there abouts. So if you're Gold and have a extra beer in the Qantas Pub really eats into their profit on your one flight.

VA is trying here to reduce benefits that reduce their cost base, and then extract a extra few $$ for things like seat selection. I think they have gone about it the wrong way, it's too complex and it's not clear what their service offering is - are they a budget carrier or a full service carrier ? That seems to depend upon what ticket you buy, and what route you're flying.

VA already have pushed some routes to their TIGER AIR fleet, possibly more to come. I can see a time where VA Fly a couple of A330's PER-SYD/MEL/BNE and 737's SYD-MEL-BNE and the rest of the routes are Tiger Air routes.

Most of the air traffic (pax volume) in Australia is around a 1HR flight - SYD/MEL MEL/ADL MEL/HBA etc - Most people I assume can suck up not being on a "full service" airline for a hour.

 

[anat0l]

You also can't get on to an earlier flight without an empty seat being there anyway. So in this new scenario that seat will continue to remain unsold whether or not a fly ahead person occupies it, I'll have a few more drinks in the lounge at VA's expense while I ponder whether it would in fact be nicer to be over in the QF lounge given the VA USPs have been stripped.

It should be noted also that fly ahead on all fares has the "fees may apply" caveat. My guess is even on those more expensive fares they are preparing to downgrade this experience.

I'd say even with this new fare structure, if you want to try and go home earlier, front up to check-in or the lounge desk and ask. They might just change you.

I was a nothing Red on a dirt cheap ticket. I managed to get a flight changed for free at check-in the other day. It was only the flight just before the one I booked (and itself was a bit delayed), but eh, that's an extra hour for me.

Fly Ahead, I suppose, only "cemented" the benefit, i.e. that you could really do that and there's less subjectivity.

I doubt VA will lose much on your consuming extra booze, but they'll find out soon enough anyway. I mean, if the lounge runs out of booze, they run out for the day, so you go dry. Have they rolled out spirits to all lounges yet?

As for the "fees may apply", that'll be interesting to see. I would have thought that this refers to fare difference, if you need to change to a higher fare family (or fare type). In my mind, this means that Fly Ahead essentially means the same as changing your fare, except that you can do it on the day of departure without a fee (but you still might be up for the fare difference).

Wait, I'm not sure I understand you here.

My reading is that for Domestic Retail fares, Freedom fares still allow full Cancellation (and I assume fee-free to travel bank). The No Show option is more if you don't turn up (either checked-in or not checked-in), and the change for No Show for Freedom fares is actually an improvement. At the moment, No Show for Flexi is complete forfeit, whereas this seems to indicate you'll retain 75% of the fare value for a Freedom fare.

I always book Flex Lima (L) class fares or higher, so this is a slight improvement. I've always had in mind that if I can't fly, I have to make sure I cancel the flight to Travel Bank to retain the full value. At least now I know if I miss that cut-off (flight departure time), I'll still be able to keep 75% of the fare.

No Show for Getaway and Elevate fares seem to match the current conditions: that is, full forfeiture of the fare.

I want to see more clarification on this. Maybe it means that if you don't check-in and don't cancel, you'll get a 75% refund on your fare on the most flexible options. If you check-in and no show, you get squat. It could be better than that, though.

I suspect you're confusing two issues here.

Advance Seat selection still seems to be free for Elevate and Freedom fares.

What's not clear is whether Row 3 is classed as a Space+ seat, and I think we'd all agree it will be classed as Space+ and therefore won't be available for selection for free for status members, even on an Elevate or Freedom fare, and this is mostly what is p!ssing everyone off.

It's also not clear what charges are going to be applied for Space+ seats for each fare level. The picture indicates that it'll be more expensive to select a Space+ seat on Getaway fare compared to Freedom fare, but it doesn't indicate the actual price for each level.

I'm not sure if I've confused anything, but for sure I've kind of assumed that row 3 domestically was not going to be classed as a "Space+" seat that would not be available for seat selection for free for the more expensive fares. There is a bit more space in row 3, but I was naively thinking that it wouldn't be considered a "Space+" seat because the space was merely for the purposes of allowing enough room for the bulkhead row (after all, they don't get space to stretch out under the seat in front of them).

My assumption for "Space+" would have been, for domestic, exit rows; on international, exit rows and the bespoke first five rows of Economy cabin.

 

[SeaWolf]

I'm going to play the Devil's advocate here and say we should wait and see how this all plays out in practice.

I'm a self funded Gold and I'm not happy about some of these changes because I pretty much always book the Saver fares and the new Getaway fare will be a pest since it'll take FlyAhead, Seat Selection and Tier Bonus off me. But (to be optimistic) if Saver fares become Elevate and Getaway become cheaper than Saver (and possibly not as easily available) then I'll be happy to keep the extra money in my pocket.

Everytime VA or QF make changes (and it wasn't that long ago that QF did it) a lot of people get up in arms and talk about changing allegiance to the other. If these changes really are a major loss to you (once we see how they shake out in application) then I can understand people's desire to switch sides, but just keep in mind that QF will inevitably make changes as well and you might well find yourself switching back again and every time you do it you have to go through a period of no status purgatory until you build up your status again.

 

[amaroo]

Welcome to QF World

 

[anat0l]

I'm going to play the Devil's advocate here and say we should wait and see how this all plays out in practice.

See I'm thinking that there isn't going to be too much difference overall to the demographic that VA are trying to capture.

As alluded to further in your post, a lot of people switched to VA from QF, i.e. proverbially taking the red pill. They had to be really annoyed for a reason to leave their Red Roo days behind, and probably told a dozen people to join them in the revolution; why would they go back unless they really, really, really felt they were spat on? That's a loss of pride for them.

Finally, some customers simply won't have a choice, because their travel policies dictate they will fly VA. Some companies have corporate contracts, which you just can't rip up overnight. So come hell or high water, they're staying put.

It's been said quite often that VA has been the choice of carrier for SMEs. I'd like to see how it most affects that demographic, if any effect at all.

I'm a self funded Gold and I'm not happy about some of these changes because I pretty much always book the Saver fares and the new Getaway fare will be a pest since it'll take FlyAhead, Seat Selection and Tier Bonus off me. But (to be optimistic) if Saver fares become Elevate and Getaway become cheaper than Saver (and possibly not as easily available) then I'll be happy to keep the extra money in my pocket.

There'd have to be a dramatic difference in fare to make a move. At the moment, VA is lucky to be $5-$10 less than QF on the cheapest fares on the golden triangle, i.e. immaterial difference in some ways. That includes on Happy Hour deals. I wonder if VA think that JQ is a viable threat to their business.

How they will charge credit cards (we won't find out for a while) will also be interesting, but my money is on a similar scheme to QF, perhaps some 0.2% or so cheaper than QF. Hey, maybe they will surprise us and say, "no more credit card surcharges" (except maybe on Amex and Diners)! I'm sure a change like that will cause everyone to forgive them for whatever inconvenience these new changes will cause.

Everytime VA or QF make changes (and it wasn't that long ago that QF did it) a lot of people get up in arms and talk about changing allegiance to the other. If these changes really are a major loss to you (once we see how they shake out in application) then I can understand people's desire to switch sides, but just keep in mind that QF will inevitably make changes as well and you might well find yourself switching back again and every time you do it you have to go through a period of no status purgatory until you build up your status again.

There's quite a big trend now to maintain VA and QF Gold, and have Platinum in neither.

 

[medhead]

I loved this comment from 'Dean' on the AusBT article, gold !!
"
So let me get this straght. As a Velocity Platinum member:

• If I want to choose a seat, I'll probably have to pay for it.
• If I want something to drink other than the "tea, (instant) coffee, juice or water", I'll still have to pay for it, even though I'm Platinum, even if it's just a Diet Coke and even if I bought a flexible fare, unless I fly within a three hour period on five of the seven days of the week.
• If I want something to eat beyond the measly little snack they provide, I'll have to buy it, again, even if I've already paid $100s more for a flexible fare.
• If I want to watch something on the flight, I'll still need to bring my own screen to watch it on.

This is better than flying with Tiger or Jetstar, how??Seriously Virgin, you have a long way to go before you stop being a low cost carrier!"

Seems rather hyperbolic.
Tiger and Jetstar don't give any free drinks. Qantas only have free drinks 5 days a week. Don't believe Qantas have diet coke. I get plenty of measly snacks on Qantas even when they tell me I'll get dinner. And what is it 60 Qantas aircraft that platinums, even in business, need to bring their own screen to watch something

 

[anat0l]

Qantas only have free drinks 5 days a week. Don't believe Qantas have diet coke.

Well no free alcoholic drinks except for about 5 days a week. All times, non-alcoholic drinks are all free.

No loss on the Diet Coke - it's worse for you than regular Coke is anyway, unless you are diabetic, in which case what are you doing entertaining Coke as an option anyway (or consider Coke Zero).

 

[medhead]

Well no free alcoholic drinks except for about 5 days a week. All times, non-alcoholic drinks are all free.

No loss on the Diet Coke - it's worse for you than regular Coke is anyway, unless you are diabetic, in which case what are you doing entertaining Coke as an option anyway (or consider Coke Zero).

The point remains what is the difference between a platinum on that really expensive flexi fare at 5 pm on Saturday versus anyone at 5 pm on Friday? Not to mention IME Qantas fares have a significant premium (read 25%+) over VA fares. Then even when the booze is free Qantas outright lie to platinums sitting anywhere beyond row 14 about the availability of booze.

At least with VA they don't lie, because you're not getting a drink anyway.

 

[vmile]

thoughts on the risk of them cutting their 1:1.35 SQ KF transfers? surely thats not under threat right?

Seems anything could be 'enhanced' without much notice.

Things that concern me are the apparent gap developing between VA and Velocity, the non availability of J long-haul redemptions on VA metal, EY redemption increased charges and the possibility of EY and SQ getting impatient with VA's ownership changes.(not to mention a really bad web site)

Just to be prudent, (and probably unnecessarily) I have transfered 400000+ VA points to KrisFlyer. Just now.

Not seeing the 'glass half full' of all these recent changes.

 

[williamsf1]

This is getting better and better. Soon there will be plenty of room in the lounges and it will be easier for me to select row 3 on the morning of my flight.

Keep going to QF everyone.

Surely the aim of the passenger is to be able to fly to their destination in a safe and timely manner. The aim of the airline is to facilitate this in a way which also provides a return to shareholders.

All airlines seem to be cutting back on their bennies to bring their costs under control. I see VA as being no different in this regard.

Every time QF enhance their programme we see a flurry of people threatening to move their business to VA. I see this as no different either

I always find it funny the amount of people on here who throw their toys out of the cot and threaten to leave when a change is made.... quite a few on here I am actually supprised they are still flying with either QF or VA after the strongly worded post they had added over the years ..... when the dust settels.. i wonder how many will actually see the grass may not be better on the other side

 

[Bolthead]

I will stay where I am. I don't have the luxury of swapping to QF (or any other airline) as I rely on family pooling to keep my status up to WP and this is at the expense of my wife now being in PS. She was WP once upon of time before my retirement. The only thing I will miss is row 3. Haven't used Fly Ahead since leaving work (3 years ago) and considering I usually only fly domestically from SYD-OOL missing out on row 3 is no biggy either. In terms of convenience I still like the lounge, priority boarding and baggage. I also want to see the upshot of the CC fees and the new prices so I guess time will tell.

 

[Princess Fiona]

Seems rather hyperbolic.
Tiger and Jetstar don't give any free drinks. Qantas only have free drinks 5 days a week. Don't believe Qantas have diet coke. I get plenty of measly snacks on Qantas even when they tell me I'll get dinner. And what is it 60 Qantas aircraft that platinums, even in business, need to bring their own screen to watch something

Oh I don't deny it, it's superbly hyperbolic but it is true.
A VA plat in discount Y gets nothing except lounge access, row 3 and fly ahead and now they won't get either of the last two.