Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

[drron]

I think once Asylum seekers have sought asylum from Australia, putting them anywhere other than Australian soil is inhumane.

Then again, it could be worse, the Government could be excluding Australian soil from Australian Migration Zone.

Chris Bowen has already done that-
Australian mainland to be excised from migration zone - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Mainland removed from zone for asylum seekers

 

[SQ421]

And of course I presume you know Tony Abbott and Peter Slipper well.If not your comments are pure speculation.

Both the Quotes attributed to Tony Abbott are available on the internet. One, in a campaign video, the other, in a news article. Question remains, if Tony knew of Slippers problems dating back to 2003, why was he not removed in the two elections since, ignoring the 2010 one.

Contrast that to the case of Craig Thomson who was preselected although the allegations of his misuse of Union funds was well known and had been printed in that bastion of right wing journalism-the Sydney Morning Herald.

CT should never have been preselected. (un)Fortunately, now that he is an elected member, there he must remain untill he resigns or conditions force him to vacate his seat.

---

I'll definitely read that link, thanks.

 

[SQ421]

Chris Bowen has already done that-
Australian mainland to be excised from migration zone - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Mainland removed from zone for asylum seekers

Ah, I knew I'd read something to that effect, just wasn't certain if I'd read that for real, or if it was a parody on The Onion.

 

[amaroo]

Member for Dobell who, might I had, is yet to be found guilty of anything. The Leader of the Opposition went so far as to suggest that the Member for Dobell be removed from the Parliament while the allegations were probed further, effectively disenfranchising the citizens of the Division of Dobell. .

The member for Dobell........yes, he deserves our sympathy Julia obviously didn't have any - slowly judged him guilty & cast him adrift from the ALP

Do you think Eddie is a fit & proper person to see in Parliament? Maybe Julia will make him the first Senate pick for NSW - the first Lebanese Christian elected to Parliament.....worked a treat for Nova.

 

[drron]

Tony Abbott was not the Liberal leader in the elections prior to 2010.Again it was well known that Peter Slipper had worked the numbers in the local branches.When Mal Brough lost in the 2007 election he moved to the Fisher electorate-his previous abode at Glasshouse was sometimes in and sometimes out of Fisher.He then started organising new members for the Fisher branches.Again understood in the electorate that he had the backing of,indeed may have been urged to by,Tony Abbott.
As to your quotations-do you really think that a leader of a political party in an election campaign is going to come out and say our candidate is a thoroughly distasteful fellow?Well i'll tell you-you are dreaming.

 

[SQ421]

The member for Dobell........yes, he deserves our sympathy Julia obviously didn't have any - slowly judged him guilty & cast him adrift from the ALP

Relevance? Either you believe in presumption of innocence and apply it across the board or you pick and choose the circumstances where it should be extended. I lean towards the former.

Do you think Eddie is a fit & proper person to see in Parliament? Maybe Julia will make him the first Senate pick for NSW - the first Lebanese Christian elected to Parliament.....worked a treat for Nova.

Again, relevance?

I've already stated that Thomson should not have been picked. But I also believe that once he is an elected representative, no one has any business telling him he can't represent his electors absent a constitutionally valid reason that requires him to be removed form the HoR.

Fortunately, Tony Abbott throwing the longest dummy spit of his life for not getting the prize is not a valid enough reason.

 

[SQ421]

Tony Abbott was not the Liberal leader in the elections prior to 2010.Again it was well known that Peter Slipper had worked the numbers in the local branches.When Mal Brough lost in the 2007 election he moved to the Fisher electorate-his previous abode at Glasshouse was sometimes in and sometimes out of Fisher.He then started organising new members for the Fisher branches.Again understood in the electorate that he had the backing of,indeed may have been urged to by,Tony Abbott.
As to your quotations-do you really think that a leader of a political party in an election campaign is going to come out and say our candidate is a thoroughly distasteful fellow?Well i'll tell you-you are dreaming.

Well, then for Tony to say Slipper was being removed (in 2012) because of his behaviour dating back to 2003 is incorrect, isn't it (Especially as the Liberal Party, apparently the bastion of virtue in Australian Politics - sat on it for a decade). Likely, he was being removed to usher Mal Brough in via a safe liberal seat with an expendable member. To allude his removal to his antics is post-facto rationalisation and nothing else.

 

[amaroo]

Relevance? Either you believe in presumption of innocence and apply it across the board or you pick and choose the circumstances where it should be extended. I lean towards the former.

Ask yourself why JG got rid of him?

Dead set, it's not that hard to work out! It's really the only call that she's got right.....

 

[SQ421]

Ask yourself why JG got rid of him?

Dead set, it's not that hard to work out! It's really the only call that she's got right.....

Again, getting rid of him from the Party is a political decision (one that should've been made before 2010 elections, but better now than after "having known about his problems" for a decade).

And doesn't have nearly the same implications as calling for his vote to not be counted. Thomson is entitled to remain in HoR untill he resigns, loses his seat, declares bankruptcy, or is found guilty of an offence that carries a jail term of more than a year. Perhaps Thomson should enlist the QC that helped Sen. Mary Jo Fisher escape with a "no conviction recorded" outcome.

 

[amaroo]

And doesn't have nearly the same implications as calling for his vote to not be counted.

If you believe the press - its the very thing JA has ensured by naming the election date. Robert McClelland's pending resignation prior to June 2013 will result in a by-election however shifty JA has ensured the good people of Barton will be unrepresented from June..... We will see if the press has this correct!

Thomson should enlist the QC that helped Sen. Mary Jo Fisher escape with a "no conviction recorded" outcome.

IMHO there is a massive difference between someone suffering from depression/panic attack/mental issue.......and someone misusing union funds.

Oh, there is another difference - she resigned!

Are you really suggesting that the Fisher issue is as serious as Thompson?

 

[seanpodge]

What was the outcome of that case? I'd think (and I hope!) a news outlet is protected form litigation while repeating allegations, as long as it doesn't pass them as facts and does the needful to state that the allegations are in fact allegations.

I'd hope not, actually. It would allow any media outlet to smear people as long as they throw in an "allegedly" somewhere in the article. Since we're meant to be dealing with professional journalists here, I'd expect them at least to be able to back up any allegations with some evidence. Then again, the whole Australian media whipped themselves up into a frenzy about the AWU-Gillard slush fund smear despite the case being dismissed by the police years ago and the only believers in it being blatantly partisan right wing culture warriors who are still throwing their toys out of the pram because the Coalition didn't win the last election. Meanwhile, try finding a story about Mal Brough these days despite a judge actually fingering him........

A concept lost on the Leader of the Opposition and his friends in the blogosphere Akerman, Bolt and Devine, when it comes extending the same presumption to the Member for Dobell who, might I had, is yet to be found guilty of anything. The Leader of the Opposition went so far as to suggest that the Member for Dobell be removed from the Parliament while the allegations were probed further, effectively disenfranchising the citizens of the Division of Dobell. Then we also got the comic relief of watching two grown men run for the door as if a laxative had just kicked in; all in an effort to give us the impression that Abbott would never accept a "tainted" vote. This, from a man who had no qualms about counting Slipper's vote as his own until such a point that Slipper decided to watch out for his own future and accepted the Speaker's chair. At which point, suddenly, Slipper went from someone who was "doing great work for Members of Fisher and for us there in Canberra" (Abbott's Quote from the 2010 Campaign) to someone who "has had problems for a while and we in the Liberal Party have been well aware of them, which is why we were getting rid of him" (Abbott's more recent Quote). At least the presumption of innocence (or perhaps, wilful ignorance) was offered to Peter Slipper, while it was convenient!

Or Sen. Mary Jo Fisher, who was actually found guilty of assault (although not formally convicted and so got the chance to retire when she got busted for shoplifting in a separate incident).

Now to a more recent ABC version of the truth.The amazing response to the leaked discussion paper on Australia's north by the LNP coalition.I really loved how everyone on ABC 24 last night was ridiculing tax concessions for those in the North.Funny that if I work in Mt.Isa or Broken hill I get a tax rebate for working in a remote area-it is already part of the tax law that Wayne Swan administers.Amazing that none of his ministers nor ABC journalists are aware of this.

Whilst I haven't read the document in question, I think Rinehart (let's not waste time pretending that the Coalition is coming up with such ideas independently) is advocating something a bit more radical than a remote workplace tax concession and would actually like something that looks alot like a two tier tax code. This is something that is a bit more out there and is likely to run into trouble. One such issue is whether it is constitutionally valid. The constitution prohibits discrimination between the states and having large swathes of two states (plus the whole NT) running under a different tax system to the rest of Australia is alot different to a tightly targeted, non state based tax concession.

IMHO there is a massive difference between someone suffering from depression/panic attack/mental issue.......and someone misusing union funds.

Oh, there is another difference - she resigned!

Are you really suggesting that the Fisher issue is as serious as Thompson?

1. We don't know the full story about the Thompson-HSU at the moment. That's why we have independent courts to investigate such things rather than letting the Coalition and News Ltd decide what's what. I seem to remember alot of noise about Slipper and sexual harassment from both sources before the verdict was given. Both seem a bit quiet about that now, oddly enough......

2. Fisher only resigned a year later after being caught a second time shoplifting and presumably thinking (probably quite correctly) that she wasn't going to escape a conviction this time around, which would have automatically had her kicked out of parliament.

 

[Sprucegoose]

Two different things.

All members of parliament are voted in by their constituents, i.e. members of the public. The party who has the majority of the seats in the lower house forms government. The conservative (Liberal party) side of government cannot govern it its own right, they have a coalition with the agrarian socialists (National party, aka Country party).

The Labor party got the most members together to vote for them. They have governed since the last election. Any suggestion that the Labor party was not voted in by the public ignores the facts,

You have no respects sic for her. Well that is your opinion, others have different opinions and we get to air them here.

As the old saying goes, opinions are like bum holes, everybody has one.

The liberal party won more seats than the labor party at the last election so you may wish to revise your comments!!

 

[amaroo]

1. We don't know the full story about the Thompson-HSU at the moment. That's why we have independent courts to investigate such things rather than letting the Coalition and News Ltd decide what's what. I seem to remember alot of noise about Slipper and sexual harassment from both sources before the verdict was given. Both seem a bit quiet about that now, oddly enough......

Didn't stop JG cutting them both loose.....it wasn't the coalition or News that appointed then decapitated.

. Fisher only resigned a year later after being caught a second time shoplifting and presumably thinking (probably quite correctly) that she wasn't going to escape a conviction this time around, which would have automatically had her kicked out of parliament.

Mental problems......IMO not something we should be posting about.

 

[Hvr]

The liberal party won more seats than the labor party at the last election so you may wish to revise your comments!!

Actually the Labor party has 71 members in the lower house and the Liberal party has 44 members.

The conservative parties coalition have 72 members.
Coalition (72)

​

Liberal (44)

​

LNP (20)

​

Nationals (6)

​

Nat. WA (1)

​

CLP (1)


That leaves seven members, the majority of whom decided to support the labor party.
Crossbench (7)

​

Ind. (5)

​

Greens (1)

​

KAP (1)


That the majority of members decided to support the Labor party means they get to form government. Simple really,

 

[Deleted member]

Actually the Labor party has 71 members in the lower house and the Liberal party has 44 members.

The conservative parties coalition have 72 members.
Coalition (72)

​

Liberal (44)

​

LNP (20)

​

Nationals (6)

​

Nat. WA (1)

​

CLP (1)


That leaves seven members, the majority of whom decided to support the labor party.
Crossbench (7)

​

Ind. (5)

​

Greens (1)

​

KAP (1)


That the majority of members decided to support the Labor party means they get to form government. Simple really,

Even if it was against the wishes of the constituents.

 

[Deleted member]

Independent in Australia. Politics has become to mean, I don't like following the party line. Even though that's how I got here on the first place.
The Brian Harridean's of this world are rare indeed.

 

[Hvr]

Even if it was against the wishes of the constituents.

Which constituents? The majority of voters in each seat got their chosen member. Those who vote for independents know they have to align themselves with one of the major party groups, i.e. Labor or conservative to be heard.

I'd suggest that the ability of Julia Gillard to form a coalition and hold it together for the life of the parliament is an achievement in itself. Tony Abbott couldn't form a coalition with the independent members and he desperately tried with offers of huge cash expenditure to their electorates.

She has also been able to achieve the great majority of her party's legislative agenda despite everything. The country has survived the global financial crisis with other countries looking to us for inspiration.

The endless negativity by the conservative side of politics surely reflects badly on them as they continually talk down the country.

 

[drron]

Again, getting rid of him from the Party is a political decision (one that should've been made before 2010 elections, but better now than after "having known about his problems" for a decade).

And doesn't have nearly the same implications as calling for his vote to not be counted. Thomson is entitled to remain in HoR untill he resigns, loses his seat, declares bankruptcy, or is found guilty of an offence that carries a jail term of more than a year. Perhaps Thomson should enlist the QC that helped Sen. Mary Jo Fisher escape with a "no conviction recorded" outcome.

The only problem with this comment is a recent report that senior police intervened so that Senator Fisher was charged.The arresting officers did not think the offence warranted it as did the magistrate calling the charge trifling.But of course this revelation comes courtesy of News ltd so obviously not believable.
Cookies must be enabled. | The Australian

Of course if you want to bring into question all the nasty Liberal crooks you had better be prepared for others mentioning those on the ALP side.In QLD this would shock,horror bring into question of just how squeaky clean a certain K Rudd is.If not from QLD you may not of heard of the Heiner affair.the whistleblowers blog is here if you want to wade through it
The Heiner Affair 2012 Special Commentary by Whistleblower Kevin Lindeberg

But briefly the Heiner inquiry was into child sexual abuse at Wacol.On getting into government the Goss cabinet shredded all the documents of that inquiry.It is also alledged that the Goss cabinet also had in it's possession submissions to the previous governments cabinet submissions-something that is only supposed to happen with the previous Government's permission which hadn't even been asked.K Rudd was the Director General of the Cabinet office.

The Newman government has an Inquiry now into all of this.maybe another bomb that will explode pre 14/9.
And just in case the present governments apologists think so what the original Inquiry was into the rape of a 19 year old indigenous woman in government care.

 

[Pushka]

The liberal party won more seats than the labor party at the last election so you may wish to revise your comments!!

An inconvenient truth.

As regards Mary Jo Fisher, in SA now there is currently a police investigation for abuse of power of a senior police officer. Seems prosecution said they didn't have enough evidence for a conviction. But someone senior refused to drop the case because he wanted to get 'someone big' to improve his chances of promotion.

 

[SQ421]

Are you really suggesting that the Fisher issue is as serious as Thompson?

I don't get to decide. Neither does Tony Abbott.

If one gets convicted of an offence that carries a sentence of more than a year in prison, they get turfed out. The constitution doesn't make a distinction between the severity of the offence.