Oneworld Classic Flight Reward Discussion - The Definitive Thread

[Azusa]

Good Day,

Can I please ask someone to clarify?
If I land in Haneda and depart from Narita ( less than 24 hours later) , does this count as one or two transits in the same city?
Someone had mentioned in an earlier post that it counts as two.
Though to be honest, I will be departing again from Narita and the ticket has been issued.
It’s just that, I don’t want it to become an issue when I add on my final sectors next week. ( which will not include the above mentioned airports).

Thank you in advance for your assistance.

I have something similar but in london, it’s count as one, but some agents will say otherwise depending on who you get, if that happens hang up and call back.

 

[DC3]

... If I land in Haneda and depart from Narita ( less than 24 hours later) , does this count as one or two transits in the same city?
Someone had mentioned in an earlier post that it counts as two ...

As long as your transit in the same city is less than 24 hours. Whatever airport(s) should not make a difference.

Edit: one city = one transit. And, don’t be put off by SA or Manilla. . HUACA

 

[gilldo]

But if it's more than 24 hours, it should just be counted as a stopover in the one city (Tokyo). Less than 24 hours, it's a transit.

Places you should be careful with this sort of thinking include LA, SanFran, etc, as they have multiple airports, some of which are considered to be within the greater metropolis, others are considered to be separate cities (which would incur both a stopover where you land and a transit where you leave from).

 

[Danger]

My wife and I are planning the following trip for November/December 2020.
25/11 MEL ( or SYD ) - SCL (Transit)
26/11 SCL - BUE
9/12 BUE to either FRA or TXG
22/12 FRA ( or TXG ) - JFK
26/12 JFK - SFO
29/12 SFO - MEL ( or SYD )
We only have approx 400,000 QF points and wish to go J, which would entail one Rewards ticket and one bought ticket. Could a TA give me a ball-park price for a J ticket? If the cost is prohibitive, our only option is to get 2 Y Award tickets.
Also I would appreciate a strategy for getting the Reward Bookings and any suggestions on " left-field" options.
Thank you

Yes, a TA could give you an idea, pricing the trip as point-to-point flights rather than a round the world fare (which, as futaris points out, wouldn't work). Expect the cost to be quite high, though. Also note that LATAM is unlikely to be in oneworld come December 2020 which poses a problem, particularly for the SCL-EZE flight.

 

[cambriamarsh]

From what I can see in T&C's (14.7.6) is that once you have flown the first sector on an international booking you can only change the flight number and date. You can't change the class, route or airline. As ever it seems to depend who you get through to at the time...

As a data point I made a change yesterday using the QF app to a couple of BA sectors on an upcoming 280K and was only charged the usual 5K per person. No jump to 318K.

Further datapoints.

Just finished my first 280K trip, many thanks to all contributors to this thread for all the help, during which we changed a NAP-LGW on BA from Y to J the day before and a SYD-AKL on QF from Y to J a couple of days before. Change fee only charged, 280K cap remained intact.

I haven't applied my bush lawyer skills to the specific rule quoted but maybe there is room for interpretation. I wouldn't expect many call centre operators to know the rules in that much detail and would expect the system's logic would be the first port of call when deciding whether a change or routing is permissible.

 

[cambriamarsh]

Further datapoints.

Just finished my first 280K trip, many thanks to all contributors to this thread for all the help, during which we changed a NAP-LGW on BA from Y to J the day before and a SYD-AKL on QF from Y to J a couple of days before. Change fee only charged, 280K cap remained intact.

I haven't applied my bush lawyer skills to the specific rule quoted but maybe there is room for interpretation. I wouldn't expect many call centre operators to know the rules in that much detail and would expect the system's logic would be the first port of call when deciding whether a change or touting is permissible.

Another point of interest is that the NAP- LGW change from Y to J was done via the SA call centre which in this instance was very good.

I was requesting the change while on a bus between Sorrento and Positano and was just about there when the call dropped out. Much muttering. However when reception returned there was a message from the operator advising the change had been made at a cost of 5K per person and to call back if I wasn't happy. After all the other issues with SA operators I was VERY impressed, maybe these threads are being monitored and appropriate training administered.

 

[cambriamarsh]

Another point of interest is that the NAP- LGW change from Y to J was done via the SA call centre which in this instance was very good.

I was requesting the change while on a bus between Sorrento and Positano and was just about there when the call dropped out. Much muttering. However when reception returned there was a message from the operator advising the change had been made at a cost of 5K per person and to call back if I wasn't happy. After all the other issues with SA operators I was VERY impressed, maybe these threads are being monitored and appropriate training administered.

Further point is when I was trying to upgrade the SYD-AKL leg a couple of operators, one in SA and one in AU insisted there was no availability when I could see it. Thinking it maybe a database refresh issue I HUACA then get another operator (Sharif?) who initially couldn't see them either but thought to log in under my QFF number. Instant availability even though I'm only LTS!

Moral of the story is be persistent and if the operator can't see the availability but you can suggest they log in under your number, that may bring the availability up (I know some of this should be a default step at QFF but we have to work with what we have and it may help keep seats for members of this forum).

Anyway after all this thanks again to all contributors, my MD now really appreciates my obsession.

 

[exceladdict]

Hi Friends; I will be shortly cancelling 2 U (business award) seats on the following flights, which includes some legs during peak/holiday times. Of course, I can't guarantee that these will go back to availability but if you are looking for anything around these dates let me know and I can message you when I'm about to contact the call centre to give you the best chance. Planning to do so at some stage this week.

2019
2/12 MNL-SYD QF20
6/12 HND-HKG CX649
6/12 HKG-PER CX143

2020
7/4 PER-SIN QF71
8/4 SIN-NRT JL712
11/4 NRT-SEA JL68
27/4 SFO-MEL QF50

 

[exceladdict]

Another datapoint for there being a QF error in recalculating tax/surcharge differences when making changes to award bookings that commence in Manlia:

This morning I booked a return ticket MNL to Japan; and booked the wrong date on the return ticket. I contacted QF via SMS wanting to change the date of the return leg by one day: Same carrier, flight number, class, everything except the date. I even contacted QF center within 1 hour of making the original booking - (meaning it's very unlikely there was a change in the official fee/surcharge rate between my original booking and the contact).

Yet QF wanted another PHP3000 (give or take AU$100) to change the date on the booking (they'd waive the change and assistance fee because it was within 24hrs of the original booking).

The SMS agent claimed they "calculated the taxes four times" yet every time the system wanted more payment.

So reinforcing my earlier experience (a few pages back) of trying to make changes to an existing booking that commenced in MNL: Something furry happens when the contact centre recalculates taxes. My suspicion is it shifts to an AU (or other) POS. If you want to start a booking in MNL to save on taxes; get it right the first time - changing your booking will increase your surcharge. For a return MNL to Japan this meant $100 - for my earlier complicated itinerary, it was hundreds more per passenger.

 

[Oubline]

Hi, I have struggled with the routing rules that allow 2 transits and 1 stopover each city.

Would an itinerary that includes the following trips breach the rules?:
MEL-NRT-FRA (stop)
CDG-HEL-NRT-CTS (stop)
NRT-MEL

The part I am struggling with is whether in last leg NRT is a ‘stopover’ or whether it would be considered a third transit and therefore not allowed.

Thanks for any help!

 

[vetrade]

Where you have land sectors the stopover city is the one you land in. In your case CTS is the stopover city and your itinerary is against the rules because you have 3 NRT transits. You have a land leg between CTS and NRT so an option would be to reconfigure your itinerary to delete the NRT - CTS leg. This would change your stopover city from CTS to NRT when you arrive from HEL. You would then need to get to CTS and back to NRT via separate cash flights or other means (you obviously already intend to do this one way, anyway). You would then end up with one transit and one stopover in NRT and CTS wouldn't rate any mention on your OW itinerary.

The downside is that you would have extra expense to get from NRT to CTS which is probably insignificant in the overall context of a OW reward holiday.

 

[Oubline]

Th

Where you have land sectors the stopover city is the one you land in. In your case CTS is the stopover city and your itinerary is against the rules because you have 3 NRT transits. You have a land leg between CTS and NRT so an option would be to reconfigure your itinerary to delete the NRT - CTS leg. This would change your stopover city from CTS to NRT when you arrive from HEL. You would then need to get to CTS and back to NRT via separate cash flights or other means (you obviously already intend to do this one way, anyway). You would then end up with one transit and one stopover in NRT and CTS wouldn't rate any mention on your OW itinerary.

The downside is that you would have extra expense to get from NRT to CTS which is probably insignificant in the overall context of a OW reward holiday.

Thanks a lot! That really makes it clear.

 

[motef]

So i have noticed that the QR availability has recently changed for the worst

I have been looking almost every day for the last few months on
HEL - DOH
and
DOH - SYD

The HEL-DOH would always have at least 2 J award seats on a direct flight. Now for the last 2 weeks the only availability that is showing is with AY from HEL to Berlin Tegel, Stockholm, Copenhagen then on QR to DOH

The DOH-SYD would always have 2 J seats on release date but now nothing at all is showing

Is this others peoples experience?

 

[bookworm]

Have a similar problem.
SFO- HEL no availability in J in AY unless prepared to route via London etc
HEL- DOH again nothing direct
Ditto for DOH - PER

I don’t have the extra miles for indirect routes.
Don’t know whether to rethink itinerary or wait.
As a last resort, will have to try via HKG on CX. But only if nothing else comes up.

 

[pyffii]

CX availability is almost non existent ex Europe or ex HKG to OZ....There is plenty of availabilty ex SIN through HKG to Europe though !!!....Coming back, well thats a huge problem as need to go HKG-SIN-OZ and that adds hours to the flight time plus a considerable number of extra points

 

[bookworm]

Thank for that.
Sigh. This is a tad stressful.

 

[vetrade]

Time to rethink your itinerary. Flexibility and contingency options are the key because reward seat availability is not consistently reliable. If you have stretched your mileage so thin that you have virtually no routing flexibility left then it's time to re-examine your priorities and expectations. Don't be greedy.

I find it helps if I can visualise our intended route easily by plotting it on a world map. If you are stretching the mileage limit, it's surprising how a map can help you see "wasteful" routings. If your route zig zags too much then it is chewing up mileage. I have found that setting a route which connects stopovers in a circular direction rather than connecting places with crossing multiple times through individual cities (LHR being the most obvious), can save quite a bit in mileage.
Don't discount the benefits of paying cash for some flights to free up mileage on your reward itinerary, especially in Europe. Even though we always book J OW rewards, we often pay for cheap Y flights of 1 - 2 hrs duration to free up miles and allow us to merge 2 or more stopovers into one.
Look at using more BA flights - even though people can be put off by their high taxes, overall they do have good reward availability.
Travelling from Aus to (or from) Europe via the USA will generally soak up 4,000 or more extra Kms than going via Asia/ Middle East. Even flying LHR - JNB - SYD instead of trying for routes via HKG, DXB or DOH can be several 1000 kms less than trying to travel via SFO, DFW or LAX.

 

[Oubline]

Looks like it will max out at 280K

Just to report back, my award did indeed cap out at 280k when I went to add extra flights. So it appears that it you turn a pre devaluation award booking of any kind into a Oneworld Award, it will cap out at the 280k level. It was a great surprise.

 

[LA10]

Mine did the same. Finalized the booking today. Taxes came to about 1500.

 

[zoom&boom]

Just wondering how the Brain’s Trust would do the following....

I have an award AY flight SIN- HEL arriving at 06:15. Am I able to add a paid AY flight HEL-ARN and have luggage checked all the way through etc or would this be treated as two separate bookings?

Assuming two separate bookings I understand I’ll have to clear custom etc and recheck in. Any idea how long I should allow?

As an aside I wasn’t ever able to get SIN-HEL-ARN as an awar. Could only ever get SIN-HEL.