Oneworld Classic Flight Reward Discussion - The Definitive Thread

[Mwenenzi]

2. I have more than one stop over in a city since I come into JFK and leave from EWR. I must admit I lost my cool a little at this point. I forced them to define which city JFK and EWR belong to and brought them to 14.4.4. Its 1 stop over in New York City.

JFK is in New York (city & state)
EWR is over the river in the State of New Jersey. Not in New York city

EWR) is a major international airport serving the New York metropolitan area. The airport straddles the boundary between the cities of Newark in Essex County and Elizabeth in Union County, in the U.S. state of New Jersey

Was a time airlines recognised "co terminals", but far less now. The introduction on e-tickets did change some things.

QF need a dedicated team with deep knowledge of the Oneworld Classic award and the Oneworld cash paid *ONE* detailed rules, and knowledge of airports around world, for these more complex tickets. Not some random unskilled phone operator who happens to answer a call. The amount of rework on these more complex tickets will be increasing Qantas costs.

Hope you get it fixed.

 

[Lynda2475]

Whilst Im sorry to hear about the nonsense you are putting up with, the agent is in fact correct about EWR so this could in fact be a contributing factor.

Since 3 October 2022, New Jersey's Newark Liberty International Airport (EWR) was no longer considered a New York City-area airport; and there NJ may be considered a separate stop. To avoid this try to find flights out of JFK or La Guardia which are actual NYC airports.

 

[kenjicult]

@Mwenenzi and @Lynda2475
Thank you for that. An oversight on my part on that clearly regarding EWR. I think at this point I just assumed any issue they raised was a non-issue.

What I actually dont understand is how it would impact the stopover rules. If anything at all would it not just become a surface sector between JFK and EWR and the itinerary would still be below 5 stopovers?

I will do as @Kerrodt suggested and email the escalations team in any case

 

[djkelly69]

If anything at all would it not just become a surface sector between JFK and EWR and the itinerary would still be below 5 stopovers?

Can't speak specifically to JFK/EWR, but my understanding is that only the arrival port of a surface sector counts as a stopover.

As to the larger issue, the short version is they (the o/s call centre operators) do not know why it is not capping and are literally making s*** up. As has been mentioned, when you have a qualifying OWA booking, the system identifies this by itself and caps it. You do not need to have a certain box ticked or to have booked it in a certain order, etc.

The rewards booking email address may be able to help, it may not, time will tell.

If that fails, I might suggest a de-identified copy of your itinerary from QF Manage My Booking might be helpful for the OWA sleuths to possibly locate the issue.

 

[JohnM]

@Mwenenzi and @Lynda2475
Thank you for that. An oversight on my part on that clearly regarding EWR. I think at this point I just assumed any issue they raised was a non-issue.

What I actually dont understand is how it would impact the stopover rules. If anything at all would it not just become a surface sector between JFK and EWR and the itinerary would still be below 5 stopovers?

I will do as @Kerrodt suggested and email the escalations team in any case

This may offer some insight:

Newark Airport is No Longer Considered an NYC Airport, How it Will Affect You - New Jersey Digest

When booking a flight to New York City, many travelers fly out of one…

thedigestonline.com

 

[kenjicult]

Can't speak specifically to JFK/EWR, but my understanding is that only the arrival port of a surface sector counts as a stopover.

As to the larger issue, the short version is they (the o/s call centre operators) do not know why it is not capping and are literally making s*** up. As has been mentioned, when you have a qualifying OWA booking, the system identifies this by itself and caps it. You do not need to have a certain box ticked or to have booked it in a certain order, etc.

The rewards booking email address may be able to help, it may not, time will tell.

If that fails, I might suggest a de-identified copy of your itinerary from QF Manage My Booking might be helpful for the OWA sleuths to possibly locate the issue.

If the arrival port of a surface sector counts as a stopover then what I'm requesting would indeed be over the stopover limit. I didn't realise this. I thought only the arrival port of flights in the itinerary were counted as stopovers (if not flying out of that port within 24 hours).

Ie. I was under the impression that after landing in a stopover city (say NYC), you could make your "own" way to another city (say LAX) to catch a flight without LAX itself being counted as another stopover (and only the destination city of the flight from LAX being counted as a stopover were you to stay there >24hr).

This is our itinerary on the Qantas manage booking page, they have added the "New York" EWR-CLT-LAS segment but its not yet ticketed



I was banking on the stopovers in the above itinerary only being Helsinki, NYC, Las Vegas and London (with a view to add LHR-HKG in the future). If I wrongly interpreted the surface segment stopover rule, then I might just gun for LHR-HKG instead of the transcontinental US flight..

Addit: I have emailed rewards escalation and hopefully get a result

Thanks for the help so far!

 

[DC3]

What I actually dont understand is how it would impact the stopover rules. If anything at all would it not just become a surface sector between JFK and EWR and the itinerary would still be below 5 stopovers?

Exactly. Arriving JFK, departing EWR could only be one stop, not two (i.e., the stop is JFK, and then a surface sector, departing EWR). If the Call Centre is calculating it as two stops, then they are clearly wrong.

 

[Jacques Vert]

If the arrival port of a surface sector counts as a stopover then what I'm requesting would indeed be over the stopover limit. I didn't realise this. I thought only the arrival port of flights in the itinerary were counted as stopovers (if not flying out of that port within 24 hours).

Ie. I was under the impression that after landing in a stopover city (say NYC), you could make your "own" way to another city (say LAX) to catch a flight without LAX itself being counted as another stopover (and only the destination city of the flight from LAX being counted as a stopover were you to stay there >24hr).

This is our itinerary on the Qantas manage booking page, they have added the "New York" EWR-CLT-LAS segment but its not yet ticketed

View attachment 405370

I was banking on the stopovers in the above itinerary only being Helsinki, NYC, Las Vegas and London (with a view to add LHR-HKG in the future). If I wrongly interpreted the surface segment stopover rule, then I might just gun for LHR-HKG instead of the transcontinental US flight..

Addit: I have emailed rewards escalation and hopefully get a result

Thanks for the help so far!

Now here's a thought. Your flight from CLT to LAS is showing the flight number as AA1323. When I put AA1323 into Google or FlightAware, it comes up as a flight from DFW to DTW. This also shows up on the AA website:



I know flight numbers get reused for different routes from time to time and presumably this is the case here; at some time between now and May 2025, the flight number is being reassigned from DFW-DTW to CLT-LAS.

If that is the case, maybe the QF backend is picking up the current route (and distance) from DFW to DTW, plus surface sectors from CLT to DFW and DTW to LAS. If so, the total milage would be calculated as 36,230.

Try adding a different flight (different flight number) for the CLT-LAS sector and see if that solves the issue. Alternatively, pick a different routing from NYC to LAS.

Good luck.

 

[kenjicult]

Now here's a thought. Your flight from CLT to LAS is showing the flight number as AA1323. When I put AA1323 into Google or FlightAware, it comes up as a flight from DFW to DTW. This also shows up on the AA website:

View attachment 405508

I know flight numbers get reused for different routes from time to time and presumably this is the case here; at some time between now and May 2025, the flight number is being reassigned from DFW-DTW to CLT-LAS.

If that is the case, maybe the QF backend is picking up the current route (and distance) from DFW to DTW, plus surface sectors from CLT to DFW and DTW to LAS. If so, the total milage would be calculated as 36,230.

Try adding a different flight (different flight number) for the CLT-LAS sector and see if that solves the issue. Alternatively, pick a different routing from NYC to LAS.

Good luck.

I would never have thought to check this. I will try this.
Thanks

 

[ausfox]

We made a QFF reward booking in January on Malaysian for October flights. A couple of days ago the outbound flight was cancelled so move to a day later departure. Today, return flight was cancelled. No rewards seats available the day before or after. QFF Premium call centre says bad luck, we can cancel if you want. WTF, many hotel and tour bookings in hand and they can say your problem. Options for return via Singapore or Hong Kong are offered in the manage page but they will not book. Call centre says that only the first leg has reward seats available. Question why are the vacancies showing on the QF page?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

We made a QFF reward booking in January on Malaysian for October flights. A couple of days ago the outbound flight was cancelled so move to a day later departure. Today, return flight was cancelled. No rewards seats available the day before or after. QFF Premium call centre says bad luck, we can cancel if you want. WTF, many hotel and tour bookings in hand and they can say your problem. Options for return via Singapore or Hong Kong are offered in the manage page but they will not book. Call centre says that only the first leg has reward seats available. Question why are the vacancies showing on the QF page?

can you maybe cut your losses and get a Qantas award seat - they might need to ‘create’ one - to say singapore, and make your own way from there?

 

[ausfox]

This booking is a QFF rewards booking.

 

[Mwenenzi]

We made a QFF reward booking in January on Malaysian for October flights. A couple of days ago the outbound flight was cancelled so move to a day later departure. Today, return flight was cancelled. No rewards seats available the day before or after. QFF Premium call centre says bad luck, we can cancel if you want. WTF, many hotel and tour bookings in hand and they can say your problem. Options for return via Singapore or Hong Kong are offered in the manage page but they will not book. Call centre says that only the first leg has reward seats available. Question why are the vacancies showing on the QF page?

This thread -- Oneworld Classic Flight Reward Planning - The Definitive Thread
If your post is about a simple QFF classic reward booking question better asked in another thread.[not oneworld]
Since the thread title was changed getting more off topic posts

 

[MEL_Traveller]

This booking is a QFF rewards booking.

Yes.

QFF doesn’t have control over Malaysia Airlines. If MH cancels, QFF is pretty much limited to accepting the new flights offered by MH, or offering a refund.

However, it might be worth asking QFFF if they can accommodate you to say SIN on qantas metal, by creating an award seat for you, and you then make your own way to KL. This might cost you a little bit, but might save your other costs.

 

[ausfox]

I asked for a release but no chance.

 

[DC3]

I would never have thought to check this. I will try this.

However, I’m betting on just plain old incompetence at the Call Centre.

Eventually, you will get someone who knows what they are doing.

 

[kenjicult]

The latest chapter after the 3 cycles of escalation

They have now acknowledged the original itinerary of
1. HKG-ICN-HEL (stay >24hrs)
2. HEL-LHR-JFK (stay >24hrs)
3. SIN-HEL-LHR

is a valid oneworld classic flight award itinerary

The issue allegedly is now were I to add the EWR-CLT-LAS leg after JFK is that I would have too many stopovers. (They are interpreting JFK-EWR's surface sector as an additional stopover, and then LAS to SIN as an additional stopover).

But now doubt has crept into my mind about how many stopovers I actually have. So I have to go back to basics (sorry) if someone can help me understand

1. How many stopovers do I have in my current ticketed itinerary? Is it 3 or 4?
2. If my last leg is LHR - HKG (returning to origin), does HKG get counted as a stopover?

PS.
I also mentioned the double up AA1323 route (that currently reads DFT-DTW) that could be throwing things off but they seem to (now) say it's not a mileage problem.

 

[Captain Halliday]

1. How many stopovers do I have in my current ticketed itinerary? Is it 3 or 4?
2. If my last leg is LHR - HKG (returning to origin), does HKG get counted as a stopover?

1. Assuming HEL and JFK are your only two locations >23 hour and 59 minutes the you current itinerary has two stopovers.
2. No.

 

[Kerrodt]

The latest chapter after the 3 cycles of escalation

They have now acknowledged the original itinerary of
1. HKG-ICN-HEL (stay >24hrs)
2. HEL-LHR-JFK (stay >24hrs)
3. SIN-HEL-LHR

is a valid oneworld classic flight award itinerary

The issue allegedly is now were I to add the EWR-CLT-LAS leg after JFK is that I would have too many stopovers. (They are interpreting JFK-EWR's surface sector as an additional stopover, and then LAS to SIN as an additional stopover).

But now doubt has crept into my mind about how many stopovers I actually have. So I have to go back to basics (sorry) if someone can help me understand

1. How many stopovers do I have in my current ticketed itinerary? Is it 3 or 4?
2. If my last leg is LHR - HKG (returning to origin), does HKG get counted as a stopover?

PS.
I also mentioned the double up AA1323 route (that currently reads DFT-DTW) that could be throwing things off but they seem to (now) say it's not a mileage problem.

Is there a reason why you are flying out of EWR instead of JFK? Is it simply a flight availability issue?

 

[kenjicult]

Is there a reason why you are flying out of EWR instead of JFK? Is it simply a flight availability issue?

Yes purely availability since we have a J reward anyway and AA doesn't include luggage on Y.

Not even against doing a Y sector at all. It's more so that if we can't even do this added sector, I expect future sectors will be just as much headache...