Ok, so why does everyone continue to bag Qantas?

[Kiwi Flyer]

Some of my posts probably come across as bagging Qantas. I don't think it is the top class airline it would have you believe, although is still better than many (eg us-based airlines spring to mind).

I have flown many airlines all around the world and there are quite a few that are much better than Qantas.

The issues I have with Qantas are the lack of consistency and that with a bit of effort they could easily do so much better but choose not to. As for the frequent flyer program - other than status benefits it is a joke.

 

[sailor]

I think Kiwi Flyer has hit the nail on the head

As for the frequent flyer program - other than status benefits it is a joke.

The FF programme has been so devalued by the brutal changes to it (80% increases in points required for upgrades etc etc etc) that it's certainly left a bad taste in my mouth - and I would guess it would be the same quite a few others.

When a company offers a product that is positioned to reward its most loyal customers and then treats them with distain by failing to fulfil that promise, or even worse, devaluing the perceived worth of that product (and thus the loyal customers perception of their value to that company), then the whole brand is affected negatively and any small issues that might have been overlooked become big issues in the disgruntled customers' minds.

I foresee in years to come, QFF will be case studied in universities on how not to run a loyalty/rewards programme.

 

[Skyring]

I foresee in years to come, QFF will be case studied in universities on how not to run a loyalty/rewards programme.

Could have been worse - just ask any members of the Golden Wing Club!

 

[munitalP]

Wow, I never expected such debate on the issue when I posted it! I read the comments here so far and agree with some and very much disagree with others. The frequent flyer program does need work, I'll give you that, however, my frequent flyer points (I collect on flights as well as on Amex and Visa) which I only use for upgrades (therefore cannot comment on booking flights) works for me quite OK. The only time in recent memory my points did not buy me an upgrade was a LON/SIN/MEL flight - there were (according to Qf) 12 or so premium customers unable to upgrade on that particular flight, other than that, if using points for an upgrade, I have never had a problem (maybe I'm just a lucky person oh and try never to use heavily discounted fares):mrgreen:

To quote Kiwi Flyer

"The FF programme has been so devalued by the brutal changes to it (80% increases in points required for upgrades etc etc etc) that it's certainly left a bad taste in my mouth - and I would guess it would be the same quite a few others."

I feel this comment is somewhat correct, however, what leaves a bad taste in my mouth is not the points increase - this should be expected over time, nothing stays stationary - look at the price of petrol - but when I can't buy an upgrade because of people who rape the frequent flyer points schemes such as business owners who pay massive accounts off on AMEX (for example) collecting X2 points, not being frequent flyers of any status, and taking seats away from the true "frequent flyers" who's bums are in seats once or twice a week for their entire working life! (I'll get off my soap box now)...

So, as far as other frequent flyer schemes are concerned, 80% of my travel is in Australia, 10% is into Europe,8% into the USA, 2% Aisa / Pacific including our pals over the ditch, I am happy where I am (see first post), and am sure there are better schemes - as noted by others, Cathay, AA etc... but, I'll stay where I am, and make the most of what we have - a good airline, a slightly better than average FF scheme, and an excellent status reward system.

 

[Expon]

I like being treated with a reasonable amount of respect (once they know the emerald / platinum status)....

You shouldn't have to be Emerald / Platinum to be treated with respect....

 

[Skyring]

I like being treated with a reasonable amount of respect (once they know the emerald / platinum status)...

It should be a reasonable amount of respect for all passengers, and an unreasonable amount for the top flyers.

 

[simongr]

Certainly an interesting topic and a good thread to capture a number of views (maybe I should email a link to Geoff Dixon when I complain about the 767 fit out )

Just a couple of points on your umm points

I feel this comment is somewhat correct, however, what leaves a bad taste in my mouth is not the points increase - this should be expected over time, nothing stays stationary - look at the price of petrol -

Actually I would disagree with this. We earn points based on the class of travel, distance flown, status (and to a lesser extent on the fare paid). As such over time the cost of the ticket increases - but there is no need for the number of points required to redeem a ticket to move in line with fare increases. If the deal was (like REX) 1 free segment for every 9 segments flown - it wouldnt matter how the fare costs moved. The same underlying principle should apply to FF points redemption.

You could argue that there should be some matching (i.e. you shouldnt earn miles when fares are cheap and get paid out when fares are high) but the marginal increase or differential over time would be small.

but when I can't buy an upgrade because of people who rape the frequent flyer points schemes such as business owners who pay massive accounts off on AMEX (for example) collecting X2 points, not being frequent flyers of any status, and taking seats away from the true "frequent flyers" who's bums are in seats once or twice a week for their entire working life! (I'll get off my soap box now)...

I guess you just have to be happy that if they truly are no status flyers then they dont have access to as many redmeption seats as status flyers.

 

[NM]

It should be a reasonable amount of respect for all passengers, and an unreasonable amount for the top flyers.

I sometimes feel the respect paid to me is "unreasonable" :evil: . And that mostly comes from my kids :shock: .

 

[JohnK]

I feel this comment is somewhat correct, however, what leaves a bad taste in my mouth is not the points increase - this should be expected over time, nothing stays stationary - look at the price of petrol - but when I can't buy an upgrade because of people who rape the frequent flyer points schemes such as business owners who pay massive accounts off on AMEX (for example) collecting X2 points, not being frequent flyers of any status, and taking seats away from the true "frequent flyers" who's bums are in seats once or twice a week for their entire working life!

That is a very good point.

How much have credit card points affected the recent enhancements to QF's FFP? I guess one of the reasons is the number of outstanding points in FF accounts. People are getting smarter and are constantly looking to maximise credit card points earned. As FF points liability increases for QF we should be expecting more enhancements to the FFP!

 

[Yada Yada]

Some of my posts probably come across as bagging Qantas. I don't think it is the top class airline it would have you believe, although is still better than many (eg us-based airlines spring to mind).

I have flown many airlines all around the world and there are quite a few that are much better than Qantas.

The issues I have with Qantas are the lack of consistency and that with a bit of effort they could easily do so much better but choose not to. As for the frequent flyer program - other than status benefits it is a joke.

I think Kiwi Flyer's post sums up my feelings on this subject perfectly. QF is not a bad airline, however compared with others (e.g. CX, SQ) it certainly is not top notch.

I find QF's customer service very patchy. I've had good and bad experiences, and lots of variation inbetween. It is not consistent, and is the thing that drives me to the opposition domestically. The service culture seems so stand-offish and sometimes "take it or leave it". The attitude is better in business class but it should be good in every cabin.

 

[kpc]

Some of my posts probably come across as bagging Qantas. I don't think it is the top class airline it would have you believe, although is still better than many (eg us-based airlines spring to mind).

I have flown many airlines all around the world and there are quite a few that are much better than Qantas.

The issues I have with Qantas are the lack of consistency and that with a bit of effort they could easily do so much better but choose not to. As for the frequent flyer program - other than status benefits it is a joke.

I think Kiwi Flyer's post sums up my feelings on this subject perfectly. QF is not a bad airline, however compared with others (e.g. CX, SQ) it certainly is not top notch.

I find QF's customer service very patchy. I've had good and bad experiences, and lots of variation inbetween. It is not consistent, and is the thing that drives me to the opposition domestically. The service culture seems so stand-offish and sometimes "take it or leave it". The attitude is better in business class but it should be good in every cabin.

I completely agree with these 2 posts: Whilst QF is not bad, there are other airlines that are much better...sure there are also airlines that are a lot worse than QF, but we should be comparing QF with the better airlines, not the worse ones

 

[Kiwi Flyer]

Ha - after posting that I did have a flight with much better crew which reminded me how much of a difference crew can make. However, even so there are many aspects that are not top notch in my view.

 

[maninblack]

1. They state on thier web site that AVOD is on ALL flights to London, Hong Kong. NO TRUE. QF29 only every 2nd flight.

Not just this, their whole website is full of innaccuracy/dishonesty :!: Go to, Flying with us/Travel classes/International Business. A pretty, Flash presentation comes up showing your International business service with QF. Nowhere is it shown just what sort of features you will get when travelling on a 743, 763, or 737, which fly a large number of international services.

 

[acampbel]

May as well contribute to this interesting debate :-

Yes - the FF points earned per segment (leaving aside cabin/status bonus) are basically stable, so the burn rates should be too. I think Qantas have realised that with all the points opportunities around they have created a monster and like insurance companies are now looking at how to minimise "claims". They will continue to screw down the value and opportunities for rewards until the number of people abandoning Qantas starts to hurt. Therefore they must expect at least a little verbal grief from loyal customers who remember the "good-old-days".

Speaking of points earned ... .I think the Virgin formula has some merit :- 6 x $ spend is probably a fairer metric than some clumsy fare-class system that seems to throw up some anomolies. Sure the minimum 1000 points domestically is a plus, but I think Qantas should move to a formula of 5 x $ spend plus reduced status bonus (the First and Business customers would already be getting big numbers). They could then justifiably move burn rates in line with airfares if the latter changes significantly

I also think the points earned by some people with corporate cards is obscene, but in effect they are robbing their own company to pay for airfares as a hidden fringe benefit. I think the best way to deal with this is for the banks to be required to limit the points earnable per annum (many already do) and perhaps even report high earning accounts to the ATO similar to the way they report large transactions. [No doubt some accountant will be along to shoot holes in this .... ]


As for the Qantas service - I think it suffered from complacency in the past but is now fairly good. The trouble is that the opposition is often better, so Qantas is playing catch-up in many areas. As a 100% economy purchaser (and 99% traveller) I don't expect too much, and to be honest wouldn't want to turn into a whinging gob****e just because me or my company pays to not sit amongst the riff-raff. I am lucky enough to have one of those ridiculously cheap Qantas Club memberships (yes - you can all boo now) but at least I pay for it myself. This and the Silver Status gives me all the privilege I deserve ... and then some!

I also do the right thing and travel Virgin domestically where the airfare difference is too great to slide around the BFOD policy. This gives me both a comparison point to legitimately use for feedback to both airlines, and helps to "keep the coughs honest". I think many contributers to this thread (and others) are informed travellers rather than Qantas haters.


Soooo..... I think people here bag Qantas because they want it to do better, because they either want or have to fly with them. Of course some of it will be unreasonable but I would hope that Qantas takes note of the general sentiments and uses the feedback for positive change.


Time for coffee,


Andrew

.

 

[NM]

I also think the points earned by some people with corporate cards is obscene, but in effect they are robbing their own company to pay for airfares as a hidden fringe benefit. I think the best way to deal with this is for the banks to be required to limit the points earnable per annum (many already do) and perhaps even report high earning accounts to the ATO similar to the way they report large transactions. [No doubt some accountant will be along to shoot holes in this .... ]

There is an easy way for Qantas to limit the problem with the large points balances earned by frequent debting rather than frequent flying. Just set an annual limit of 50,000 points transferred into any QF FF account. That should cover any reasonable personal spend. Perhaps make it coughulative so that if not used one year you get the remainder added to the next year's 50K limit.

Then they may be able to focus on rewarding their loyal flying customers and not focusing on selling as many FF points as they can to the CC providers who use them reward frequent spending.

Now I know there would be a lot of people who would not like that move, but as a frequent flyer I think it may help QF to re-focus on their core business and loyal customers. In the meantime, while QF sell more FF points to CC providers than they give to loyal customers for actually purchasing airfares and flying with them and hence QF's focus is on spenders and not flyers, my AAdvantage miles balance will continue to grow.

In my opinion, Qantas offers a superior in-flight service to AA, but AA knows better how to reward loyalty.

 

[v8Statesman]

My 2c worth. QF FF points should be exactly that. Frequent Flyer Points. Credit companies should set up a "Fly Buy" type system to give card holders flights.

Or at the very least more differentiation between rewards flight like they do with economy. (X and T fares). I would like to see an easier way for WP's to get Business awards.

 

[NM]

I would like to see an easier way for WP's to get Business awards.

Perhaps they could make U and Z only available to Gold or Platinum (and OneWorld Sapphire and Emerald) members. Now wouldn't that upset the apple cart .

 

[v8Statesman]

Perhaps they could make U and Z only available to Gold or Platinum (and OneWorld Sapphire and Emerald) members. Now wouldn't that upset the apple cart .

Maybe, but the oranges over here would be having a celebration

 

[NM]

Maybe, but the oranges over here would be having a celebration

Some might even say the program was going pear-shaped .

 

[v8Statesman]

Some might even say the program was going pear-shaped .

Moan , but seriously I think allowing U and Z to anyone with a OW status (yes even PS) would be a great start. After all, we are the ones (to varying degrees) that are supporting the airline!