Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

[Skyring]

"Economist Stephen Koukoulas has noted almost $40 of the $96 billion in debt inherited by the Coalition in 1996 was a leftover from the Fraser government in the early 1980s, when John Howard was treasurer."

I remember that. I rang up Costello and said i could cover the leftover myself. Glad to help out.

 

[drsmithy]

Really

Because this is completely contrary to experiences in my 22 years on this earth...

Most religions come with "spread the word" and "convert the heathens" directives. Some pursue it with more vigor than others.

Can't say I've ever had a bunch of atheists come around to my house and try to convert me. Yet religious people do it all the time.

What irrational atheist [lack of] beliefs have been forced upon you ?

 

[Moody]

I did catch some of it, not sure how much i missed, but think i saw quite a bit of it... What about it?

Interesting to get a neutral opinion of the government performance, and that of Julia Gillard. He also raised doubts about whether Tony Abbott had the skills and temperament to keep a minority government together.

Right now the leadership of the ALP is not about What is good for us as citizens But about ego and power I for one would like to see the people have a mechanism that would allow them to ( peacefully) rise up and depose a dysfunctional government.

I assume this is a pizztake, but if not then let me be the first volunteer to peacefully rise up and depose a dysfunctional opposition and their cheer squad. Actually I may be bending the "peacefully" definition, as Alan Jones gets the chaff bag, Howard Sattler and Piers Akerman get 1000 angry hairdressers armed with scissors, etc.

 

[amaroo]

Wonder what Trish Crossin thinks about Fair Work Australia

Swan, Emerson, Howes remind me of Comical Ali Iraq's Comical Ali - YouTube

 

[medhead]

A short step back in as I've just remember the minority government situation. That explains the eagerness of the coalition cheer squad for a leadership change in the ALP. What were those comments about anything to gain power? Including a constitutional crisis it seems. Still shouldn't be surprised the liberals have form on this manner of gaining government. Interesting that Abbott wants to become PM on a technicality on the eve of an election.

 

[docjames]

So do we think KRudd will topple JG before the election is called?

 

[Skyring]

Swan, Emerson, Howes remind me of Comical Ali Iraq's Comical Ali - YouTube

Thanks for that! I used to love that guy - he'd happily declare that Iraq was winning even as the roof fell in and we were getting live feeds from tank battalions in the Baghdad suburbs. Julia Gillard should hire him as her PR straightman.

Oh. Maybe she did.

 

[Pushka]

I don't think anyone has the skills to keep a minority government together. I don't think either Gillard nor Abbott had the capacity to manage the competing relationships successfully without compromising on core values. Which is why I think minority governments are an artefact and should require an immediate re-election process.

Given that this Government ensured that single mothers were required to seek work once their youngest started school, (something I dont have an issue with but not sure why a Labor Government implemented that change) then why are the Unions running with that TV ad that shows a school sports competition with the mother missing?

 

[oz_mark]

So do we think KRudd will topple JG before the election is called?

If you were KRudd, would you do so?

 

[Skyring]

If you were KRudd, would you do so?

Perish the thought! Kevin Rudd displays typical obsessive-compulsive egocentric behaviour. He sees himself as the rightful Prime Minister and will take any road to regain the position. His poor behaviour in leaking against Julia Gillard during the 2010 election made this clear. He has made two attempts to topple Gillard and a third is only a few hours or days away, judging by his heightened public profile. He is hoping that enough backbenchers in fear of losing their seats in the coming landslide will stand up to declare for him that Gillard will voluntarily vacate the position.

That's how I see it.

Whether the ALP is stupid enough to take him on again remains to be seen.

 

[drsmithy]

So do we think KRudd will topple JG before the election is called?

I don't think he's that silly. The ALP "faceless men" screwed him the first time, I don't think he'll fall for it again.

 

[drsmithy]

But to down play the role of the Libs as mere till holders is a bit rich...

Because their other notable achievements have been...?

 

[Limewood]

No Rudder can all go down with the ship

 

[dajop]

Whether the ALP is stupid enough to take him on again remains to be seen.

Would they be stupid though? If ALP were close to victory, or close enough to only lose 10 seats , they would be stupid to take him on. Absolutely. But with a guaranteed bloodbath the question is can Krudd salvage of few seats or not? He is an ego-maniac /oc etc, but many would argue he is a better communicator than JG. Perhaps, what the ALP need (but don't have), is someone (anyone? ) other than JG or KR .

 

[casanovawa]

Who knows if he will challenge or not, i think all rational thought has just about deserted Labor as panic and/or demoralisation have set it...

While it may save a few seats, how much permanent damage will it do to the Labor brand that they knifed two PMs prior to consecutive elections and gave the coup de grace to the country's first female prime minister... Those things stick in people's minds for a long time and go into the history books...

And sure as day follows night the knives will be being sharpened for a repeat performance on him unless he jumps ship voluntarily...

 

[Moody]

I don't think anyone has the skills to keep a minority government together. I don't think either Gillard nor Abbott had the capacity to manage the competing relationships successfully without compromising on core values. Which is why I think minority governments are an artefact and should require an immediate re-election process.

Au contraire! I have mostly enjoyed this minority government .... apart from Labour's woeful PR and communication skills, which have been the major drag on getting good legislation through. Media reforms being their biggest failure followed by BOTH mining taxes in no particular order.


Anyway - a minority government is a far, far better prospect than one ideology having control of both houses of parliament.

Given that this Government ensured that single mothers were required to seek work once their youngest started school, (something I dont have an issue with but not sure why a Labor Government implemented that change) then why are the Unions running with that TV ad that shows a school sports competition with the mother missing?

What is the problem with having a good work ethic AND workplace flexibility? Just requires a bit of commitment from both sides, doesn't it?

 

[drsmithy]

I don't think anyone has the skills to keep a minority government together.

Many European countries get by with lots of small parties just fine.

In fact, I'd argue it's a _vastly_ superior situation to the two-party systems that seem endemic to the Anglo world.

Given that this Government ensured that single mothers were required to seek work once their youngest started school, (something I dont have an issue with but not sure why a Labor Government implemented that change) then why are the Unions running with that TV ad that shows a school sports competition with the mother missing?

Well, your main mistake is probably assuming that the Labor party of today bears much resemblance to the Labor party of twenty years ago. Labor's been little more than Liberals Lite for a good decade now.

 

[casanovawa]

And whether Tony had the temprament to run a minority government is a bit irrelevant as i don't think he would've and i doin't think his supporters would have wanted to him to make the compromises with the Greens that would have been necessary to do so, Labor could at least attempt to do so as they are somewhat similar travellers on the left with the greens skirting out to the looney side of it... So yes the minority government probably wouldn't have worked with Tony as PM as he quite rightly would probably have sent it back to the people as soon as he could where they would have most likely happily rectified that problem...

It demonstrates again what a sub optimal arrangement minority government is where the amount of compromises that has to be done leaves most people unsatisfied and with a bad taste in their mouths... After all a certain amount of the legislation has been dominated by the Greens, a bunch of wacko's that the majority of the people did not vote for and wanted no where near the lever of powers... Similarly outside of their electorate no gave a rat's rear orifice for Windsor's, Oaksh!tts, Bandt's or Wilkie's view of the world or their local problems and yet these people all had their thumbs in the pies making decisions for us and wheeling and dealing with Labor... No wonder a majority of the public feel that we've been taken along for a ride we didn't choose even without the leadership farce over laying everything...

I think the majority opinion for the future would be that whether it be Libs or Labor, we want a majority government that will put their program in place without lots of hand stroking and compromising with one trick ponies and fringe parties which can't attract a decent level of support in their own right, and hopefully we won't flirt (or accidently shoot ourselves in the foot) with a minority lash up for at least the next 60 years...

 

[casanovawa]

Many European countries get by with lots of small parties just fine.

In fact, I'd argue it's a _vastly_ superior situation to the two-party systems that seem endemic to the Anglo world.

Everytime i see the Italian government in action i curse that we don't have something similar here as we to could be a similar basket case if the Australian people would just wise up...

Doesn't a whole bunch of small parties in Government take on the characteristics of a committee?? And while in some respects committee can be useful for slow, ponderous consideration of issues before producing a response which tries to satisfy everyone, in most respects of leadership i don't think committees are thought of that highly... They are usually better for putting a break on things than driving boldness and innovation???

 

[drsmithy]

It demonstrates again what a sub optimal arrangement minority government is where the amount of compromises that has to be done leaves most people unsatisfied and with a bad taste in their mouths... After all a certain amount of the legislation has been dominated by the Greens, a bunch of wacko's that the majority of the people did not vote for and wanted no where near the lever of powers...

The Greens are now the soft-left political party in Australia since Labor has left that part of the political spectrum behind. They and their policies are completely mainstream, and arguably they align with a rather large chunk of the Australian population, even though the party comes with so much baggage that people call them "wackos". The only individual at a federal level close to a political statesman in the last decade has come out of the Greens (Bob Brown).

Anyone who was voting Labor before the turn of the century should be comfortable voting Green today.

Further, if anything the Greens are under-represented in parliament. They attract ca. 10% of the vote but only have 1 out of 150 seats in the house of reps.

I think the majority opinion for the future would be that whether it be Libs or Labor, we want a majority government that will put their program in place without lots of hand stroking and compromising with one trick ponies and fringe parties which can't attract a decent level of support in their own right, and hopefully we won't flirt (or accidently shoot ourselves in the foot) with a minority lash up for at least the next 60 years...

The main reason those one-trick ponies can carry so much weight is because of a two-party system that leaves the balance of power in the hands of one of two people, rather than half a dozen.

We would be far, far better off with a lot of small parties. Heck, as far as I'm concerned one of the best things we could do is ban political parties completely, so MPs had to represent the views of their constituents, rather than just go along with whatever their party said.