Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

[serfty]

...

Why are the Liberal party afraid of scrutiny? ...

Interesting question. Are they?

 

[casanovawa]

Why interrupt your opponents while they are tearing themselves apart???

I notice on QandA last night they couldn't find a poor sap from Labor willing to put their hand up to front the show next week... Why are they afraid to front up and answer some hard questions??

Might we find that Tony Abbott is a fundamentalist religious zealot with no real policies?

You guys really aught to get a grip on this panic of a bit of religion that almost makes you soil yourselves...

The days of establishing inquisitions and taking the country back to year zero are a bit behind us... I'm not a catholic so not defending his religious preference, but just like the atheism of Julia this stuff shouldn't have people frothing at the mouth at individual's personal beliefs seeing we are a pretty mature, sophistocated society with many of the freedoms and openess enshrined in law and legislation and run by a parliamentary process rather than a absolute dictatorship...

I know its hyperbole because you have nothing else really to come out with because the present situation is just so bad and indefensible.... But it might be worth keeping a grip of reality that life after Sept 14th won't be that different...

 

[drsmithy]

Well, that may be how you see it, but frankly the Coalition is far less interesting that the Government circus.

It's like watching a trailer for an upcoming documentary, when you can watch an actual 3D drama-adventure-comedy instead.

Don't worry, there'll be plenty of excitement once Abbot and Hockey realise the coincidence of circumstances that favoured Howard was just luck. They'll be at the mercy of the monster he created soon enough.

I can't think of anyone more deserving to inherit the upcoming economic catastrophe more than the current Liberal party. Reaping what you have sown, and all that.

 

[casanovawa]

Yes, i would much prefer to have what was handed to Kruddy and Labor than the sh!te they usually hand back to the Libs...

 

[drsmithy]

The days of establishing inquisitions and taking the country back to year zero are a bit behind us... I'm not a catholic so not defending his religious preference, but just like the atheism of Julia this stuff shouldn't have people frothing at the mouth at individual's personal beliefs seeing we are a pretty mature, sophistocated society with many of the freedoms and openess enshrined in law and legislation and run by a parliamentary process rather than a absolute dictatorship...

People are rightfully concerned because Abbot already has a history of letting his religious beliefs get in the way when he attacked the morning after pill.

I know its hyperbole because you have nothing else really to come out with because the present situation is just so bad and indefensible.... But it might be worth keeping a grip of reality that life after Sept 14th won't be that different...

By the time 2015 rolls around, however, it might be.

 

[drsmithy]

Yes, i would much prefer to have what was handed to Kruddy and Labor than the sh!te they usually hand back to the Libs...

You mean a huge amounts of public property sold off , a structural deficit, a real estate bubble and entrenched middle class welfare ?

Not that I'm going to defend Labor - but that's mainly because for the last 10 years or so Labor has been little more than Liberals Lite, with nearly nothing to distinguish the two.

 

[medhead]

Why interrupt your opponents while they are tearing themselves apart???

What? Besides the electorates right know know what they're voting for?

You guys really aught to get a grip on this panic of a bit of religion that almost makes you soil yourselves...

The days of establishing inquisitions and taking the country back to year zero are a bit behind us... I'm not a catholic so not defending his religious preference, but just like the atheism of Julia this stuff shouldn't have people frothing at the mouth at individual's personal beliefs seeing we are a pretty mature, sophistocated society with many of the freedoms and openess enshrined in law and legislation and run by a parliamentary process rather than a absolute dictatorship...

I know its hyperbole because you have nothing else really to come out with because the present situation is just so bad and indefensible.... But it might be worth keeping a grip of reality that life after Sept 14th won't be that different...

Only one who needs to get a grip are those who deny Abbott's history. He is about to be handed control of both houses in Canberra. You only have to look at work choices to see what unfetted control might mean for someone driven by ideology. As mentioned it wouldn't take long to get a dictatorship given ultimate control with no balances.

 

[casanovawa]

What? Besides the electorates right know know what they're voting for?.

I'm sure the Libs are reasonably happy to talk about it, but the media and the public are entranced by what labor is doing to itself and the country... I doubt the Libs could even get clear air to announce what they are planning, you can see how easy it is for julia to get her message out and she has the full resources of being in Government and she can barely make herself heard with kruddy going hell for leather... Still several months to go which is more typical of the usual election campaign rather than this 9 month marathon that has everyone getting heartily sick of electioneering and posturing...

Only one who needs to get a grip are those who deny Abbott's history. He is about to be handed control of both houses in Canberra. You only have to look at work choices to see what unfetted control might mean for someone driven by ideology. As mentioned it wouldn't take long to get a dictatorship given ultimate control with no balances.

They introduced work choices and didn't take long before it was amended because of the backlash... I think it is also a recent enough experience, and how it ended up sinking the Libs, that I would be surprised if anyone would want to repeat it anytime soon... I think after 3 consecutive Governments being almost sunk because of lousy political choices ('07,'10 and '13) (well two were and one almost after they had started with a big lead) that the next Government where possible might want to steer a fairly conservative course... The issues of the economy, boats and federal budget are unfortuantely going to require some difficult choices and decisions without trying to manufacture new ones...

 

[casanovawa]

You mean a huge amounts of public property sold off , a structural deficit, a real estate bubble and entrenched middle class welfare ?

Not that I'm going to defend Labor - but that's mainly because for the last 10 years or so Labor has been little more than Liberals Lite, with nearly nothing to distinguish the two.

A certain amount of Government businesses had to be sold off to repay the Keating Labor Governments $96 billion of debt or so that they left and how many entrenched entitlements did the Howard Lib government have to cut back on when they took over in '96 to try and balance the budget, but the privatisation actualy started under Keating didn't it when he sold of the Commonwealth Bank and Qantas was it??? So it wasn't just the Libs that were privatising Government entities...

I mean Labor still had the mining boom that was booming back then and through most of their period og Government with very good terms of trade, little to no net government debt, budget solidly in surplus which gave them plenty of options to handle the GFC... I'm suure we all have different opinions as to how well they managed to do that...

 

[Skyring]

Only one who needs to get a grip are those who deny Abbott's history. He is about to be handed control of both houses in Canberra. You only have to look at work choices to see what unfetted control might mean for someone driven by ideology. As mentioned it wouldn't take long to get a dictatorship given ultimate control with no balances.

When I book a trip, I research it and then I book it and I store the confirmation printouts in a folder and then, well I don't forget about it, but I don't obsess over it.

If we live in the future, or in the past, we are not living in and enjoying the present moment. We are really just living inside our head, chewing over the same self-inflicted pains and pleasures. We have no control over the past - what's done is done. Nor do we have any control over the future. We might think we do, but along comes a volcano or sickness or something to rub our noses in the fact.

Make your preparations for the future, remember the past, but if you go back - or forward - to your fears and hurts and pains and imaginings you are missing out on life.

One day, you'll find you have no more left, and wouldn't it be a sad thing to think back, "ah, bugger, I missed it!"

 

[drron]

Now Medhead you really have followed the party line here.here is a quote in the SMH just before Mr Rudd was decapitated-

And Labor and the ACTU were so worried that they were prepared to distort the truth to damage Abbott. As they know full well, Tony Abbott was not in favour of WorkChoices.
He was one of two members of the Howard cabinet to consistently oppose the policy. Together with Howard's minister for workplace relations, Kevin Andrews, Abbott argued against the policy for three reasons. First, that it exceeded the government's mandate; second, that it was unjustifiably harsh on workers; and third, that it was politically dangerous to the government. They were right on all counts.
As Abbott said in an interview for my book, To the Bitter End: "We did have strong reservations, yeah, but the strong view of the cabinet and the PM and the treasurer was that this had to be done."
Abbott wanted Howard to retain the no-disadvantage test, which meant that no worker could be left worse off under industrial law.

Read more: Abbott Closes In On Rudd

John Howard said the same in his book.

 

[Skyring]

He is about to be handed control of both houses in Canberra.

And whose work is this? He wouldn't be in such a position if it hadn't been for Rudd and Gillard demonstrating exactly how NOT to run a government.

Why are you obsessing over what may or may not be a bad government when you have a perfect example of a bad government right here, right now?

I mean, seriously? If you want to talk bad government, well, here it is, on the front page every day.

One might gain the impression, from some of the things said around here, that objectivity is not the name of the game. Cheering on a doomed team is more the go. Honestly, it's like Ansett in the final days, with the Golden Wing folk telling us that Ansett wasn't as bad as the alternative.

 

[eastwest101]

What? Besides the electorates right know know what they're voting for?

Did they know what they were voting for in 2007? You know - the guy whom was elected "Howard lite", economically responsible, removing workchoices laws, fibre to the node broadband, education and tax rebates, action on climate change post kyoto 2012 only if other major emitters signed up, no more government advertising (aka the cancer on democracy"), 260 childcare centres on school grounds, grocery watch and fuel watch, Super GP clinics, taking Japan to court over whaling, leaving private health insurance rebates alone...

It seems regardless of political colours - you can take between 25-50% of the promises made in an election campaign and throw them out the window the day after the polls close.....

 

[medhead]

They introduced work choices and didn't take long before it was amended because of the backlash... I think it is also a recent enough experience, and how it ended up sinking the Libs, ..

The coalition doesn't want to talk at all. Why would they while the circus is going on? It suits them to remain silent and they have.

As for remembering the recent past, I need only mention all the public demanding a return of Rudd who seem to have forgotten the recent past - 3 years ago when he stank to high heaven.

What was your other point? oh yes paying off debt. If you look closely you'll see that Howard was really mostly paying off the debt of the Fraser government.

drron I'm not sure of your point. Did I say Abbott was going to bring back work choices? No. It was an example of the kinds of ideology cough that happens when unfetted power is given to government. We all know Abbott has his ideology hobby horses. How about a failed dental scheme?

 

[drsmithy]

I mean Labor still had the mining boom that was booming back then and through most of their period og Government with very good terms of trade, little to no net government debt, budget solidly in surplus which gave them plenty of options to handle the GFC... I'm suure we all have different opinions as to how well they managed to do that...

The budget Howard left behind was in structural deficit, thanks to the tax cuts and and increased middle-class welfare he paid for out of asset sales and the first part of the mining boom.

Make your preparations for the future, remember the past, but if you go back - or forward - to your fears and hurts and pains and imaginings you are missing out on life.

So I'm confused. We should remember the past and learn from it, or we should ignore it because what's done is done ?

Cheering on a doomed team is more the go. Honestly, it's like Ansett in the final days, with the Golden Wing folk telling us that Ansett wasn't as bad as the alternative.

Cheering on a team and saying they're the least worst option are two _very_ different things.

I might prefer to be shot rather than burned to death. Doesn't meant I want to be shot.

 

[medhead]

And whose work is this? He wouldn't be in such a position if it hadn't been for Rudd and Gillard demonstrating exactly how NOT to run a government.

Why are you obsessing over what may or may not be a bad government when you have a perfect example of a bad government right here, right now?

I mean, seriously? If you want to talk bad government, well, here it is, on the front page every day.

One might gain the impression, from some of the things said around here, that objectivity is not the name of the game. Cheering on a doomed team is more the go. Honestly, it's like Ansett in the final days, with the Golden Wing folk telling us that Ansett wasn't as bad as the alternative.

Excuse me. The only people obsessing over the current government around here are you and your mates. As I've said numerous times - they are irrelevant to me. I'm interested in the next government. That's the important information for me, are we jumping from the flying pan into the fire.

Did they know what they were voting for in 2007? You know - the guy whom was elected "Howard lite", economically responsible, removing workchoices laws, fibre to the node broadband, education and tax rebates, action on climate change post kyoto 2012 only if other major emitters signed up, no more government advertising (aka the cancer on democracy"), 260 childcare centres on school grounds, grocery watch and fuel watch, Super GP clinics, taking Japan to court over whaling, leaving private health insurance rebates alone...

It seems regardless of political colours - you can take between 25-50% of the promises made in an election campaign and throw them out the window the day after the polls close.....

Is the fact that Rudd sailed through that election into the top job a reason to give Abbott the same free ride? Or should we try to correct that mistake?

As for the comment about 25-50% of promises you just need to add - "unless you're Gillard in which case you will be held to every single last word you uttered by people who didn't vote for you anyway, and never would have voted for you regardless of what you said."

 

[casanovawa]

The coalition doesn't want to talk at all. Why would they while the circus is going on? It suits them to remain silent and they have.

As for remembering the recent past, I need only mention all the public demanding a return of Rudd who seem to have forgotten the recent past - 3 years ago when he stank to high heaven.

What was your other point? oh yes paying off debt. If you look closely you'll see that Howard was really mostly paying off the debt of the Fraser government.

1. Yes an election is undeniably a contest, why would you give up an advantage if you don't have to, Rudd or Gillard wouldn't it... The last opposition who really came clean was a Lib one and we all know how that ended...

2. After Gillard almost anyone in the past would look good, they'd probably re-elect Howard given half a chance after all this wonderful 'change' the people thought they desired and needed... The difference is is that the pollies continue to get paid if they make the savvy decisions and not the dumb ones, its slightly more of an incentive to learn the lessons of the past than just a fickle popularity contest that the public take part in via polls...

3. Hawke/Keating were in power for 13 years and the Libs came in to pay off Fraser's debt??? Ok... ...... Well even if this was somehow true at least someone paid it off once and for all!!!

 

[Skyring]

So I'm confused. We should remember the past and learn from it, or we should ignore it because what's done is done ?

Don't forget, don't ignore. But don't live in it.

How often do we see people nursing some old hurt, holding a grudge, reliving their youth? Spend your time dreaming of that sweet blonde in high school, or the idiot boss who fired you, or the moron who cut you off in traffic, or the taste of yesterday's dinner, you might as well just stick a sign on your forehead: Nobody Home!

 

[Skyring]

As for the comment about 25-50% of promises you just need to add - "unless you're Gillard in which case you will be held to every single last word you uttered by people who didn't vote for you anyway, and never would have voted for you regardless of what you said.

Fair's fair - the internet is full of people doing the same to Abbott. Two sides of the one bloody-minded coin. And we may find people being bloody minded everywhere.

 

[cove]

I hope the new Government starts working on getting everyone united to start solving Australia's issues.
There has been enough stupid to last a lifetime and the starting point will be just a little bit of a slippery pole.