Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

[drsmithy]

And if Julia Gillard didn't introduce a carbon tax, then what is Kevin Rudd dumping?

Nothing. He's implementing the plan Labor said they would implement, simply on a shorter timeline.

 

[drsmithy]

I reject your inference. I did not imply this. I said she was a master at the game (of misleading, evasion and personal attack). If you are looking for a list, then Rudd is the next name on it. He is King Weasel.

Yet you seem strangely quiet on all the Liberal politicians engaging in the same behaviour.

 

[drsmithy]

There, in front of students from all over Australia, we have another lesson being taught. The leader of the government being asked the most precise and direct questions, and not only failing to answer them, but turning them into personal attacks.

The other lesson being taught is that if you have most of the country's media on your side and repeat the same dishonesty frequently enough, it becomes truth, (the "Carbon Tax Lie") and if you ceaselessly bang on about topics that are largely irrelevant (boat people, Labor leadership) you can come within the proverbial of running the country without having to tell anyone how you're going to do it.

 

[Skyring]

Misleading, evasion and personal attack. Isn't that what Abbott does daily in his scripted press conferences?

Well, is it? Do we have some direct, sourced, in-context quotes to look at?

 

[straitman]

You seem to be rather strongly implying Julia Gillard is the only leader to have engaged in this practice.

I reject your inference. I did not imply this. I said she was a master at the game (of misleading, evasion and personal attack). If you are looking for a list, then Rudd is the next name on it. He is King Weasel.

drsmithy,

How you could read such an implication into such an open statement is beyond me.

 

[drron]

So SQ421 do you believe all who use the campaign slogan "stop the boats"are racist xenophobes?

 

[medhead]

Yet you seem strangely quiet on all the Liberal politicians engaging in the same behaviour.

Surely not?! I can't believe he would do such a think after writing the following. Maybe one-eyed single minded support is ok if you support the "right" team. Or are at least silent on their failings.

Now, I can accept that, for some people, their preferred party, footy team, or religion transcends honesty and common sense. We see it daily. I don't have to like such one-eyed single-minded behaviour. And I don't.

So SQ421 do you believe all who use the campaign slogan "stop the boats"are racist xenophobes?

He didn't actually say that. But don't let words get in the way.

 

[drron]

And I didn't say he did.I am asking the question.

 

[SQ421]

So SQ421 do you believe all who use the campaign slogan "stop the boats"are racist xenophobes?

No. I believe the slogan is designed to pander to racist xenophobes.

 

[SQ421]

Well, is it? Do we have some direct, sourced, in-context quotes to look at?

Any quote where he accuses PM Gillard of having lied on Carbon Tax is a sufficient example.

 

[straitman]

From where I'm sitting, and as someone who does not normally comment on this thread, I have to say that many comments here are ludicrous. People are getting so tied up in their mindsets that logic has obviously gone off somewhere else.

Questions taken as statements, drawing ideas/implications out where they don't exist is all a bunch of rubbish by people who normally put together quite coherent arguments.

Have a look and a think about what you are saying people as from the outside some of you sound like a lot of school kids fighting over they don't know what :!:

 

[Skyring]

Any quote where he accuses PM Gillard of having lied on Carbon Tax is a sufficient example.

Well, you may be right. I keep an open mind. If you have a direct, sourced in-context quote, please put it up and we'll have a look at it. Let's cut through the opinion and spin and cut back to the source. You can't say fairer than that.

 

[SQ421]

Well, you may be right. I keep an open mind. If you have a direct, sourced in-context quote, please put it up and we'll have a look at it. Let's cut through the opinion and spin and cut back to the source. You can't say fairer than that.

Straight from the horse's mouth. Well, his digital mouth.

Two years ago today, Julia Gillard lied to the Australian people about her plans for a carbon tax.
Julia Gillard’s pre-election promise “there will be no carbon tax under the government I lead” was broken as soon as she made her deal with the Greens and independents.

Labor's Carbon Tax Lie > Tony Abbott

 

[drsmithy]

drsmithy,

How you could read such an implication into such an open statement is beyond me.

Pretty easily by observing the poster pillorying only one or two people (and both from the same team) for behaviour that all engage in to largely the same degree.

 

[drsmithy]

So SQ421 do you believe all who use the campaign slogan "stop the boats"are racist xenophobes?

Given the insignificant impact of non-genuine-refugee boat arrivals in the grand scheme of things, and the worthless generality of the phrase, chances are certainly well above average.

If they're also shouting "stop the planes", then there's a slim chance that they're genuinely advocating lower immigration across the board - but even then there's a better change they're just "racist xenophobes".

 

[medhead]

And I didn't say he did.I am asking the question.

The inference of your question is clear.

 

[medhead]

Anyway, I guess Tony Abbott wants to put me out of a job. He has started this campaign against non-delivery of invisible substances. I guess that means he opposes anyone working to achieve non-devilery of radiation from places like Chernobyl or Fukushima. Or non-delivery of radiation from airport nude-o-scopes. Or even non-delivery of excessive, invisible radiation from medical x-rays.

What about NOX, or Cl or whatever that invisible substance that was delivered around Bhopal about 30 years ago?

Those darn invisible substances, they seem to be everywhere and their seems to be lots of scheme to affect their non-delivery.

 

[serfty]

Abbot stated "It's a so-called market in the non-delivery of an invisible substance to no-one", not "... substances ...", Which I can only presume was inferring CO[SUB]2[/SUB], not anything else.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-07-...s-as-market-in-an-invisible-substance/4820564

 

[SQ421]

Abbot stated "It's a so-called market in the non-delivery of an invisible substance to no-one", not "... substances ...", Which I can only presume was inferring CO[SUB]2[/SUB], not anything else.

Tony Abbott says ETS a 'market in an invisible substance'; Labor denies scrapping carbon price will leave $6bn budget hole - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

So is he dismissing the markets trading in other invisible substances or just singling out this one?

 

[medhead]

Abbot stated "It's a so-called market in the non-delivery of an invisible substance to no-one", not "... substances ...", Which I can only presume was inferring CO[SUB]2[/SUB], not anything else.

Tony Abbott says ETS a 'market in an invisible substance'; Labor denies scrapping carbon price will leave $6bn budget hole - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Cute bit of distraction. A journey of a thousand miles starts with one step. The point remains that there are a whole vast array of invisible substances that have a range of measures in place for their non-delivery. If an attempt, via a market, to non-deliver one invisible substance in unacceptable, what other measures to non-deliver other invisible substances are also unacceptable? The science pretty consistent that CO2 needs to be acted on. The science is equally pretty consistent (yes there are people who think there is no harm just like Tony) that invisible radiation needs to be non-delivered to no one. It must be a valid question to ask Tony if he also opposes the non-delivery of invisible radiation.

Edit: And I;ve just realised that Tony might have got himself with a double negative. Non-delivery to no one - So delivery to someone?