Oneworld Classic Flight Reward Discussion - The Definitive Thread

[Mr H]

I know there's a Covid thread but this is OWA specific question:
OWA itineraries can be cancelled if you miss or don't turn up for a flight through your own fault, but, apart from travel insurance, what's the position if you had a positive RAT test in the 24hr window before a flight? I know different countries have varying requirements regarding whether you need to isolate (and for how long), but I'm more interested in whether your ongoing itinerary could be cancelled if you had to isolate or wait for clearance to travel.

How much comfort can one have that the airlines would accommodate you on another flight/s if a positive RAT caused a delay?
To me this possibility seems to be far more problematical than the risk of flight cancellations or delays.

This is my worry - I think at the moment that a missed flight means the whole itinerary falls. You may be able to get Covid insurance but that would probably just cover any period of isolation and repatriation or resumption of the itinerary. But if the itinerary has been wiped, you are in trouble.

You might be able to persuade QF not to cancel the itinerary and allow you to pick it up again when you are clear, and maybe on a good day you might get them to allow changes, but it would probably be handled on a case by case basis at the time - so no comfort if you are embarking on your travel.

FWIW, I have a OWA award in late August to early October - I intend to cancel it if Covid testing before flights is still a thing. I could not be confident enough that I would not catch Covid somewhere along the way.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I know there's a Covid thread but this is OWA specific question:
OWA itineraries can be cancelled if you miss or don't turn up for a flight through your own fault, but, apart from travel insurance, what's the position if you had a positive RAT test in the 24hr window before a flight? I know different countries have varying requirements regarding whether you need to isolate (and for how long), but I'm more interested in whether your ongoing itinerary could be cancelled if you had to isolate or wait for clearance to travel.

How much comfort can one have that the airlines would accommodate you on another flight/s if a positive RAT caused a delay?
To me this possibility seems to be far more problematical than the risk of flight cancellations or delays.

I think this is what you need insurance for, and one that covers Qantas points.

If you need to miss your flight due to covid there is no obligation for the airline to reaccommodate… and especially so if there were partner airlines involved. Of course, worth trying to see if they will release seats.

Depending on the insurance provider, they may reimburse you for your lost QFFF points. They have different calculations between providers, but gernally they divide the revenue fare by the number of points, and you’d get paid out the $$. Which should be enough for a one way home… hopefully.

 

[Mr H]

I think this is what you need insurance for, and one that covers Qantas points.

If you need to miss your flight due to covid there is no obligation for the airline to reaccommodate… and especially so if there were partner airlines involved. Of course, worth trying to see if they will release seats.

Depending on the insurance provider, they may reimburse you for your lost QFFF points. They have different calculations between providers, but gernally they divide the revenue fare by the number of points, and you’d get paid out the $$. Which should be enough for a one way home… hopefully.

The challenge with a OWA would be making the case that you had lost points after you had taken your first flight. The sectors within the award are not easily divisible into component points.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

The challenge with a OWA would be making the case that you had lost points after you had taken your first flight. The sectors within the award are not easily divisible into component points.

Agree, but the insurance companies will have a way of calculating that, quite possibly that they would price it at the cost to complete your itinerary. This would be no different to a paid RTW ticket where the insurance company would compensate you, or return you home, as part of the insurance claim.

Allianz for example compensates for lost FF points on the basis of an equivalent booking as you had redeemed for your FF points. So if you were half way through a OWA, they would calculate an equivalent paid return to Au.

Of course the insurance company could choose to use part of that payment towards other costs for your trip resumption or return home, depending on your circumstances.

 

[Mr H]

Agree, but the insurance companies will have a way of calculating that, quite possibly that they would price it at the cost to complete your itinerary. This would be no different to a paid RTW ticket where the insurance company would compensate you, or return you home, as part of the insurance claim.

Allianz for example compensates for lost FF points on the basis of an equivalent booking as you had redeemed for your FF points. So if you were half way through a OWA, they would calculate an equivalent paid return to Au.

Of course the insurance company could choose to use part of that payment towards other costs for your trip resumption or return home, depending on your circumstances.

I have read the rules for a number of policies but they don't really make much sense.

The multiplier stuff is relevant only in terms of forfeiting points to have most of your points returned - hence calculating a notional value for those forfeited points - or for a complete reimbursement of points if they are all lost before travel starts. And perhaps the insurance could cope with an outward and return booking and reimburse you if you have to cancel at the halfway point.

But with a 14 flight OWA and you have the itinerary cancelled after 14 flights, are they really going to price all 11 missed flights as revenue and give you the value in cash? Or would they say that the first three flights alone would have cost the same points so you get nada? Or would they just fly you home directly from where you are and the points issue would just be incidental?

They really need to show a worked example for a OWA lost in mid travel to make me confident they were really insuring me for loss.

 

[Lynda2475]

The insurance policy I chose covers award flights, if I get covid and cant fly then insurance will pay for me to fly the same class home when I can fly if the airline cant find me an equivalent reward seat. If I get to come home or continue my trip a few days later in the same class I care not about getting points refunded.

Most policies cap covid delay fees at $5k, I chose one with $20k as $5k wont cover J seats.

I figure compensation for points only comes into play if your in hospital and never started the trip, so were a no show.

 

[vetrade]

The insurance policy I chose covers award flights, if I get covid and cant fly then insurance will pay for me to fly the same class home when I can fly if the airline cant find me an equivalent reward seat. If I get to come home or continue my trip a few days later in the same class I care not about getting points refunded.

Most policies cap covid delay fees at $5k, I chose one with $20k as $5k wont cover J seats.

I figure compensation for points only comes into play if your in hospital and never started the trip, so were a no show.

Which insurance company, Lynda2475?

 

[Lynda2475]

I cant vouch for how easy they are to claim with but I booked with Go Insurance: Travel Insurance, Holiday & Vacation Insurance

Pre-covid most comprehensive policies would pay to fly you home in same class if you had to terminate your trip or delay return for a medical reason. Make sure you read the PDS, may not be best for you.

 

[madrooster]

The anxiety stems from previous auto cancellations, and the fact there was no adjustments made to points or taxes despite flying via LHR instead of NRT, which I assume would cost much more.

This suggests the correct ticket reissuance processes have not occurred. For ALL changes you should see the original points reposted to your account and then the new amount taken back out - this applies both where the old/new points are identical and also when the old and new points differ (eg. an increase or decrease).

OWA itineraries can be cancelled if you miss or don't turn up for a flight through your own fault, but, apart from travel insurance, what's the position if you had a positive RAT test in the 24hr window before a flight? I know different countries have varying requirements regarding whether you need to isolate (and for how long), but I'm more interested in whether your ongoing itinerary could be cancelled if you had to isolate or wait for clearance to travel.

Before you fly the first flight, easy, just cancel and refund as per QF flex policy or the standard 6000 points penalty if the flex policy is no longer in effect.

After you fly the first flight, ie. you are now mid trip, then you can only change dates/flight numbers. The routing and carriers must remain the same.

The downside is it's considered a voluntary change if you test positive (ie. not the airline's fault), so you would have to find alternative award space on the same routing and dates. That could range from a piece of cake, to impossible and if it's the latter then you lose your points.

How much comfort can one have that the airlines would accommodate you on another flight/s if a positive RAT caused a delay?
To me this possibility seems to be far more problematical than the risk of flight cancellations or delays.

Generally, zero.

This is my worry - I think at the moment that a missed flight means the whole itinerary falls. You may be able to get Covid insurance but that would probably just cover any period of isolation and repatriation or resumption of the itinerary. But if the itinerary has been wiped, you are in trouble.

You might be able to persuade QF not to cancel the itinerary and allow you to pick it up again when you are clear, and maybe on a good day you might get them to allow changes, but it would probably be handled on a case by case basis at the time - so no comfort if you are embarking on your travel.

If you've started flying the ticket, then you would need to find alternate award space on the same carriers and routing, so if you don't have much slack in your itinerary, then you're likely in for a world of pain to find alternative space in order to resume/pickup/rejoin the existing later flights.

 

[renatts]

This suggests the correct ticket reissuance processes have not occurred. For ALL changes you should see the original points reposted to your account and then the new amount taken back out - this applies both where the old/new points are identical and also when the old and new points differ (eg. an increase or decrease).



Before you fly the first flight, easy, just cancel and refund as per QF flex policy or the standard 6000 points penalty if the flex policy is no longer in effect.

After you fly the first flight, ie. you are now mid trip, then you can only change dates/flight numbers. The routing and carriers must remain the same.

The downside is it's considered a voluntary change if you test positive (ie. not the airline's fault), so you would have to find alternative award space on the same routing and dates. That could range from a piece of cake, to impossible and if it's the latter then you lose your points.



Generally, zero.



If you've started flying the ticket, then you would need to find alternate award space on the same carriers and routing, so if you don't have much slack in your itinerary, then you're likely in for a world of pain to find alternative space in order to resume/pickup/rejoin the existing later flights.

Thanks madrooster.
That was pretty much my fear.

I called yesterday morning after we decided to add a sector (Iceland to LHR to Zurich) - we mainly did it so the taxes would have to be adjusted, but we also needed the flights on that date. Got a lovely lady is South Africa who confirmed it had not been processed properly.
She recalculated everything and pushed it through to ticketing. She said she was going to get it reticketed straight away for me so no flights drop out, without me even mentioning it, so I felt like I finally got someone who had done this before.

Sure enough, 5 minutes later, money was charged and e-ticket in the email. The taxes were … heavy.. QF9 and extra BA flights - but I’d rather pay and have the tickets processed properly.

Everything looks as it should, so I’m going to avoid touching anything if I can.

Does anyone know if you can cancel sectors mid-trip? Our only internal flights now are the KEF - ZURICH via LHR - so we shouldn’t need to, but who knows what’ll happen between now and mid May..

 

[Oubline]

Thanks madrooster.
That was pretty much my fear.

I called yesterday morning after we decided to add a sector (Iceland to LHR to Zurich) - we mainly did it so the taxes would have to be adjusted, but we also needed the flights on that date. Got a lovely lady is South Africa who confirmed it had not been processed properly.
She recalculated everything and pushed it through to ticketing. She said she was going to get it reticketed straight away for me so no flights drop out, without me even mentioning it, so I felt like I finally got someone who had done this before.

Sure enough, 5 minutes later, money was charged and e-ticket in the email. The taxes were … heavy.. QF9 and extra BA flights - but I’d rather pay and have the tickets processed properly.

Everything looks as it should, so I’m going to avoid touching anything if I can.

Does anyone know if you can cancel sectors mid-trip? Our only internal flights now are the KEF - ZURICH via LHR - so we shouldn’t need to, but who knows what’ll happen between now and mid May..

I think the answer is no, following what madrooster wrote and also these terms from the Frequent Flyer Terms and Conditions. It seems you have to stick to your routing and if you are lucky may at best be able to push the date of a particular segment (noting the point about a ticket not needing to be reissued)

14.7.6 Subject to this clause 14.7, the following changes are permitted to a Classic Flight Reward flight before departure of that flight, provided the booking contains one or more Flight Segments that are not within Australia, and the Flight Segment(s) being changed do not include a partner airline that requires a ticket to be reissued for the change. Any such change will incur a Change Fee (see the Fee Schedule) per passenger:

(a) change to flight number; and
(b) change to date of travel.

14.7.8 The following changes are not permitted to any Classic Flight Reward within 24 hours before departure from the point of origin of the first Flight Segment on the Itinerary:

(a) change to class of travel;
(b) change to any Segment routing or airline; and
(c) change to name (only for Flights with a Qantas (QF) flight number on the ticket that are operated by Qantas).

 

[Oubline]

This suggests the correct ticket reissuance processes have not occurred. For ALL changes you should see the original points reposted to your account and then the new amount taken back out - this applies both where the old/new points are identical and also when the old and new points differ (eg. an increase or decrease).

Hi madrooster, very much appreciate your advice since I know you're knowledgable about these things. I am wondering whether this adding and subtracting points is somehow not happening at the moment.

With my last three changes to my ticket this didn't happen but I did get updated eticket PDFs with ticket numbers, credit card charged, appears OK on RJ.com etc. I did get them to ticket while I waited on hold each time, in case that makes a difference.

 

[boxjelly5]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

I did one in June. Booked about a month out and got flights I was happy with. It took a bit of hunting down sectors, with several windows open, but I managed to join up all the dots.

Getting in and out of Australia is the tricky bit. My Cathay Pacific flight out of Melbourne was chockers to Honkers. I didn't get QF LAX-SYD, instead I went JFK to Narita (a delightful daylight flight the whole way with the bonus a birds eye view of midsummer Alaska) and then got the red-eye kangaroo home. The jumbo was about a third full, so as soon as the seatbelt sign came off, we all swapped around. I had a row to myself, but unfortunately it was a bulkhead row with fixed armrests. Even though I couldn't stretch out across the row, it was a pleasure having plenty of room for my gear, and unfettered access to the aisle.

Once you are out of Australia, there are generally lots of choices available, especially in Europe. Just be creative about routing. And times.

One highlight of the trip was the Frankfurt-London leg. I flew in a little Avro across the Channel, we came in along the Thames, turned over Buckingham Palace, and then flew low over the City to land at London City airport, a sweet little one-runway place where it is a short walk to the Docklands Light Railway into town.

Something to note about these long award flights. With a oneWorld Explorer, after you take the first flight, everything is flexible. But with an award flight, if you miss one departure, the rest of the itinerary is wiped.

“Getting in and out of Australia is the tricky bit”. This is very true. I have arranged 3 RTW trips but had to cancel the first 2 due to Corona. I am now living in Thailand for a year or two and have found it relatively smooth to organise each time. I gave up on splitting the trip into 2 with a long stopover in Australia because that immediately made it very challenging. I also just swapped away from Cathay because I’m worried that those flights could evaporate.

 

[GaryLG]

Frustrating phone call at the moment. I had previously had an operator use J class seats to deal with flight changes and no e-ticket issued. So decided I better get this sorted. Today's operator in acknowledging that isn't just issuing the e-ticket but is trying to find classic reward seats/flights which we all know is going to be a challenge to say the least!

 

[redwoodw]

Frustrating phone call at the moment. I had previously had an operator use J class seats to deal with flight changes and no e-ticket issued. So decided I better get this sorted. Today's operator in acknowledging that isn't just issuing the e-ticket but is trying to find classic reward seats/flights which we all know is going to be a challenge to say the least!

At least your operator's acknowledging that. My past 8 operators have all said "it's involuntary rerouting, we can put you on whatever that takes you there"... Okay...

 

[GaryLG]

At least your operator's acknowledging that. My past 8 operators have all said "it's involuntary rerouting, we can put you on whatever that takes you there"... Okay...

True. As she pops back it even sounds like I might get ticketed on the flights as currently listed, I hope.

 

[renatts]

True. As she pops back it even sounds like I might get ticketed on the flights as currently listed, I hope.

It took me what felt like 1000 calls (about 35 in reality) but I had all the J/C class flights that were ‘involuntary reroute’ converted to U class by Qantas. They went from C to U-Requested to U confirmed. I had to call to get them from requested to confirmed.
I also had it finally ticketed properly after I added a segment within Europe and she adjusted the taxes. It was a big chunk of cash considering I went from JAL/AY via NRT to QF via LHR ($500 extra per person)

Just keep on them and don’t accept under U class on Qantas metal. They’re allowed to convert seats.
I had the added frustration of finding a route with availability that they wouldn’t book for me, so feel free to use that argument if they won’t convert the seats for you.

 

[GaryLG]

It took me what felt like 1000 calls (about 35 in reality) but I had all the J/C class flights that were ‘involuntary reroute’ converted to U class by Qantas. They went from C to U-Requested to U confirmed. I had to call to get them from requested to confirmed.
I also had it finally ticketed properly after I added a segment within Europe and she adjusted the taxes. It was a big chunk of cash considering I went from JAL/AY via NRT to QF via LHR ($500 extra per person)

Just keep on them and don’t accept under U class on Qantas metal. They’re allowed to convert seats.
I had the added frustration of finding a route with availability that they wouldn’t book for me, so feel free to use that argument if they won’t convert the seats for you.

Well originally I thought they had converted the seats till I saw the email!

And right now she is talking about adjusting taxes AND points. I shouldn't be arguing the point till she does finally give me the solution of course.

The other frustating part is this is for flights from Japan and until things become I might be on the phone again trying to change this all over again!

 

[flyingchicken]

JAL Website now says that the MEL-NRT flight is cancelled but that they're considering setting up extra flights based on demand trends: https://www.jal.co.jp/jp/en/info/2022/inter/220501_05/

In case this is still of interest to someone - I recently stumbled across my MEL-NRT being cancelled without notice in 4 weeks time. No contact, explanation or offer of alternative. This is after booking it on 11 Feb...

 

[Mr H]

In case this is still of interest to someone - I recently stumbled across my MEL-NRT being cancelled without notice in 4 weeks time. No contact, explanation or offer of alternative. This is after booking it on 11 Feb...

Check My Trip would have notified you, but I know some people have a touching faith in Qantas PDFs and prefer to avoid real time updates on CMT...