Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

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All the money from overspend has to come from borrowing. In my household, we do not borrow to consume.
A Government is not a household (or a business). It isn't run like one, it isn't funded like one and it shouldn't be budgeted like one.

NDIS, Gonski, BER, Pink Batts, cash handout, Flooding in of Welfare dependent boat people... those are pure expenditures in my opinion.

How about the armed forces, police and legal system ?
Schools ? Hospitals and healthcare ?
Churches and other tax-exempt organisations ?
Tax rorts like negative gearing ?

Snowy Mountain Project, Great Ocean Road and Yarra Bend Drive [...]

Were cost/benefit analyses done for them ?

 
I will not spend the money I don't already earn. Plus, I do not commit to future expenditure without knowing fully what my actual earning will be. .

Wow thats impressive !!! So when you took out a 30 year mortgage to buy your house you knew with absolute certainty what your earnings were going to be over that entire term !!!! That crystal ball is worth its weight in gold - maybe you could lend it to the Govt so that they can see future income with certainty before they invest in similar long term assets like .. say.. the NBN.
 
Companies and Governments borrow to build and grow.
 
He'll do it as a sop to his conservative Christian voting block.

Nothing so major as trying to ban abortion, of course, just some fiddling around the edges to make it less accessible to those undesirables like the unmarried or poor.


It's not just his religious views, it's the religious views of the conservative christian voting block he depends on.


Well, who knew we had such a large 'conservative christian voting block' here in Oz, its so obvious now when i think of all the born again preachy types that keep getting voted in as PM... You sure you're not bringing up some bogey man to hang your own neurosis off of???

Of course i guess you've got to be a card carrying, bicycle riding, bible pounder to have some concerns about abortion or things of that ilk, you know no one other than those dangerous christian types could ever harbour such backward thoughts of a return to slavery...

Then again if there is this large, not-overly-obvious 'conservative christain block' out there, and TA responded to some of its concerns that would be different to JG's playing up to her string pulling union mates who parachuted her in there and her playing up to the female voters (till of course it came time to jettison the stay at homes mums on welfare by a Labor/female PM no less)...

I guess she has some special dispensation to screw parts of the electorate over and be as divisive a PM as i can remember with all her labelling and trite slogans but TA has to be purer than driven snow does he???
 
Wow thats impressive !!! So when you took out a 30 year mortgage to buy your house you knew with absolute certainty what your earnings were going to be over that entire term !!!! That crystal ball is worth its weight in gold - maybe you could lend it to the Govt so that they can see future income with certainty before they invest in similar long term assets like .. say.. the NBN.

I think anything to help Swanny see past next week and put his dart board away would be an improvement... :)
 
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The implication here is that people lacking religious beliefs cannot act responsibly.
No. Society without religious beliefs and morals has no hope.

Just take a good look around you. What I see is not pretty at all and I would hate to be growing up sometime in the near future.
 
No. Society without religious beliefs and morals has no hope.

Just take a good look around you. What I see is not pretty at all and I would hate to be growing up in the sometime in the near future.

And religious beliefs have been involved in many wars. The crusades were a classic battle of Christians versus "The Infidels".
 
And religious beliefs have been involved in many wars. The crusades were a classic battle of Christians versus "The Infidels".
The Crusades were something different and I would not call them Christian.

Not every religious person is a radical or fundamentalist.
 
The Crusades were something different but I would not go call them Christian.

Not every religious person is a radical or fundamentalist.

The Crusades were all about removing Muslims from Europe and removing their control over Jerusalem. And it wasn't the radicals who started it, even The Pope and King of England were involved in the plotting.
 
A Government is not a household (or a business). It isn't run like one, it isn't funded like one and it shouldn't be budgeted like one.

Accounting principle is the same across all sectors "A = L + P". However, for government it is important to provide social, economic stability, law and order and basic services to the citizens. The books need to be balanced (surplus at boom time to keep a lid on inflation or limited deficit in recession to keep the wheel turning), whereas households and business should skew towards surplus.


How about the armed forces, police and legal system ?
Schools ? Hospitals and healthcare ?
Churches and other tax-exempt organisations ?
Tax rorts like negative gearing ?

Personally, in my opinion, armed forces, police and legal system, schools, hospital and healthcare are the foundation to achieve social and economic stability plus strong law and order. Those are similar to expenditure to our home security and insurance. Again, such expenditure needs to be balanced, living beyond one's mean would just lead to bankruptcy or long term financial hardship.
Lastly, I would like to see churches and NGOs loosing their tax exempt status. In some countries where there is no social/government welfare/safety net to assist those in need in the society, I actually see the need for NGOs.

As for negative gearing, I love it. It is what got me to the stage to allow me to fly J and F nowadays. The community actually need a balance of property investors to provide rental properties for various market needs. For example Defence Housing, it attracts investors to buy in and get tax benefit, on the other hand provide housing for defense personnel.

As for cost benefit analysis for Snowy Mountain and recession era projects, I would say back in those days the idea would be foreign to the government of the day. However, with today's computer aided economic modelling, it is actually not hard to do and can be done efficiently. In business, it is done all the time for capital investments. Even Melbourne's East-West Link...

Wow thats impressive !!! So when you took out a 30 year mortgage to buy your house you knew with absolute certainty what your earnings were going to be over that entire term !!!! That crystal ball is worth its weight in gold - maybe you could lend it to the Govt so that they can see future income with certainty before they invest in similar long term assets like .. say.. the NBN.

I don't have a crystal ball. But I know basic Maths and how to use Microsoft Excel.

Actually, I am about to commit myself to a 25-year mortgage on an investment property. I do have a clear idea on where I will be in 5-years with that particular asset. I am confident that I can service the loan (my job is not at risk in next 5 years, and I do have a cash safety net plus income insurance) for 5 years. After using conservative expenditure vs rental income, I am very confident that the asset will be self-servicing after 5 years where it will earn me income to secure my future even further.

It is my personal opinion, that accounting principle is the same for across the economy irrespectively of the entity. What is different is where the pendulum (Surplus vs Deficit) should swing, for Government/NGOs, in my opinion it should be close to Balance. For business and household, it should be solidly in Surplus. For businesses, even individuals, acquiring asset is always risky. We should never borrow to Consume, always borrow to Invest. Before investing in an asset, it is vitally important to minimize the risk, cost/benefit analysis should be done nowadays. Even with a spreadsheet, it is not hard to workout personal finance and access one's financial risk. For big organisations, there are teams of people specialised in this. I know it is contradictory to say never borrow to consume, but it is a necessary to use Credit (short term borrow to spend) but it must be managed and accounted for. In a simple personal experience, I use Credit Card to get the 55-Day Interest Free so I can earn 55-Days additional interest on my saving! Business has similar setup (90-Day, 30-Day Credit... etc), I am sure the governments out there does the same with Bonds. I am not a macro-economist, but I am just using my personal experience on what I feel is wrong with current government.

As much as I like to see Labor win the election, I don't have the confidence in them at the moment. I really hoped that Rudd really was a Howard Lite.
 
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That's a shame as you've missed out on telling them about Santa and the tooth fairy they're nice stories too.
No. The Bing Bang Theory and how we all came to exist from an exploding rice bubble in nothingness is a much easier [-]story[/-] fairytale to believe.

Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man -- living in the sky -- who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do.. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time! ..But He loves you.

Yes it's cough sorry.
Humanity is not in a position to confirm or deny the existence of a higher being.

But just goes to show the arrogance and how far humans have evolved to think they know everything

I know a little about religion and spirituality and I think it is a real possibility. It is not fair though as people in my family have had "real" religious experiences that outsiders would simply explains as "coincidence".
 
Who was the fool who brought religion into this political debate??
It is totally relevant as people are saying that just because you are religious you are not fit to be a prime minister of a country yet an atheist makes a perfect prime minister.
 
Who was the fool who brought religion into this political debate??

Actually, I think MPs should pass a law that Christians are not allowed to have abortion and same-sex marriage. While those who are not Christian faith can live their lives with abortion and same-sex marriage, if any other religion object to abortion and marriage, ban their members from having it. Further, I would mandate that Burqa should be applied equally across Muslims, if it is good enough for women, Muslim men should wear it too - Equal Opportunity here.

My family are atheists, so my gay side of the family can marry as they wish. I can't wait for double Bucks' Night :lol: (would they go for the traditional female stripper or male!?)
 
The thread has certainly been an interesting "read" over the past few days.
The almost troll like rabble rousing of some to the really heart felt comments of others, great colour.

I recently asked a hnw American about the money printing.
No proble, he said , as the valuation supports it.
i guess the same argument can be attached to the profligate spending of the socialists..
brings to mind....For whom the bell tolls...
 
No. The Bing Bang Theory and how we all came to exist from an exploding rice bubble in nothingness is a much easier [-]story[/-] fairytale to believe.
Well it does require at least one fewer massive assumption and actually has some evidence to support it.

So... Yeah.
 
No. Society without religious beliefs and morals has no hope.
Just take a good look around you. What I see is not pretty at all and I would hate to be growing up sometime in the near future.

No wonder, Australia is such a hopeless case... we should be more like Middle East then, lots of Religious belief and morals there. And it is a wonder that some people would jump into a leaky boat to come into this country...

Australian Culture and society stemmed from Anglo-Christian origin (oh well, at least loosely speaking, please don't quote the entire history here), as a nation the rule of law and our identity evolved around that basic core system. What makes Australia different is that majority are willing to adopt and change, and we live in relative harmony. Australia is not perfect, and we all have our varying opinions and idealism, but at least we are evolving for better (or worse)...
 
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