Oneworld Classic Flight Reward Discussion - The Definitive Thread

[There'sOnlyOneJimmy]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

I don't think that's quite right Jimmy. The direct line distance between cities of surface sectors has to be included in the 56,000 km limit but surface segments don't count in the 16 segment limit. You are restricted to 16 actual flights.

Although i would usually just take your word for it Vetrade (based on the high quality of your posts, and your team affiliation...), I took a look through the rule book, and found the following:
13.2.4 A Reward Flight Itinerary must contain no more than 16 Segments (including any Surface Segments)

I totally agree with you Vetrade that rule 14.5.5 refers only to including the distance of the Surface Segment and not to including it in the Sector Count, but I think that 13.2.4 is still going to cover it.
TOOJ

 

[ozflier]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

Admire your persistence, Ozflier. Have had a couple of cracks at incorporating South America into a OW RTW Award myself but gave up in frustration at how hard it was to piece an itinerary together. Before I get tempted to have another try, are you travelling solo or were you able to get J seats for 2 - I found that on the rare occasions J awards were available, it was only 1 seat?

Edit: Ignore that Q. Should have read the last para of your post - rookie mistake.

Most of the transpac J award seats came up one at a time excluding LAX-BNE.

In South America with LAN and TAM, J awards usually they came up one at a time ( eg SCL to from Easter island) . Remember many all intra country flights are one class only.

The AA seats ( MGA-MIA-LAX came as 2 )

Remember , with the correct routings you can travel inside South America with other OW carriers eg EZE to GRU and vv daily on Qatar Airlines.

With an itinerary like mine, it was sensible have 2 separate bookings not a joint one.

Just to clarify, there were 2 Star Alliance sectors included ( Iquitos to Panama City and Panama City to Managua) as these were unavailable on OW carriers.

 

[vetrade]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

Although i would usually just take your word for it Vetrade (based on the high quality of your posts, and your team affiliation...), I took a look through the rule book, and found the following:
13.2.4 A Reward Flight Itinerary must contain no more than 16 Segments (including any Surface Segments)

I totally agree with you Vetrade that rule 14.5.5 refers only to including the distance of the Surface Segment and not to including it in the Sector Count, but I think that 13.2.4 is still going to cover it.
TOOJ

You are absolutely correct Jimmy. Thanks for setting me right.

 

[madrooster]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

Although i would usually just take your word for it Vetrade (based on the high quality of your posts, and your team affiliation...), I took a look through the rule book, and found the following:
13.2.4 A Reward Flight Itinerary must contain no more than 16 Segments (including any Surface Segments)

I totally agree with you Vetrade that rule 14.5.5 refers only to including the distance of the Surface Segment and not to including it in the Sector Count, but I think that 13.2.4 is still going to cover it.
TOOJ

Surface sectors are counted in the 16 sectors. These are actually issued dummy coupons in the ticket.

 

[dumdidum]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

Anyone know how the baggage allowances work on a Oneworld award? Seems for some legs (I'm in Economy) they allow one piece and two pieces in others.

Wouldn't the weight allowance be different depending on the airline, or does it just follow Qantas (i.e. 30kg) guidelines seeing as I've booked it on the Qantas website, despite using a number of the Oneworld alliance members

 

[ComeFlyWithMe]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

Anyone know how the baggage allowances work on a Oneworld award? Seems for some legs (I'm in Economy) they allow one piece and two pieces in others.

Wouldn't the weight allowance be different depending on the airline, or does it just follow Qantas (i.e. 30kg) guidelines seeing as I've booked it on the Qantas website, despite using a number of the Oneworld alliance members

If it's anything like the OneWorld Explorer RTW fares, baggage is on a per sector basis. Not sure if awards are different as I've never checked in more than one bag per person.

 

[adelee]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

Hi all. Just wanted to provide an update on my oneworld award (2 adults plus 1 x infant in J). Things have changed (again!) since my last post, as some newly released fares (and some further reading about fuel fines) prompted us to change our itinerary. Suffice to say, I'm glad we have a few points stored up for the inevitable 3,500 point change fees and a few hours to set aside with the QF call centre!

By some miracle, 2 x CX reward seats from ADL - HKG - JFK opened up for the dates we planned to start our trip to JNB (early December). So we decided to snap these up and then take a flight across the pond to Europe a week later with one of the many carriers who service that route (certainly no problems finding a fare there). We decided on Iberia, heading from JFK-MAD and bypassing LHR all together (our trip has changed focus from Scandinavia to the 'warmer' winter areas in Spain, before heading through France, Switzerland and Italy to Amsterdam. We'll fly out as scheduled from AMS - HKG - MEL on 30 December.

In making these changes, we canned the ADL-SYD-JNB-CPT-LHR-CPH routing with Qantas and British airways, avoided a stack of fuel fines and saved ourselves a whopping $1800. Our taxes now stand at only $481 each!!! (plus $201 for infant) Plus we get to enjoy wonderful CX J service on 4 long haul flights and put our fuel fine savings towards some amazing accommodation and meals in Spain and New York.

I should mention that with our CX routing, a stopover in HGK was necessary on the ADL-HKG-JFK route. As VeTrade pointed out awhile back, CX won't allow you to book flights to and from HKG as just a transit (the earlier flight was there, but the computer wouldn't accept it for us). However, we got really lucky on the way back. Our flight from AMS-HKG is scheduled to arrive on 31 December at 7 am, and we then fly HKG - MEL on 1 Jan. However, the flight on 1 Jan leaves at 0.05 am, and is less than 24 hours after we arrive - so while the computer accepted the combination, technically, it's just a transit for us!

We now have just one more change to go - our mileage being well under 31,000 miles and with a number of segments to spare, we have decided to tack on a MEL-BME-PER-ADL trip for a week in June 16 (6 months after we start the initial trip, and 1 month before my daughter turns 2 and we have to pay for a seat for her). Obviously I'll have to wait and see with availability, but I don't think it will be a problem (and hopefully the fuel fines will be minimal). This should be a great week away at a wonderful time of the year, and to us it seems a good use of our segments given the prices Qantas charge for J on that route. So final trip will be:
ADL-HKG (STOPOVER)
HKG-JFK (STOPOVER)
JFK-MAD (STOPOVER)
MAD-AMS (SURFACE SECTOR)
AMS-HKG-MEL (STOPOVER)
(PAY OWN WAY BACK TO ADL)
MEL-BME (STOPOVER)
BME-PER-ADL

Thanks again to everyone who has helped this far.

 

[prozac]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

Excuse me for forgetting adelee, yours (and the replies) have been so many interesting posts, but how many points did this itinerary cost? Any F or all J?

 

[There'sOnlyOneJimmy]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

....
We now have just one more change to go - our mileage being well under 31,000 miles and with a number of segments to spare, we have decided to tack on a MEL-BME-PER-ADL trip for a week in June 16 (6 months after we start the initial trip, and 1 month before my daughter turns 2 and we have to pay for a seat for her). Obviously I'll have to wait and see with availability, but I don't think it will be a problem (and hopefully the fuel fines will be minimal). This should be a great week away at a wonderful time of the year, and to us it seems a good use of our segments given the prices Qantas charge for J on that route. So final trip will be:
ADL-HKG (STOPOVER)
HKG-JFK (STOPOVER)
JFK-MAD (STOPOVER)
MAD-AMS (SURFACE SECTOR)
AMS-HKG-MEL (STOPOVER)
(PAY OWN WAY BACK TO ADL)
MEL-BME (STOPOVER)
BME-PER-ADL

Thanks again to everyone who has helped this far.

I'm not sure that you're going to be able to tack on the proposed "Domestic Jaunt", Adelee.
From my (admittedly novice) reading of the rule book, once you stop in MEL on the way back to OZ (AMS-HKG-MEL), your itinerary is immediately terminated.

Refer the following rule extract:
14.3.5 A Classic Flight Reward Itinerary must contain no more than one departure from the city or country of first departure on that Itinerary.

Note the phrase "City or Country"...

I'm happy to stand corrected by any of the more knowledgable contributors here (it wouldn't be the first time that happened...;-), but the rule seems pretty plain on the face of it.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but I hope you enjoy the rest of your trip.
TOOJ#3

 

[Danger]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

Anyone know how the baggage allowances work on a Oneworld award? Seems for some legs (I'm in Economy) they allow one piece and two pieces in others.

Wouldn't the weight allowance be different depending on the airline, or does it just follow Qantas (i.e. 30kg) guidelines seeing as I've booked it on the Qantas website, despite using a number of the Oneworld alliance members

if your itinerary involves the Americas then the piece system applies. If it doesn't involve the Americas then it's the weight system. If it's the former then you'd be entitled to two pieces at 23kgs as a minimum.

If it's anything like the OneWorld Explorer RTW fares, baggage is on a per sector basis. Not sure if awards are different as I've never checked in more than one bag per person.

All oneworld Explorer fares permit, as a minimum, two pieces at 23kgs. Additional allowances may apply depending on oneworld status and each airline's individual benefits but this is the bare minimum.

 

[dumdidum]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

if your itinerary involves the Americas then the piece system applies. If it doesn't involve the Americas then it's the weight system. If it's the former then you'd be entitled to two pieces at 23kgs as a minimum.

All oneworld Explorer fares permit, as a minimum, two pieces at 23kgs. Additional allowances may apply depending on oneworld status and each airline's individual benefits but this is the bare minimum.

My booking page says:

Sydney to Johannesburg - 2 pieces
Capetown to Dubai - 2 pieces
Abu Dhabi to Stockholm - 1 piece (Air Berlin)
Stockholm to New York - 1 piece (Air Berlin)
New York to Cusco - 2 pieces
Lima to Sydney - 2 pieces

 

[vetrade]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

I'm not sure that you're going to be able to tack on the proposed "Domestic Jaunt", Adelee.
From my (admittedly novice) reading of the rule book, once you stop in MEL on the way back to OZ (AMS-HKG-MEL), your itinerary is immediately terminated.

Refer the following rule extract:
14.3.5 A Classic Flight Reward Itinerary must contain no more than one departure from the city or country of first departure on that Itinerary.

Note the phrase "City or Country"...

I'm happy to stand corrected by any of the more knowledgable contributors here (it wouldn't be the first time that happened...;-), but the rule seems pretty plain on the face of it.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but I hope you enjoy the rest of your trip.
TOOJ#3

Might try my luck again Jimmy..............

It's not uncommon for people to have domestic legs at both ends of their itinerary without breaking the rules. Rule 14.3.5. means that once you arrive back in the city you departed from (i.e. ADE in Adelee's case) your trip is deemed to be concluded and you can't take any more domestic legs. The rules don't have any restriction on the number of domestic flights you can have at either end of the trip (other than being subject to the 16 segments / 35,000 mile restrictions). For example one could easily fly ADE - MEL -SYD - LAX outbound and then HKG - BNE - MEL - ADE inbound, without any problems, but you wouldn't be able to, say, have your initial departure from ADE and then return to ADE and THEN try and add some other domestic destination from there. Adelee will be taking her Aus domestic flights before returning to ADE so, subject to availability, there's no restriction on her doing this.

With regard to the "no more than one departure from the........country of first departure" this just means you can't ,say, depart Australia and then return to Australia (even to a different city than you departed from) and THEN depart Australia again to some other country - this is obviously to prevent people from booking a OW RTW fare and then using it to take several smaller OS trips such as flying from Aus to Europe and back, then a month later flying Aus to the US and back and then a month or two later flying to HKG and back etc. Adelee won't be departing Aus more than once so she's OK.

 

[Danger]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

My booking page says:

Sydney to Johannesburg - 2 pieces
Capetown to Dubai - 2 pieces
Abu Dhabi to Stockholm - 1 piece (Air Berlin)
Stockholm to New York - 1 piece (Air Berlin)
New York to Cusco - 2 pieces
Lima to Sydney - 2 pieces

I suspect that information is simply reproducing the standard baggage rules for a particular airline and flight; it's not taking into account the broader itinerary which, in this case, involves the Americas.

 

[There'sOnlyOneJimmy]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

Might try my luck again Jimmy..............

Thanks Vetrade, I see where I got tangled up with the interpretation of that one.

For those following at home, the scoreline in this weeks game of "How do these !@#$% rules work" is Vetrade 1 : Jimmy 1 - and I think I'm lucky to get away with a draw...

 

[robd]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

Thanks Vetrade, I see where I got tangled up with the interpretation of that one.

For those following at home, the scoreline in this weeks game of "How do these !@#$% rules work" is Vetrade 1 : Jimmy 1 - and I think I'm lucky to get away with a draw...

I for one am enjoying the game

 

[serfty]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

I suspect that information is simply reproducing the standard baggage rules for a particular airline and flight; it's not taking into account the broader itinerary which, in this case, involves the Americas.

Certainly for xONEx fares, the minimum baggage rules are specific: (http://www.oneworld.com/documents/1...ules+doc/8ed08d57-69e3-4d8b-bd69-d346ec820edf)

Baggage regulations

Two free pieces of 23 kilos each shall be permitted. Additional allowances may apply. Refer to individual carrier websites.

Other than that, unless so specified in the fare rules (as per xONEx), in relation to IATA 302, I have seen reference to the DOT exception for Around the World or Circle fares to be only applicable if the furthermost stopover port in the routing from the origin is within the USA.

If that is the case, in relation to this routing, it is NYC - if London had been involved then it may indeed be individual journies for allowance: http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=syd-jn...,auh-syd,cuz-syd,lim-syd,syd-arn&MC=SYD&DU=mi

 

[Danger]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

I suspect that information is simply reproducing the standard baggage rules for a particular airline and flight; it's not taking into account the broader itinerary which, in this case, involves the Americas.

Certainly for xONEx fares, the minimum baggage rules are specific: (http://www.oneworld.com/documents/1...ules+doc/8ed08d57-69e3-4d8b-bd69-d346ec820edf)

Indeed:

All oneworld Explorer fares permit, as a minimum, two pieces at 23kgs. Additional allowances may apply depending on oneworld status and each airline's individual benefits but this is the bare minimum.

. . .

 

[serfty]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

More to the point, I was trying to refer to Qantas oneworld classic awards and baggage:

...
Other than that, unless so specified in the fare rules (as per xONEx), in relation to IATA 302, I have seen reference to the DOT exception for Around the World or Circle fares to be only applicable if the furthermost stopover port in the routing from the origin is within the USA.

If that is the case, in relation to this routing, it is NYC - if London had been involved then it may indeed be individual journies for allowance: Great Circle Mapper

 

[ozflier]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

As of two weeks ago, despite all the hassles and extra point charges , I was satisfied that I had come out on top with my One World Award.

CAN I PLEASE WITHDRAW THAT IMPRESSION.

Just when I was beginning to believe I had challenged Qantas and get a good outcome for my OWA and value for my points , they manage to screw it up.

Well , as I posted recently, the only gaps in our itinerary Australia to South America was the sector Sao Paulo to Lima. I was able to get economy seats early on but found some business award seats available a couple of weeks ago.

The usual call to Qantas for each of us, the usual payment of 3500 points was made. Seats held and sent off to ticketing.

My mine took 2 weeks but eventually came thru fine.

My wife's came yesterday with, believe it or not the sector GRU to LIM missing. Indeed a previously ticketed EZE-GRU in business was also missing!

So I rang QF this morning.

Well, they told me- when QF in Auckland did not complete the ticketing within 2 weeks, TAM just took the seats back i.e. seats gone!

But get this, it was my fault! I asked why?

My booking is too complicated - while not illegal, it involved too many sectors, transfers and open jaws.

I booked too early - ie at the 330 day mark.( but its the only way to get transpac business class award seats)

I should not have booked it via the Auckland ticketing office!( I didn't - I just rang 131313 from Brisbane and apparently, because there was initially no BNE-AKL segment award segment to proceed the available AKL-SCL one, the computer "assumed" it was going to be a NZ based award!)

So (and I did feel sorry for her, she was trying to help) the agent found that there was another business seat available on the EZE-GRU leg.

But nothing for the GRU to LIM one.

She spoke to her senior.

Now get this: re the lost GRU-LIM seat, there is nothing they can do !

Were there any other options eg route us EZE-LIM direct or LIM-SCL-LIM ? There were seats. No because that would break the rules either needing 2 OW carriers as well as QF) or too many transfers in the one city ( respectively).

"Just ring us every day in case a GRU-LIM seat comes up"!

The other bit of advice I got was ( and i think it was sincerely given) - just accept the booking as it is and even if a business class seat comes up GRU-LIM, don't try and get it ticketed because the ticketing process thru AKL is so prone to delay (and obviously error) that I might lose the upgraded segment and maybe others as well and totally ruin the trip.

Could I have the 3500 points back I paid to change the GRU-LIM sector to business and which no longer exists ? No, because it was my fault.

Anyone have any contacts in QFF that actually care and will answer emails with genuine issues to address?

Well, you just can't beat Qantas.

 

[Daver6]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

That's completely disgraceful by QF.

Sure they can fix it. They can just book the flights you need and wear the cost. Its not that there isn't anything they can do...they just don't want to.

If that were me, I'd be furious. I suspect should this be raised on social media, you might get a more favourable outcome.