Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

[Sprucegoose]

Even if it was against the wishes of the constituents.

Quite so. There will be an accounting for that at or before 14 sept 13.

 

[Sprucegoose]

On two party preferred Labor beat the coalition.

It's a bit disingenuous to use "Coalition" figures that combine Liberal and National Party numbers without doing the same on the other side. Labor and The Greens have formed a coalition in government so you need to add their vote to the Labor vote if that's how you are counting it.

In votes cast: Labor + Greens earned more votes than The Liberal Party + The National Party + The Country Liberal Party NT + Liberal National Party Queensland combined. You can even throw in the National Party of WA and the coalition still falls behind.

If you want to chose largest party v. Largest Party the ALP out polled the Liberals by more than 7 percent.

I wasn't aware the labor Greens 'coalition' was registered and regularised as such? The 'coalition' as the population understand the popular term refers to conservative side of politics.

 

[Sprucegoose]

So, a bill was proposed, discussed, and is being further worked upon before being enacted into Law. Parliamentary process is working.




A concept lost on the Leader of the Opposition and his friends in the blogosphere Akerman, Bolt and Devine, when it comes extending the same presumption to the Member for Dobell who, might I had, is yet to be found guilty of anything. The Leader of the Opposition went so far as to suggest that the Member for Dobell be removed from the Parliament while the allegations were probed further, effectively disenfranchising the citizens of the Division of Dobell. Then we also got the comic relief of watching two grown men run for the door as if a laxative had just kicked in; all in an effort to give us the impression that Abbott would never accept a "tainted" vote. This, from a man who had no qualms about counting Slipper's vote as his own until such a point that Slipper decided to watch out for his own future and accepted the Speaker's chair. At which point, suddenly, Slipper went from someone who was "doing great work for Members of Fisher and for us there in Canberra" (Abbott's Quote from the 2010 Campaign) to someone who "has had problems for a while and we in the Liberal Party have been well aware of them, which is why we were getting rid of him" (Abbott's more recent Quote). At least the presumption of innocence (or perhaps, wilful ignorance) was offered to Peter Slipper, while it was convenient!




While not an excuse, it is nothing new for the leaders to be unaware of or be knowingly ignorant of the very laws they administer. I get the same cringeworthy feeling every time the wannabe Prime Minister bleats on about "illegal" arrivals and "turning back the boats".

Either Tony Abbott (he of yeoman Ministerial Experience) is absolutely not aware that
a) There is nothing illegal about seeking asylum, nor anything illegal about the manner i which it is done
b) Navy won't tow the boats back to Indonesia, in fact, Navy is required to offer assistance to any vessel in distress in times of peace.

So, here we have, Tony, claiming he'll order Navy to tow back the boats, putting sailors in a position of disobeying orders or potentially being charged with crimes against humanity for which, "I was merely following orders" has not been an acceptable defence since the fifth decade of the 20th century.

I don't think he's unaware of those facts. I do think he's willingly ignoring the facts to pander to the voters swayed by three word slogans, who happen to be too dumb to comprehend the fourth.

Regardless of any merit in your missive temp protection visas will be reintroduced when the 'coalition' assumes power to continue on the previously successful policy of keeping asylum seekers safer.

 

[drron]

Obviously: Sen Fisher has been convicted. Mr Thompson remains innocent until proven guilty. The law is unequivocal in that respect.

Wrong.No conviction was recorded.The law is pretty unequivocal on that point also.She is no longer facing any charges so at this point in time it is utterly ridiculous comparing her case with craig Thomsons.

 

[777]

I wasn't aware the labor Greens 'coalition' was registered and regularised as such? The 'coalition' as the population understand the popular term refers to conservative side of politics.

The more i read the grievances of conservative supporters about the last election result the more convinced they have no idea how the Australian system of democracy works. The term coalition simply means an alliance of separate political parties. The Liberal, National, Country Liberal NT, Liberal National Party (Qld) and Nationals (WA) (5 separate registered political parties) if they chose to act together and support each other are a coalition. The same term applies to any the Labor party and any party or parties it might chose to align with - in this case The Greens.

AFAIK there is no system in Australia for "registering and regularising" a coalition agreement beyond voting together in parliament. In some states the Liberal and National parties enter into a coalition agreement formally (which is basically just an agreement between them) even when they are out of office. In other states and at other times the agreement only applies if and when they can form a government together. In some cases such as with the Nationals in WA in this federal parliament and recently in South Australia they act independently of the Liberals entirely. From memory an election or two ago the National party in South Australia actually had a minister in a Labor state government.

Basic maths: The parties that support the government got a larger share of the vote in the last election than the parties that form the opposition. That is true both in first preference and two party preferred terms.

 

[777]

Wrong.No conviction was recorded.The law is pretty unequivocal on that point also.She is no longer facing any charges so at this point in time it is utterly ridiculous comparing her case with craig Thompsons.

You are correct. She was found guilty of assault but no conviction was recorded. Craig Thompson remains innocent until proven guilty though.

 

[HarryB]

Craig Thompson remains innocent until proven guilty though.

And no matter what side of politics you lean towards, no one in their right mind can believe he will get a fair trial. Both major party leaders have effectively found him guilty and the main stream media have had a field day with it. If this ends up with a jury trial Thomson will be found guilty no matter how strong his defense is. I think his best chance is the evidence being weak enough that it gets thrown out of court like the Slipper/Ashby debacle ... And I think that's unlikely

 

[Pukka]

And no matter what side of politics you lean towards, no one in their right mind can believe he will get a fair trial. Both major party leaders have effectively found him guilty and the main stream media have had a field day with it. If this ends up with a jury trial Thomson will be found guilty no matter how strong his defense is. I think his best chance is the evidence being weak enough that it gets thrown out of court like the Slipper/Ashby debacle ... And I think that's unlikely

Agreed now do us all a favour and remove that awful avatar I didn't come all the way from Sunderland to look at Newcastle badges in Australia

 

[HarryB]

Agreed now do us all a favour and remove that awful avatar I didn't come all the way from Sunderland to look at Newcastle badges in Australia

If only I could make it bigger to rile your mackem cough some more

 

[Hvr]

You are correct. She was found guilty of assault but no conviction was recorded. <snip>

So can she use the ESTA to visit the USA?

 

[JessicaTam]

So can she use the ESTA to visit the USA?

I don't think so because she has been found guilty of 'moral turpitude' even though there has been no conviction.

 

[amaroo]

So can she use the ESTA to visit the USA?

Shouldn't be that hard to work around.....seems pretty easy for court ruled assault & bankrupts to access the USA -
nick d'arcy and kenrick monk - Google Search

 

[Deleted member]

And the greens and ALP have formed a government by combining. Six of one, half a dozen of the other.

To over simplify it: there are two sides of parliament. The one with the most votes and members forms government. You can't count all the voters on one side and not count all the voters on the other.

Yes you can, when the conservative coalition has been just hat inside and out of government, labor only gets into bed when they need the numbers.

 

[Hvr]

Yes you can, when the conservative coalition has been just hat inside and out of government, labor only gets into bed when they need the numbers.

And very successfully done as well. A legitimate government was formed (despite what Abbott and the Liberal party say!) and the Labor government in conjunction with the independents have achieved their legislative agenda. This has been for the betterment of Australia and shows we are a mature nation which can handle unusual circumstances which have thwarted other countries.

 

[Pukka]

To over simplify it: there are two sides of parliament. The one with the most votes and members forms government.

Good so hopefully that means Gillard will get kicked from here to Timbuktu along with the rest of the self serving shower of half wits and we can get a pro business government. And I hope the independents get crucified too but I think that's inevitable except Katter.

 

[Deleted member]

And very successfully done as well. A legitimate government was formed (despite what Abbott and the Liberal party say!) and the Labor government in conjunction with the independents have achieved their legislative agenda. This has been for the betterment of Australia and shows we are a mature nation which can handle unusual circumstances which have thwarted other countries.

Mmmm I somehow don't think the electorate in Majority agree with you.
Don't get me wrong, I am not philosophically opposed to a labour government per se. Just this one.
Lib or labour, the lucky country keeps out of trouble by digging bigger holes and sending it overseas. Not by any clever bunch running things in Canberra. Sometimes I think this nations wealth is a curse, it makes for a lazy and unimaginative bunch of pollies

 

[Hvr]

<snip> Sometimes I think this nations wealth is a curse, it makes for a lazy and unimaginative bunch of pollies

On this we are in furious agreement. We need a fifty year plan where the general principles of what will be achieved and what standard of living is desired.

But when you can't even get agreement on whether or not climate change is real let alone what to do about then I despair for this country. Where are the Snowy Mountain project equivalents for the future nation building? Where is the vision from either party? NBN is a small thing that needed doing but the controversy it attracts for various reasons inhibits future governments from launching a long term nation building project for new infrastructure.

John Howard wasted so many years maintaining the status quo it wasn't funny. Nothing visionary in his wasted years at all. None of his ministers had the courage to challenge him (Abbott included) and they probably lost a chance (albeit slim) to maintain government. Yet they whinge long and loudly about the PM who did have the courage to challenge her leader. I think they hate her for this more than anything. She is better at playing politics they they are.

 

[Pukka]

If only I could make it bigger to rile your mackem cough some more

Mmm well it's 12am and Spurs are already 1-0 over the Toon I might stay up to watch a bit more Mags pain & miss Sland v coughnal lol

 

[amaroo]

On this we are in furious agreement. We need a fifty year plan where the general principles of what will be achieved and what standard of living is desired.

But when you can't even get agreement on whether or not climate change is real let alone what to do about then I despair for this country. Where are the Snowy Mountain project equivalents for the future nation building? Where is the vision from either party? NBN is a small thing that needed doing but the controversy it attracts for various reasons inhibits future governments from launching a long term nation building project for new infrastructure.

John Howard wasted so many years maintaining the status quo it wasn't funny. Nothing visionary in his wasted years at all. None of his ministers had the courage to challenge him (Abbott included) and they probably lost a chance (albeit slim) to maintain government. Yet they whinge long and loudly about the PM who did have the courage to challenge her leader. I think they hate her for this more than anything. She is better at playing politics they they are.

hahaha - lets see how many more terms the ALP get.

 

[HarryB]

Mmm well it's 12am and Spurs are already 1-0 over the Toon I might stay up to watch a bit more Mags pain & miss Sland v coughnal lol

Aha ... Spoke too soon