Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

[Pushka]

Well here's my rant given all the Greens comments. Check the picture captions to do with the mid year ball associated with this story Gillard's fall is far bigger than Labor's Every is Pollie and partner/wife/daughter except Penny Wong and her partner who are both named. Why TF can't Penny Wong have the relationship with her partner acknowledged? Only time I'll ever agree with the Greens. But don't tell them that because they still oppose nuclear power.

And prolly the only time I will ever agree with you!

Looks like SA might lead the way with recognition of same sex marriages. We can hope.

 

[JohnK]

What irrational atheist [lack of] beliefs have been forced upon you ?

Constantly drummed into people is be yourself, do what you want and damn the consequences.

Not a good way to bring up a child....

 

[drsmithy]

Constantly drummed into people is be yourself, do what you want and damn the consequences.

And this is related to atheism how, exactly ?

Not a good way to bring up a child....

So don't.

 

[JohnK]

And this is related to atheism how, exactly ?

It is a by-product in moving away from religious beliefs.

So don't.

Don't worry. My religious and spiritual beliefs will never be passed down to someone as I have never had children.

And the world is a better place for it.

 

[Must...Fly!]

I missed your response drsmithy. I am constantly told I believe in a flying spaghetti monster. It offends me but I do not get all up in arms about it, nor do I try and force my beliefs upon others.

I am not weak willed and will not change my beliefs based on what someone else tells me I should or should not believe in. I will make changes in my belief/faith structure as I see fit.

Constantly drummed into people is be yourself, do what you want and damn the consequences.

I broadly agree with JohnK here, that is my personal opinion.

 

[Pushka]

It is a by-product in moving away from religious beliefs.


Don't worry. My religious and spiritual beliefs will never be passed down to someone as I have never had children.

And the world is a better place for it.

No. It is a by product of parents thinking their children can do no wrong and demonstrating lack of accountability.

 

[drsmithy]

It is a by-product in moving away from religious beliefs.

The implication here is that people lacking religious beliefs cannot act responsibly.

 

[drsmithy]

I am not weak willed and will not change my beliefs based on what someone else tells me I should or should not believe in. I will make changes in my belief/faith structure as I see fit.

That's great for inconsequential proselytising, but when laws are changed (or created) based on particular religious beliefs, how do you propose those impacted by said laws avoid those religious beliefs being forced on them ?

 

[Pushka]

Harradine was the worst politician for forcing his Catholic beliefs on the electorate.

 

[Must...Fly!]

That's great for inconsequential proselytising, but when laws are changed (or created) based on particular religious beliefs, how do you propose those impacted by said laws avoid those religious beliefs being forced on them ?

I believe in a secular government.

I also believe that if (when?) Abbott becomes Prime Minister, he will not bring tones of religious rhetoric with him that will effect the laws or policies of this country.

 

[drsmithy]

I believe in a secular government.

I also believe that if (when?) Abbott becomes Prime Minister, he will not bring tones of religious rhetoric with him that will effect the laws or policies of this country.

Well, his history as health minister suggests otherwise.

On the other hand, Abbot is nothing if not an opportunistic populist, so he'll just go whichever way he thinks the wind is blowing.

But there's the impacts religious beliefs have already had. Marriage equality, for example.

 

[Pukka]

Don't worry. My religious and spiritual beliefs will never be passed down to someone as I have never had children.

That's a shame as you've missed out on telling them about Santa and the tooth fairy they're nice stories too.

Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man -- living in the sky -- who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do.. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time! ..But He loves you.

Yes it's cough sorry.

 

[Pushka]

Many people were concerned about the RU486 after sex drug and not because of religion. Concerns were expressed it was going to be used as contraception and its just too powerful a drug to do that. Abbott said he would accept medical expert advice before deciding his position. I would have thought that stand to be perfectly appropriate.

Why do posters ignore the fact that atheist Gillard is also opposed to same sex marriage. Convenient memory lapse indeed.

 

[Must...Fly!]

I missed your response drsmithy. I am constantly told I believe in a flying spaghetti monster. It offends me but I do not get all up in arms about it, nor do I try and force my beliefs upon others.

That's a shame as you've missed out on telling them about Santa and the tooth fairy they're nice stories too.

Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man -- living in the sky -- who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do.. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time! ..But He loves you.

Yes it's cough sorry.

Thanks for proving that point...

 

[Pukka]

Thanks for proving that point...

That's ok

As people become more intelligent they care less for preachers and more for teachers

 

[drsmithy]

Many people were concerned about the RU486 after sex drug and not because of religion. Concerns were expressed it was going to be used as contraception and its just too powerful a drug to do that. Abbott said he would accept medical expert advice before deciding his position. I would have thought that stand to be perfectly appropriate.

Which might vaguely resemble a valid argument had it not already been in use for over a decade in other countries. There was nothing controversial about RU486 except to the usual lineup of religious wowsers and their outrage about women not being slaves to their reproductive systems.

Why do posters ignore the fact that atheist Gillard is also opposed to same sex marriage. Convenient memory lapse indeed.

Because it's largely irrelevant. Howard was the one who actively legislated away marriage equality.

We also remember that whatever Gillard's real opinions on gay marriage might be, she at least put it to a conscience vote within the party.

 

[ComeFlyWithMe]

So, word is we *may* have a new PM by the end of next week. Again, it won't be one elected by the people of Australia - not that our system works that way unfortunately.

With any luck, should it happen, hopefully the GG will overlook her personal connection to the Labor party and call an early election to let the people decide.

Long live democracy!

 

[Hvr]

So, word is we *may* have a new PM by the end of next week. Again, it won't be one elected by the people of Australia - not that our system works that way unfortunately.

With any luck, should it happen, hopefully the GG will overlook her personal connection to the Labor party and call an early election to let the people decide.

Long live democracy!

Wow that's a big call, accusing the GG of not being impartial. So far she has proven to be one of the better GGs this country has had for many years.

The Fairfax papers had an article recently listing the various options that may be considered if there is a change in Labor leadership:

A late switch by Labor back to Kevin Rudd could provoke a constitutional crisis forcing Governor-General Quentin Bryce to consider options such as a sudden recall of Parliament to test Labor's majority or even the appointment of Tony Abbott as prime minister.

Another option would be the commencement of an immediate caretaker period before an early election.

Read more: Labor risks majority crisis
​

 

[Must...Fly!]

This isn't me getting up in arms contrary to my post on the prior page, rather ensuring I am not misrepresented (to use a parliamentary term )

That's ok

As people become more intelligent they care less for preachers and more for teachers

My family believes strongly in education and there is at least one thesis in a prominent Australian university that attests to this. Likewise I am soon to add my name to the alumnus register of said university.

Which might vaguely resemble a valid argument had it not already been in use for over a decade in other countries. There was nothing controversial about RU486 except to the usual lineup of religious wowsers and their outrage about women not being slaves to their reproductive systems.

I am sure you are not referring to the vast majority of people who have a belief based around Christianity. But again, to be clear on my own position, I expect no woman to be a "slave" (as you put it) to their reproductive system.

To highlight the differences between some churches, I spent the early part of my schooling in a catholic school. I am not catholic, and the heavy focus on Catholicism was not appreciated (but tolerated, because I was in a Catholic school after all). I moved schools at age 10, to an Anglican school (I am not Anglican either). Here, there was a focus on spirituality, not particular traditions of the church with which the school was associated. I greatly enjoyed those classes while they lasted in primary school (they ceased early in to high school) and reflecting, I feel the experience was a good and valuable one. The priest at that school I regard as one of the kindest, most tolerating people I've met.

 

[drsmithy]

So, word is we *may* have a new PM by the end of next week. Again, it won't be one elected by the people of Australia - not that our system works that way unfortunately.

Why "unfortunately" ? What difference does it make who the PM is ?

With any luck, should it happen, hopefully the GG will overlook her personal connection to the Labor party and call an early election to let the people decide.

Long live democracy!

The GG would have zero basis to do anything.

The people already decided. They elected their representatives, and those representatives chose a Prime Minister, precisely as they are supposed to do. That's how the system here works. Don't try and conflate your dislike of the system with the utterly false implication that it has somehow been circumvented, broken, or been any less "democratic" than in the past.

If you want to hero-worship a president, move to a country that has one.