Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

[medhead]

Well Medhead we are square.You obviously don't understand what I write and I don't understand what you write.

Not really drron you seem to like to make an assumption about what I write, add in a whole heap of words and then verbal me.
Whereas I read what you write and think it's a load of cough. Your gripe about $14bil seems to totally ignore the massive inflation that Hawke and Keating had to deal with in their time. That's your choice to view that inflation as nothing. I think it is more realistic to realise that what was purchased with $14 billion now costs $54 billion is a big deal. I understand what you write, I just don't agree. You however, seem to like to make up things about what I wrote. At no stage did I say Abbott would reintroduce workchoices, other than in your imagination.

Ah, I think your crystal ball may have a bit of hyper bowl there. You might want to adjust the settings.

Back to surplus by cutting spending seems pretty clear. hyper bowl or coalition policy?

http://www.liberal.org.au/latest-ne...ess-release-joe-hockey-2013-14-federal-budget

 

[drron]

Not really drronyou seem to like to make an assumption about what I write, add in a whole heap of words and then verbal me.
Whereas I read what you write and think it's a load of cough. You gripe about $14bil seems to totally ignore the massive inflation that Hawke and Keating had to deal with in their time. That's your choice to view that inflation as nothing. I think it is more realistic to realise that what was purchased with $14 billion now costs $54 billion is a big deal. I understand what you write, I just don't agree. You however, seem to like to make up things about what I wrote. At no stage did I say Abbott would reintroduce workchoices, other than in your imagination.

And the 70s was the period of stagflation-also difficult for a Treasurer to deal with.
You write just as much cough as I do.
Those poor Labor Treasurers.Never had a good year to deal with.

 

[JohnK]

Methinks you should try for an independent and unbiased place to get updates.

Nah! This is much more fun. At least I understand a little of what is happening.

Yes.

An atheist is much less likely to force their irrational beliefs on others.

That is a totally irrational stereotype.

At least you can't blame the state of the world or where we are heading on religion. Greed is doing a good job there on it's own.

 

[Hvr]

<snip>
Those poor Labor Treasurers.Never had a good year to deal with.

Well they have to clean up the mess left behind by Liberal treasurers. :mrgreen:

 

[medhead]

And the 70s was the period of stagflation-also difficult for a Treasurer to deal with.
You write just as much cough as I do.
Those poor Labor Treasurers.Never had a good year to deal with.

Once again missing the point completely. The poor coalition treasurer in the 70s increased spending and ran deficits exactly the same the the ALP treasurers did in similar circumstances. It is ludicrous to suggest that only the ALP runs a deficits. It is pretty poor to suggest that the answer is to just cut spending but then attack everything that the current government does to reduce spending. Tony Abbott joint press release with Joe Hockey - The 2013-14 Federal Budget - Liberal Party of Australia

It is also pretty instructive to see what Keating as treasurer did in the good years to reduce debt as a % of GDP, which probably deals with your comment about never having a good year.

 

[drron]

Well they have to clean up the mess left behind by Liberal treasurers. :mrgreen:

nah.Liberal Treasurers cant hold a candle to the mess made by Labor treasurers.

 

[drsmithy]

That is a totally irrational stereotype.

Hardly. Abbot has already let his religion get in the way with his attacks on RU486 as Health Minister.

Then of course there's the contemporary poster child of religious interference: marriage equality.

Another prominent example in the US is the constant push to teach Creationism in science classes. Fortunately this hasn't gotten much traction in Australia yet (though with practically wall to wall conservatives running the country, plus our traditional 5-10 year lag of American trends, that's probably not going to last).

At least you can't blame the state of the world or where we are heading on religion. Greed is doing a good job there.

The worldwide right-wing Governments of the last few decades that have put the world in its current dilemma have relied _hugely_ on the conservative religious vote to reach and maintain power. Blame ? No. Attribute a great deal of responsibility to ? Absolutely.

 

[medhead]

nah.Liberal Treasurers cant hold a candle to the mess made by Labor treasurers.

22 years of continuous growth = massive mess. I totally agree with you.

Another prominent example in the US is the constant push to teach Creationism in science classes. Fortunately this hasn't gotten much traction in Australia yet (though with practically wall to wall conservatives running the country, plus our traditional 5-10 year lag of American trends, that's probably not going to last).

Already happening. I almost threw a fit when my daughter told me about dinosaurs being around at the same time as people and the world being 6000 years old. The poor thing was a bit shocked by my reaction (something like "that's a totally load of absolute BS" using much shorter words ), but at least she stuck to her guns and argued back. That was 3 or 4 years ago. She's got much better, now asking me to explain carbon dating and such, accepting the findings of carbon dating.

 

[drsmithy]

nah.Liberal Treasurers cant hold a candle to the mess made by Labor treasurers.

Just about every significant social and economic reform in Australian history has come out of the ALP.

Liberal Governments rarely do anything more than hold the tiller steady. Well, except when they take some time out to help those who don't need it and demonise those who do.

 

[drsmithy]

Already happening. I almost threw a fit when my daughter told me about dinosaurs being around at the same time as people and the world being 6000 years old. The poor thing was a bit shocked by my reaction (something like "that's a totally load of absolute BS" using much shorter words ), but at least she stuck to her guns and argued back. That was 3 or 4 years ago. She's got much better now asking me to explain carbon dating and such, accepting the findings of carbon dating.

Private school or public ?

 

[medhead]

Anyway, I'm going to leave you lot (most of you anyway) to your pointless obsession with an irrelevant government.

Private school or public ?

Private, so not unexpected and allowed to add to the state mandated curriculum. But still disappointing and probably pretty widespread within certain types of private schools.

 

[ComeFlyWithMe]

Let's say for a moment that this is a democracy.

So we have 4 rusted-on Labor supporters vs how many Liberal supporters?

I love democracy

This thread is very entertaining, with great and valid points from both sides, mixed with substantial amounts of hyperbole and the trotting out the old party lines. Plenty of misinformation too, just like real politicians!

This thread heartens me that some of us actually do care about the running of our country, unlike the remaining 90% who take a more apathetic approach.

 

[casanovawa]

Just about every significant social and economic reform in Australian history has come out of the ALP.

Liberal Governments rarely do anything more than hold the tiller steady. Well, except when they take some time out to help those who don't need it and demonise those who do.

Labor was only in power for 16 of the last 50 years of the 20th century and the country seemed to do ok, each group can often make changes the other is incapable of because of its constituencies... That is the beauty of democracy, you switch sides when the current government has run out of steam or ideas... But to down play the role of the Libs as mere till holders is a bit rich... Maybe the general public doesn't like things being in a constant state of flux???

 

[Moody]

Anyone see Tony Windsor on Lateline on Monday night? Worth a look .... Lateline - 17/06/2013: Labors last days?

For a laugh you can also watch a yapping poodle and a bloodhound on the 7.30 report a few weeks back ....

ABC iview

Still looking for Coalition policies ... if anyone spots one then please let us know.

 

[casanovawa]

I did catch some of it, not sure how much i missed, but think i saw quite a bit of it... What about it?

 

[Must...Fly!]

Yes.

An atheist is much less likely to force their irrational beliefs on others.

Really

Because this is completely contrary to experiences in my 22 years on this earth...

 

[cove]

Since I started voting the worst Prime Ministers we have had in date order were Whilam, Fraser, Rudd and Gillard.
i am grateful that an election allows us to dump them when it is out turn to vote.
We really should have 4 year terms but when you have mistakes being made you appreciate the get rid of them opportunity.

 

[casanovawa]

Just ask Stalin and Mao, paragons of virtue in terms of free speech and thought...

 

[Deleted member]

Since I started voting the worst Prime Ministers we have had in date order were Whilam, Fraser, Rudd and Gillard.
i am grateful that an election allows us to dump them when it is out turn to vote.
We really should have 4 year terms but when you have mistakes being made you appreciate the get rid of them opportunity.

I like 4 year terms. Even 5 or 6 year terms. But I would like to see them split. Half of the seats ( a bit like the senate) automatically come up for reelection on a date that is set when the general election was held. So with a 6 year term every 3 years half would be looking for reelection. If a government truly believes that they have a mandate. Then this would prove it. Yes I know it's simplistic. Yes I know it's possible that the seats that come up for reelection could conceivably be all from one side. And not necessarily from the government. But I suspect that if the distribution were geographically arranged then it might work. So long as the pollies don't have their fingers in the pie. Either that or the two houses must have differing election times. If the senate were up for reelection in say mid to late 2012 I suspect we would have a government more responsive to the electorate.
But that is not what governments want.
Right now the leadership of the ALP is not about What is good for us as citizens But about ego and power I for one would like to see the people have a mechanism that would allow them to ( peacefully) rise up and depose a dysfunctional government.

 

[Skyring]

Already happening. I almost threw a fit when my daughter told me about dinosaurs being around at the same time as people and the world being 6000 years old. The poor thing was a bit shocked by my reaction (something like "that's a totally load of absolute BS" using much shorter words ), but at least she stuck to her guns and argued back. That was 3 or 4 years ago.

Rudd in Canberra with a State Labor government. You can't blame the Libs for that one!

Chalk up a point of agreement. Creation science is bunk.

Fundamentalist religious views - where the holy book over-rides logic, reason and the scientific method - are responsible for a lot of misery in this world. Every time you spread your legs for the TSA, blame a fundamentalist.