Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

[whatmeworry]

So the balance would be in the black if Howard and Costello didn't dole out rich and middle class tax cuts?

Howard and Costello could have done important welfare (ie disability) and infrastructure (Urban and Interstate rail), yet they took the populist route of giving every man and his dog a check. Howard and Costello are so convinced they were some economic masters but got voted convincingly out of their coughs!

 

[markis10]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

If I flight planned like the Federal Budget. Firstly I'd assume that I had an highly unlikely tailwind. Then I'd remove my variable reserve (don't need that) and I'd reduce my fixed reserve to a razor thin margin. Despite being on a tight plan I'd pick a higher fuel flow than I needed and include discretionary diversions that use more fuel. Once I got airborne and discovered that I didn't have the tailwind required I wouldn't reduce to range power because that would be 'irresponsible'. I would however blame the previous crew for burning excessive fuel (which they did) even though they handed the aircraft over with fuel in the tank. Of course I wouldn't let anybody know that I had a fuel issue until I could no longer hide the fact that we couldn't get to the destination. In the end the result would probably be the same though, I'd be out of a job by the end of Sept.​

And the company would tell you that the passengers were well paying miners but the actual loads would be Jetstar passengers on a fly a friend or three for free fares.

 

[dfcatch]

So the balance would be in the black if Howard and Costello didn't dole out rich and middle class tax cuts?

Howard and Costello could have done important welfare (ie disability) and infrastructure (Urban and Interstate rail), yet they took the populist route of giving every man and his dog a check. Howard and Costello are so convinced they were some economic masters but got voted convincingly out of their coughs!

Not as convincingly as this lot is about to be


Thanks for the morning chuckle

 

[Pukka]

So the balance would be in the black if Howard and Costello didn't dole out rich and middle class tax cuts?

Howard and Costello could have done important welfare (ie disability) and infrastructure (Urban and Interstate rail), yet they took the populist route of giving every man and his dog a check. Howard and Costello are so convinced they were some economic masters but got voted convincingly out of their coughs!

Wasn't it in the black until ALP took over and blew it all?

But by all means reminisce about past election glories because you won't have much to cheer come September

Lets see if Swan keeps his seat, I'm guessing not

 

[vetrade]

Leftie treasured belief - stick something related to class warfare (born to rule, silver spoon, etc) or mention Alan Jones in any come back and they think they have made an incisive observation and/or stinging rebuke even when it has no relevance to anything being discussed and especially when their beloved holy cows are knee deep in their own bovine excrement and sinking deeper...

Hear, Hear! The lefties seem to think they have superior intellect to everyone else and that only their way of thinking is correct. But even those that do seem to be quite intelligent don't come across as very smart. The most vocal among them keep denying the bleeding obvious aka Labor's woeful performance in government, and in place of logical and clear thinking and arguments they repeatedly sink to the lowest common denominator of casting aspersions on the intelligence of those with differing views - or otherwise cast them all as ruling class elites (who by implication could never have been successful because they worked much harder than most, saved or invested effectively) or tax avoiders etc.

Lift your game lefties - diversity of opinion is good but you gotta make it worth reading.

 

[medhead]

Leftie treasured belief - stick something related to class warfare (born to rule, silver spoon, etc) or mention Alan Jones in any come back and they think they have made an incisive observation and/or stinging rebuke even when it has no relevance to anything being discussed and especially when their beloved holy cows are knee deep in their own bovine excrement and sinking deeper...

Oh that's truly bizarre. I thought I was making an incisive response? I suggest you are sadly mistaken. But if we wish to analyse born to rule has nothing to do with class. It is a comment about Abbott's tantrum about not being able to form government at the last election. It is a comment about the people demanding that Gillard go and that Abbott be handed power in her place. It is a comment about who think that only they have a right to lead this country. That has nothing to do with class. Alan jones and tony Abbott have clearly demonstrated they have no class with their threats to kill the PM and their silent support of such threats, respectively. So it's not a class based comment.

Which gets onto the relevance. The question was asked about were certain people were, among a whole heap of meaningless comments that were little more than party political advertising that ignore the real problems both side pose to Australia. I simply suggested they were avoiding/ignoring those comments.

I suggest your assessment was incorrect. Relevant and not class based. It's interesting that you dragged class into it. Perhaps a mirror is required.

Anyway, since you lot have descended to name calling based on your political bias, this thread has lost any remaining value. At least the ALP has good policy based on its values. Unlike the coalition which throws away core party values at a whim to get popular support and gain power at any cost. We only have to look at the ALP winding back welfare and the coalition, the party that is supposed to support individual effort, arguing for welfare. Lets not even start on the coalition supporting welfare that the budget can't afford. Power at any cost in the Liberal party, even at the cost of their core values.

 

[Pushka]

The people demanding Julia go are the majority of Australians.

We do have real problems in Australia caused to a large degree by spending money that was predicted to arrive that never did. Denial in the face of economic advice to the contrary. All they had to do was walk into the business areas to see closed and struggling businesses but still Swan ignored that and said his forecasts were correct.

Did he even look at the reduced rate of tax revenue coming in from businesses BAS? Clearly not.

 

[vetrade]

Oh yeah.............they deny the undenyable too. Ref: Post 2399

 

[medhead]

The people demanding Julia go are the majority of Australians.

That's rubbish. Those are a vocal minority. The majority of Australians support our democratic processes. They don't demand that the PM just go because they don't like them. That is the ugliness of Australian politics. I'm glad you can support threatening to kill the PM. I don't.

 

[Pushka]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

To parody poorly a famous movie phrase, "Frankly, darlin', why should I give a damn?"

I'm older than you. .

"Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn"

 

[medhead]

Oh yeah.............they deny the undenyable too. Ref: Post 2399

It's laughable that you think you know how I vote. Truly bizarre. I guess that's why you can't back up you false statement here. Three word catch phrases how a failure of intellect. Interesting that you accuse people of holding a false feeling of intellectual superiority but then go ahead to proof it's not false.

 

[Pushka]

medhead, if you vote for the coalition after all the bile you post about coalition voters, born to rules, etc etc, your rationales for broken promises then you really do have a problem.

 

[amaroo]

Howard and Costello are so convinced they were some economic masters but got voted convincingly out of their coughs!

Yes, it was a shellacking.

I remember reading headlines suggesting that the new order was going to last a generation. Didn't quite work out that way......Krudd was excommunicated within 30 months & the once in a generation election result was wiped out in under 3 years.

Now we are trapped in a torturous slow motion death march towards Sept 2013.........where it appears another once in a generation election result will be delivered!

 

[medhead]

medhead, if you vote for the coalition after all the bile you post about coalition voters, born to rules, etc etc, your rationales for broken promises then you really do have a problem.

(It might help to know that I often just write stuff for the sake of debate.) I do carefully consider my vote at each election and it change it often.

Bile from me? Have you read this thread. I'm sorry if standing for good governance and standards offends you. I'm sorry for applying your standards for the government to the coalition. I'm sorry if you can accept three word sound bites as policy of leading this country. I'm not sorry for criticising anybody who displays a blatant double standard or anyone who throws around pointless comments and lefties. I'm not sorry for criticising anyone who cannot apply basic scrutiny to the answer they present to our current problems and who resort to name calling of anyone who does apply standards to their golden child.

This is the problem that most in this thread are stuck in the past. They are stuck on Gillard needs to go now and it should be "us" leading the country. That is a born to rule attitude - "it should be us". They're still in denial. They don't seem to understand that the ALP is gone and there is no point even thinking about them. What we need is to understand what we'll get instead.

If you want to go on a magic mystery tour lets consider the coalition's paid parental leave policy. It's a moving feast of hypocrisy.

This leave is going to be paid by a new "levy" of business. Coalition standard for the ALP: "Big new tax".

But that's ok: business will be compensated by reduced company tax. Coalition attack on the ETS: "it won't have any effect if you compensate people"

So paid parental leave is great big spending that is not supported by revenue. Yet the coalition criticises the ALP for under funded spending in relation to education and the NDIS.

Then we have this gem from Tony Abbott this morning. 'If a bloke gets paid holidays, why shouldn't a woman get paid parental leave?' WTF?! Talk about bringing envy into the debate. Even better a gender war. But let's ignore that the woman also gets that paid holiday. Don't bring in the question of financial need. No, lets have an open ended financial drain on taxpayer funds.

I could go on, but the point is I don't need to support either side to spot the gross hypocrisy for applying a standard to the other side while completely ignoring that same standard in those you support.

You accuse me of rationalizing broken promises, I think you'll find I can actually accept that things change. That I know "full steam ahead and damn the torpedoes" is not the answer. I also realise that the coalition only expects blind adherence to past policy because of the political advantage they gain. Come back and talk to me next January when the coalition has broken a swag of promises because things changed.

 

[Pushka]

(It might help to know that I often just write stuff for the sake of debate.) I do carefully consider my vote at each election and it change it often..

As do I. We agree at least, on that.

Bile from me? Have you read this thread.

Yes. Your posts assume that people who vote with the coalition are born to rules. That is in denial of their discussion points.

I'm sorry if standing for good governance and standards offends you.

Now this is the bit that leaves me dumbfounded. There is NOTHING that Gillard has done that has any sense of good governance, accountability, and political standards. Gillard has gone against many of the Labor principles in the last few years. They have spent relentlessly without due consideration of the financial reality - but their absurd predictions.

This is the problem that most in this thread are stuck in the past. They are stuck on Gillard needs to go now and it should be "us" leading the country. That is a born to rule attitude - "it should be us". They're still in denial. They don't seem to understand that the ALP is gone and there is no point even thinking about them. What we need is to understand what we'll get instead.

No, that is totally your interpretation. I was glad to see Howard go. He had overstayed his effectiveness.

If you want to go on a magic mystery tour lets consider the coalition's paid parental leave policy. It's a moving feast of hypocrisy.

The full facts of the policy have yet to be revealed. The intent of it is to encourage women on salaries to maintain a standard of living whilst having children. I rather think we should all wait until the FACTS are known and not jump to conclusions.

You accuse me of rationalizing broken promises, I think you'll find I can actually accept that things change. That I know "full steam ahead and damn the torpedoes" is not the answer. I also realise that the coalition only expects blind adherence to past policy because of the political advantage they gain. Come back and talk to me next January when the coalition has broken a swag of promises because things changed.

Of course things change. Like having to give up core policy issues and promises just so you can keep your position in power. If she was unable to broker a deal with the independents AND keep her core promises then she should have gone to the electorate again. And I also apply this criteria to the Coalition. If they had done a deal like Gillard did, and broken CORE promises then I would be angry with them too and if they had performed as poorly as this Government has, may well have voted Labor next time.

I dont care who is in power. I just want them to stick to CORE promises and be competent. That is the only way the electorate can TRULY know what it is exactly, they are voting for.

 

[lovestotravel]

This was the "funniest" budget I have ever seen

So much fail
So many LOLs

The final death knell for the ALP

Love it !

 

[vetrade]

It's laughable that you think you know how I vote. Truly bizarre. I guess that's why you can't back up you false statement here. Three word catch phrases how a failure of intellect. Interesting that you accuse people of holding a false feeling of intellectual superiority but then go ahead to proof it's not false.

Thanks for confirming you do have a feeling of intellectual superiority, medhead but you won’t surprise anyone with that confession – same as your inference that your allegiances are other than to the left side of politics. In both cases “res ipsa loquitur” applies. I think being argumentative is a bit of a compulsion for you but then you do a U turn and default to a middle of the road position to cast yourself as the intellectual arbiter of balanced argument, impartiality and reason. That is truly bizarre.

 

[drron]

Just a quick thought before taking mrsdrron out to lunch.
At the moment i would think this is Wayne Swan's best budget.
The language used however is terrible.
Increasing taxes or cutting tax deductions is not "savings".But at least there were some.
Revenue hasn't fallen.it just didn't go up as much as he and treasury thought.
For the proposed surplus to appear in 4 years requires China to grow strongly at least until then.I dont think that that is a certainty.

And just for the record.Medhead does like an argument.I know that for certain as I do as well.We all have our own biases.But I really dont think "born to rule"or "lefties" really are terrible insults.

 

[medhead]

Just a quick thought before taking mrsdrron out to lunch.
At the moment i would think this is Wayne Swan's best budget.
The language used however is terrible.
Increasing taxes or cutting tax deductions is not "savings".But at least there were some.
Revenue hasn't fallen.it just didn't go up as much as he and treasury thought.
For the proposed surplus to appear in 4 years requires China to grow strongly at least until then.I dont think that that is a certainty.

And just for the record.Medhead does like an argument.I know that for certain as I do as well.We all have our own biases.But I really dont think "born to rule"or "lefties" really are terrible insults.

If only he actually said savings. Instead he got "saves". I know he was educated in nambour. But there is no excuse for that cough.

I probably mean born to rule attitude. Given my capitalist tendancies, I really do object to leftie.

 

[medhead]

Thanks for confirming you do have a feeling of intellectual superiority, medhead but you won’t surprise anyone with that confession – same as your inference that your allegiances are other than to the left side of politics. In both cases “res ipsa loquitur” applies. I think being argumentative is a bit of a compulsion for you but then you do a U turn and default to a middle of the road position to cast yourself as the intellectual arbiter of balanced argument, impartiality and reason. That is truly bizarre.

I haven't "done a u turn". This thread is full of extreme right views shouting down any attempt to subject their preferred party to any scrutiny with things like Juliar and 3 words sound bites. Adopting an extreme left position is one response to such an approach. As I said you and the others seem to catch up in your hatred to actually bother to discuss topics. To actually even move past party political statements to consider the future. How about giving us your assessment of Abbott's performance or that of the future government? Probably too hard to do.