Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

[Skyring]

.... and anyone whom points any of these things out must be a misogynist or some represent some sort of vested interest.

This is what bugs me most. Labor - and their apologists - try to spin negatives as positives. Or ignore them.

Anything but tell the truth. "Yair, we really stuffed up there, didn't we? Sorry."

 

[JohnK]

Another thing I dislike on this thread is the vile comments made about Abbott when his competence as a PM has not been tested. I was happy to see Gillard have the opportunity, but well, look what happened there.

Perhaps it is the case of better the devil you know.

In my opinion Gillard should never have been Prime Minister and has had 2 terms too long in power. It is time for a change including from those hard core labour supporters.

And if Labour has left everything in a good state then Abbott's government would not be able to ruin everything in a term and people can decide again in 4 years.

Personally I think people are giving this election too much time rehashing the same things all over again.

 

[Skyring]

Personally I think people are giving this election too much time rehashing the same things all over again.

Mmmmm, I tend to agree, but when I look at some of the other long-running threads here, I think we might have a few obsessives in the membership.

 

[Newk]

Mmmmm, I tend to agree, but when I look at some of the other long-running threads here, I think we might have a few obsessives in the membership.

Not you of course Pete?

 

[Skyring]

Not you of course Pete?

Ah, you've got my number!

 

[Newk]

Ah, you've got my number!

Yeah. Some of the discussion here reminds me of the other place. The pointlessness of a discussion where neither "side" is ever going to change their views.

 

[Hvr]

Yeah. Some of the discussion here reminds me of the other place. The pointlessness of a discussion where neither "side" is ever going to change their views.

Agree, there are good and bad points to both sides. Neither of them is perfect and whilst Julia has made some mistakes at least she tried to do something unlike Howard and co including Abbott.

We are on the cusp of huge changes and we need leaders with vision and courage to try new things. I don't believe the Liberal's will do that.

I suggest Abbott is more concerned about personal power and glory than he is about Australia.

 

[Pushka]

Agree, there are good and bad points to both sides. Neither of them is perfect and whilst Julia has made some mistakes at least she tried to do something unlike Howard and co including Abbott.

We are on the cusp of huge changes and we need leaders with vision and courage to try new things. I don't believe the Liberal's will do that.

I suggest Abbott is more concerned about personal power and glory than he is about Australia.

I think you might have been asleep during the first few years of Howard's leadership. As far as personal power being put before Australia, well, that is one thing that Gillard has done admirably......

 

[Skyring]

I think you might have been asleep during the first few years of Howard's leadership. As far as personal power being put before Australia, well, that is one thing that Gillard has done admirably......

Just ask Kevin Rudd.

 

[Moody]

Just ask Kevin Rudd.

Kevin Rudd got the boot because he had lost the support of most of his colleagues. Pity that wasn't made clearer to the electorate at the time, but it was very clear to Rudd as he didn't bother to contest the ballot. But his major mistake was thinking that all was forgiven later ..... which ended up with the Labour party airing some very dirty laundry. We know that these sort of things go on in every party but we don't need to see it, and very few came out of it with any dignity.

Tawdry? - yes. Does it impact the running of the country? - possibly. Does it make Tony "I'll do nothing in my first term" Abbott any more appealing? - no comment.

 

[medhead]

Kevin Rudd got the boot because he had lost the support of most of his colleagues. Pity that wasn't made clearer to the electorate at the time, but it was very clear to Rudd as he didn't bother to contest the ballot.

The electorates views were very clear. They did after all coin terms like Krudd. The public wanted him gone just as much as the ALP. Just a shame that people forget this, we might say conveniently.

As for this BS about hanging onto power at any cost. Anyone who spins that yarn clearly has very little idea about politics. All politicians crave power, even St Abbott. He tried just as hard to form government. His problem was trying to win over those who he'd dumped on in the past.

In any case, the very people who we need running this country will not put themselves forward due to their very nature. The qualities that qualify them are the same that mean they don't seek office.

 

[Pushka]

In any case, the very people who we need running this country will not put themselves forward due to their very nature. The qualities that qualify them are the same that mean they don't seek office.

Now on this I totally agree.

The electorate did know that KRudd had lost his enchantment but it was the manner in which he was dismissed that made people think again. But also at the time as I've said, I was looking forward to see how Gillard performed. Those high hopes were soon dismissed in a haze of incompetence.

 

[serfty]

Hang on at all costs? [Keeping to the mushroom principle with fellow party members.]

Article doing the rounds today that the ALP hierarchy are avoiding doing planned targeted polling lest it undermine the PM's position within the Party.

The Liberals own polls have apparently have found a winning 2pc lead in the seat of ISAACS - as far as I can tell, if such a swing were repeated throughout Oz, the election result could be similar to the rout with the last QLD election.

Labor heads are in the sand | thetelegraph.com.au

It may be firewalled - here's a precis:

SENIOR Labor MPs have accused party officials of deliberately delaying polling key marginal seats over fears that the results would be so bad it could spark renewed questions over Julia Gillard's leadership.

... signs that a new factional brawl threatens to break out within the party before the election.

A meeting of the federal election campaign committee on Friday was told that a decision on the next round of internal polling in key Victorian marginal seats would not be made for at least a month - after the last parliamentary sitting week.
...


Ssources revealed that a "robust" meeting was held in which some MPs demanded that polling be done immediately so they could know which seats were salvageable. They revealed that internal polling in all states other than NSW had been deliberately suppressed or delayed until after the last leadership challenge, to deny Kevin Rudd ammunition.

...

In Victoria, polling meant to be done three months ago has not been conducted, with some figures accusing factional leaders in Canberra of trying to delay the process to protect Ms Gillard from another challenge.

Recent Liberal polling has revealed that the Coalition is now ahead in Mr Dreyfus's seat of Isaacs by 2 per cent.

Labor also fears that Corangamite and Corio, centred around Geelong, are now lost along with Latrobe and Deakin.

"There appears to be a mass outbreak of amnesia in the party," said one senior Labor source. ...

 

[serfty]

Re: Hang on at all costs? [Keeping to the mushroom principle with fellow party membe

...
The Liberals own polls have apparently have found a winning 2pc lead in the seat of ISAACS - as far as I can tell, if such a swing were repeated throughout Oz, the election result could be similar to the rout with the last QLD election. ...

That's 12.4% - even beyong the 10% max of Anthony Greens Election calculator.

Antony Green's Election Calculator - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

 

[Pushka]

Such a great swing isn't always a good thing for Governance. A strong opposition is a good thing too. I'm guessing Gillard's seat is a heavily fortified Labor one?

 

[Hvr]

Such a great swing isn't always a good thing for Governance. A strong opposition is a good thing too. I'm guessing Gillard's seat is a heavily fortified Labor one?

Agree, QLD shows what happens when there is no effective opposition.

Yes Gillard's seat is very strongly Labor and won't change.

 

[JohnK]

Mmmmm, I tend to agree, but when I look at some of the other long-running threads here, I think we might have a few obsessives in the membership.

I agree with you.

The status fix helps....

 

[drron]

Mmmmm, I tend to agree, but when I look at some of the other long-running threads here, I think we might have a few obsessives in the membership.

I object.I am compulsive.

 

[Skyring]

Kevin Rudd got the boot because he had lost the support of most of his colleagues.

Well there's two things to say about that.

First, why did he lose the support? Not just of his colleagues, but of the voters. His numbers were dropping. It wasn't like the weather going up and down - it wasn't just chance that Rudd lost so much support that he was booted out. He began so amazingly well, with a huge mandate, every government in Australia on his side, a massive desire for change, the Opposition in disarray. He could have done anything - referendums, machinery of government changes, significant reforms. Yet two years later and it had all gone. Nothing had happened beyond a few speeches. Any ideas why things turned to custard?

Second. It says a lot about the desire for power that Gillard moved at all. This isn't a step anybody would take lightly, especially in government. There has to be a reason. Would you like to talk about that reason?

Third, I guess, is Rudd's extraordinary behaviour ever since. That deserves some comment.

 

[medhead]

Well there's two things to say about that.

First, why did he lose the support? Not just of his colleagues, but of the voters.

He also lost the support of the public service. That the Commonwealth Nuclear Safety Agency was giving him 6 hourly updates on fukushima* (This is on the public record), when he was foreign minister might explain why those working for him and with him wanted him gone.


* An issue that was publicly topical but represented zero to very little risk to Australia, hence not warranting 6 hourly updates. Maybe daily....