New Zealand Travel Bubble Announcement

[NZflygirl]

This has just shown our politicians are just shifting their goal posts, as I am gravely concerned that our borders will not open as they will once again shift the post to until majority has been vaccinated etc etc.

Back to the topic, it has been a few weeks since we have any news about the Trans-Tasman bubble. Is it really dead? Considering Australia has eliminated the virus virtually across every state and territory and most state borders are reopened, I don't understand what is holding NZ back from opening themselves up for Australia.

In particular when now we have vaccines approved, I just think the AU-NZ bubble should be the first to launch and it can be very safe with testing on arrival/pre-departure etc.

I think it’s because they know Xmas etc is a time with lots of mingling so they’re going to wait for that period to be over. All borders in Oz will be open, Australia will go 28 days without cases and NZ still won’t open at the 28 day mark. That’s how I see it playing out. I really don’t think NSW hotel quarantine worker should count against the entire country when NZ had the November border cluster and nothing much changed. WFH for a day or something. The all of Australia approach is ridiculous. A case in NSW should not affect travel to Perth for example. Hence NZ should have gone state by state months ago.

I saw something about a timeline being publicly announced before Xmas but think that was with regards to the Cook Islands Which is crazy, there’s more work to do there than there is for a bubble to Oz. Both need to happen but I’m still in disbelief at NZs approach or lack of to the Tasman bubble.

I hope everyone from Oz entering NZ requesting an exemption is getting one. Mixing Aussie travellers with other high risk travellers in MIQ hotels doesn’t thrill me either. At least WA allows home quarantine for very low risk areas. MIQ has better uses than quarantine for Oz travellers. I hear horticulture needs the space. What about international students etc.

Airports and airlines are ready to go I’m sure, it’s the govt that’s the hold up. Ardern apparently doesn’t like the fact some states like NSW will aim to stay open if there’s an outbreak somewhere or the hotspot approach from the NT and QLD. Also mentioned in an article about wastewater testing which 99.9% of the time represents a persistent shedder. She should know that by now. Also unhappy at the definition of a hotspot by Feds. Really scraping for reasons not to open. NZ doesn’t have land borders to contend with so they literally just have the airports, and at least they’re international ones so a much easier operation.

Even when the border does open, for me it will be an anticlimax. Like someone saying happy birthday when your birthday was 4 months ago.

I just can’t see the logic, science or progress on this issue.

 

[HappyFlyerFamily]

I think it’s because they know Xmas etc is a time with lots of mingling so they’re going to wait for that period to be over. All borders in Oz will be open, Australia will go 28 days without cases and NZ still won’t open at the 28 day mark. That’s how I see it playing out. I really don’t think NSW hotel quarantine worker should count against the entire country when NZ had the November border cluster and nothing much changed. WFH for a day or something. The all of Australia approach is ridiculous. A case in NSW should not affect travel to Perth for example. Hence NZ should have gone state by state months ago.

I saw something about a timeline being publicly announced before Xmas but think that was with regards to the Cook Islands Which is crazy, there’s more work to do there than there is for a bubble to Oz. Both need to happen but I’m still in disbelief at NZs approach or lack of to the Tasman bubble.

I hope everyone from Oz entering NZ requesting an exemption is getting one. Mixing Aussie travellers with other high risk travellers in MIQ hotels doesn’t thrill me either. At least WA allows home quarantine for very low risk areas. MIQ has better uses than quarantine for Oz travellers. I hear horticulture needs the space. What about international students etc.

Airports and airlines are ready to go I’m sure, it’s the govt that’s the hold up. Ardern apparently doesn’t like the fact some states like NSW will aim to stay open if there’s an outbreak somewhere or the hotspot approach from the NT and QLD. Also mentioned in an article about wastewater testing which 99.9% of the time represents a persistent shedder. She should know that by now. Also unhappy at the definition of a hotspot by Feds. Really scraping for reasons not to open. NZ doesn’t have land borders to contend with so they literally just have the airports, and at least they’re international ones so a much easier operation.

Even when the border does open, for me it will be an anticlimax. Like someone saying happy birthday when your birthday was 4 months ago.

I just can’t see the logic, science or progress on this issue.

Well the underlying logic is how much NZ can trust Australia’s system.

I think how many infected positive cases arise in the community from border/quarantine hotel settings would have been an issue where it did not meet NZ’s current standards.

It’s difficult for NZ to trust Australia’s word because implementation for mandatory quarantine is performed by 8 separate jurisdiction, so really 8 different methods unfortunately.

In a low risk environment, 8 different ways may not be such a big deal but in reality NZ is going for no risk and in this environment 8 different ways might be just a bit too much a step to take.

NZ probably trusts Australia’s international border decision-making but if it doesn’t then this is another factor. Once you got quarantine free arrivals the accepting country basically assumes all the flaws of the departure country (And the flaws of third countries the departing country accepted quarantine free)

 

[NZflygirl]

Well the underlying logic is how much NZ can trust Australia’s system.

I think how many infected positive cases arise in the community from border/quarantine hotel settings would have been an issue where it did not meet NZ’s current standards.

It’s difficult for NZ to trust Australia’s word because implementation for mandatory quarantine is performed by 8 separate jurisdiction, so really 8 different methods unfortunately.

In a low risk environment, 8 different ways may not be such a big deal but in reality NZ is going for no risk and in this environment 8 different ways might be just a bit too much a step to take.

NZ probably trusts Australia’s international border decision-making but if it doesn’t then this is another factor. Once you got quarantine free arrivals the accepting country basically assumes all the flaws of the departure country (And the flaws of third countries the departing country accepted quarantine free)

I think NZs actually had more border workers test positive than any individual state or territory in Oz (excl VIC and they have a new system now). Even their own epidemiologists are unhappy about it. Their Auckland cluster was far worse than SA & SA will have gone from zero to peak and back to zero within a month. NZ also busses people to places for exercise which while nice increases the risks. Oz travellers are at same hotel as high risk country travellers. There’s no protection or consideration by the NZ govt for COVID free travellers from Oz.

All the states and territories within Australia have the same issue of needing to trust each others borders and HQ systems. States have acted like mini countries. The only reason NZ can hold out is because it’s a separate country. There’s no obligation to open borders like there is within Oz. That’s not a reason based in health though.

 

[justinbrett]

I have a conspiracy theory that it is Australia that’s stopping thr AU->NZ direction of the bubble but Jacinta is happy to take the blame for it.

For this to proceed, Australia will have to lift the ban on international travel. Even if they attempt to say “you can only travel NZ”, NZ has no legal right to stop Australians departing AKL for a third country. Those desperate to get out will use this method which will put further strain on hotel quarantine.

 

[luxury-lizard]

I have a conspiracy theory that it is Australia that’s stopping thr AU->NZ direction of the bubble but Jacinta is happy to take the blame for it.

For this to proceed, Australia will have to lift the ban on international travel. Even if they attempt to say “you can only travel NZ”, NZ has no legal right to stop Australians departing AKL for a third country. Those desperate to get out will use this method which will put further strain on hotel quarantine.

I find it hard to buy this logic - permits to travel overseas are much easier to obtain than even a month ago (at least according to another thread on this forum) - so why would a traveller go via NZ. No matter what, they would need to quarantine on arrival back into Australia - if they are dual NZ/AU citizens then they could re-enter via NZ but would also need to quarantine.

I would think NZ has a lot more to gain by opening their border to Australia - as I presume more Aussie tourists visit NZ than the other way around. A much more "credible" conspiracy theory is that Australia wants to keep it tourist dollars in Australia.

 

[drron]

I have a conspiracy theory that it is Australia that’s stopping thr AU->NZ direction of the bubble but Jacinta is happy to take the blame for it.

For this to proceed, Australia will have to lift the ban on international travel. Even if they attempt to say “you can only travel NZ”, NZ has no legal right to stop Australians departing AKL for a third country. Those desperate to get out will use this method which will put further strain on hotel quarantine.

Though checking flights AKL-SIN the cheapest in Y return is ~ $A2500.Then add in the 2 week quarantine in AKL or Australia and I really don't see too many being that desperate to use that loophole.

 

[justinbrett]

In that case why hasn’t the government dropped the ban?

 

[jakeseven7]

In that case why hasn’t the government dropped the ban?

Well this was discussed on ABC radio yesterday and they said one of the underlying issues is that NZ doesn't want to be the bad guy when they have to slam their borders shut when there is another (inevitable) community transmission case in Australia as there will be another breach at some point.

So what needs to happen first is for NZ to accept, just like them, that there will be the odd community transmission case in AU and they can't go yanking their borders up and down like WA and QLD everytime it happens....

 

[justinbrett]

Well this was discussed on ABC radio yesterday and they said one of the underlying issues is that NZ doesn't want to be the bad guy when they have to slam their borders shut when there is another (inevitable) community transmission case in Australia as there will be another breach at some point.

So what needs to happen first is for NZ to accept, just like them, that there will be the odd community transmission case in AU and they can't go yanking their borders up and down like WA and QLD everytime it happens....

I meant why hasn’t the (Australian) government dropped the outwards ban

 

[drron]

This last bit of conversation piqued my interest into NZ travel restrictions.I knew they were able to leave but getting back into NZ is complicated.
There is an effective limitation on OS arrivals.You have to book a MIQ certificate up to 3 months in advance to book your spot in a quarantine hotel.The numbers are limited by the number of rooms available.

International travel requirements

International travel has changed. Find the updated requirements of international travel. There are extra steps to take before you leave and before you return.

www.airnewzealand.com.au

Isolation and quarantine | Ministry of Business, Innovation & Employment

www.miq.govt.nz

hence this effectively cuts off the ability for Australians to use NZ as an escape hatch until NZ agrees to a bubble.But it does make anyone using it, if NZ does make a Quarantine free exemption for arrivals from Australia, very risky as no quarantee you can get back to Australia with arrivals from elsewhere into NZ or Australia limited.

 

[glasszon]

NZ Herald published an article today saying no trans-tasman travel bubble until Feb next year at the earliest, I imagine it is unlikely such a bubble would be in place before the vaccine arrives in Australia.

 

[justinbrett]

NZ Herald published an article today saying no trans-tasman travel bubble until Feb next year at the earliest, I imagine it is unlikely such a bubble would be in place before the vaccine arrives in Australia.

I wouldn’t put much faith in that article, they also left Victoria out out of the list of bubble states. They use phrases like “The herald understands“ which is code for there is no identifiable source. It may as well say “we reckon...”

If it wasn’t for SA it probably would have been open by now. Once we hit 28 days as a country there will be immense pressure within NZ to open it. Even a WA style home quarantine would be better than delaying it.

 

[jakeseven7]

Once we hit 28 days as a country there will be immense pressure within NZ to open it. Even a WA style home quarantine would be better than delaying it.

Immense pressure from who do you think....? I doubt the AU gov will go hard.....

 

[justinbrett]

Immense pressure from who do you think....? I doubt the AU gov will go hard.....

No, from inside NZ. They have the same issue with tourism as QLD. The businesses in Queenstown are already quite vocal.

 

[HappyFlyerFamily]

Immense pressure from who do you think....? I doubt the AU gov will go hard.....

Its possible from NZers.....they might have Aussie cousins they might not mind visiting or asking to visit.

Additionally Australia is at 1 active local case (who acquired it from hotel quarantine)

 

[justinbrett]

I will point out I did say “within NZ” in my post

 

[jakeseven7]

Its possible from NZers.....they might have Aussie cousins they might not mind visiting or asking to visit.

Additionally Australia is at 1 active local case (who acquired it from hotel quarantine)

Possibly, but they seem quite happy so far barricaded on their island with a few outbreaks now and then....

I somehow doubt it

 

[justinbrett]

Possibly, but they seem quite happy so far barricaded on their island with a few outbreaks now and then....

I somehow doubt it

That’s what they said about WA

 

[love_the_life]

The New Zealand prime minister Jacinda Ardern has said her cabinet has agreed to an Australia travel bubble that will open in the first quarter of 2021. (From The Guardian)

Australia news live: drug decriminalisation bill to be introduced in ACT, while Fraser Island to reopen to visitors after fire

Greg Hunt expects to have early assessment of two leading vaccines by end of January; New Zealand cabinet agrees to trans-Tasman travel bubble proposal; storms forecast to intensify in parts of Queensland and NSW. This blog is now closed

www.theguardian.com

 

[jakeseven7]

The New Zealand prime minister Jacinda Ardern has said her cabinet has agreed to an Australia travel bubble that will open in the first quarter of 2021. (From The Guardian)

Australia news live: drug decriminalisation bill to be introduced in ACT, while Fraser Island to reopen to visitors after fire

Greg Hunt expects to have early assessment of two leading vaccines by end of January; New Zealand cabinet agrees to trans-Tasman travel bubble proposal; storms forecast to intensify in parts of Queensland and NSW. This blog is now closed

www.theguardian.com

Will believe it when the first plane touches down