Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

[Skyring]

When the government introduce legislation to "stop the boats" as demanded by the opposition. Then yes I do blame the opposition for not passing the legislation. Abbott clearly blocked the legislation because of the political game he was playing. (I'm surprised you can't see that)

Abbott doesn't have the numbers to block legislation. That's why we have the NBN, the mining tax, the carbon tax - all measures very firmly opposed by Tony Abbott. He can't block legislation. Simple as that.

 

[dfcatch]

Her position was that she walked out of the shop with goods she intended to buy because of a panic attack. So admission of guilt in her defence and she was found guilty (pretty sure she wasn't convicted as she has recently retired not because of conviction be because of her ongoing difficulties). So I'd say it was mitigation for the penalty applied.



As already mentioned. When the government introduce legislation to "stop the boats" as demanded by the opposition. Then yes I do blame the opposition for not passing the legislation. Abbott clearly blocked the legislation because of the political game he was playing. (I'm surprised you can't see that)

So for that one piece of legislation, yes I will blame the opposition. If anyone need to try harder, it is not me.

We can also take it a step further. Abbott claimed that Nauru is the only was to "stop the boats". Yet the boats haven't stopped.

Actually Abbott always stated it was a suite of policies that were needed - including TPVs.

Fact is - the system should never have been dismantled.
The longer the government took to reinstate offshore processing the more credibility the policy lost.
The belated half-hearted measure just demonstrates this government's incompetence.

Regardless of your (or my) personal view on refugees - fact is the pacific solution worked.
The boats stopped coming; we increased our refugee intake through regular channels; people felt confident that the government had the borders under control.

The electorate no longer has confidence in those issues.

I agree with you that the Coalition will have a tougher time to solve the problem - but I believe they will.

Browski - you're correct - TA played politics, but I don't believe the numbers in the next parliament will an issue for him when it comes to this issue.

 

[SQ421]

You have to make a profit to pay tax. Ways and means my friend. As Gillard has just realised with the mining tax. The difference between knowing how to run a business versus running a union.

So you don't make profits but claim to "know" how to run a business? Or are okay to pay 30% tax when you could've been paying 29%?

 

[SQ421]

hang on.. if Tony is going to "stop the boats" then why bother with the administrative overheads of TPVs?

The boats would've been stopped, there would be no "illegal" arrivals into Australia.

 

[dfcatch]

So you don't make profits but claim to "know" how to run a business? Or are okay to pay 30% tax when you could've been paying 29%?

Better to pay 30% tax in an economy that is traveling well with high consumer confidence than 29% when your business is on the verge of bankruptcy.

1% tax change buried in other less innocuous legislation isn't going to make or break anything.

 

[medhead]

Most visitors on tourist visas leave promptly. Long before midnight. They were invited in, they filled out the paperwork, they got on the plane. The overstayers may take jobs, but if so, then they must be jobs that attract no government attention through tax file numbers or medicare deductions or all the rest of the bureaucratic imperialism. Nor are we paying them government benefits, providing healthcare, superannuation or any other assistance. They are no problem.

And we know that they are no problem because the Opposition isn't jumping up and down to make a fuss to embarrass the Government every Question Time.

Sorry but if a visa overstayer is put in the back of an ambulance for whatever reason they are taking healthcare assistance. I'm sure their are hospitals that do treat all people in need at significant cost.

As for jumping up and down in question time. Maybe they don't want people to realise Howard didn't stop the planes. Maybe they don't want people to realise their hypocrisy over "illegals".

Nor was Tony Abbott the only voice raised against Gillard. Bob Brown and the Greens weren't having a bar of it either. The Victorian ALP on 8 October 2011 rejected it as well.

Bob brown? Yeah, ok then, convincing. Not!

Didn't the government go back and revise the Malaysia solution and propose legislation to implement Malaysia MkII as well as Nauru etc.

 

[dfcatch]

I apologize for playing with everyone..... I'm bored in the ORD FL waiting for my 763 to LA to become operational

 

[medhead]

Abbott doesn't have the numbers to block legislation. That's why we have the NBN, the mining tax, the carbon tax - all measures very firmly opposed by Tony Abbott. He can't block legislation. Simple as that.

But he does have the numbers to make sure legislation can pass. Instead he decided to play games and put people at risk.

 

[Pushka]

So you don't make profits but claim to "know" how to run a business? Or are okay to pay 30% tax when you could've been paying 29%?

You don't run a business, do you?

 

[Skyring]

Sorry but if a visa overstayer is put in the back of an ambulance for whatever reason they are taking healthcare assistance. I'm sure their are hospitals that do treat all people in need at significant cost.

As for jumping up and down in question time. Maybe they don't want people to realise Howard didn't stop the planes. Maybe they don't want people to realise their hypocrisy over "illegals".

When a visa overstayer has an accident, is taken to hospital and therefore comes to government notice, they are then deported. The problem solves itself.

Visa overstayers aren't an issue. They don't make the front pages, they don't cause heated parliamentary debates, they barely rate a mention. Except from a few people playing games, attempting to deflect attention from irregular arrivals, deaths in transit and the huge expense of the failed policy.

 

[Skyring]

But he does have the numbers to make sure legislation can pass. Instead he decided to play games and put people at risk.

You said he blocked the legislation. He did not. He doesn't have the numbers. 95% of the time, the Government and Opposition vote together to pass legislation. You want them to vote together 100% of the time? :shock:

 

[SQ421]

Abbott doesn't have the numbers to block legislation. That's why we have the NBN, the mining tax, the carbon tax - all measures very firmly opposed by Tony Abbott. He can't block legislation. Simple as that.

What he does have though, unlike any previous opposition, is the ability to get his legislation passed through the HoR as long as he can convince the independents of its merits.

 

[Pushka]

What he does have though, unlike any previous opposition, is the ability to get his legislation passed through the HoR as long as he can convince the independents of its merits.

Who won't do a thing because they still think Gillard will honour her promise.

 

[drron]

That's a bit ironic really. Gillard has been prevented from implementing her promised solution by Abbott. IT's gotten worse because of politically obstructionism.

Well many of the left wing posters here have been equating the Lib/Nat coalition with PM Gillard's position with the greens and independents.Any legislation she cant get through the Senate is because her "coalition"wont back her.Not the fault of TA.After all some of her backers here suggest she is a master of negotiation so the failure of her legislation to pass must be sheeted home to her and her alone.


I've tried very hard not to make any overly specific comments. But I'll make sure I come down and keep a close eye on you.

I'm waiting!

It is to me the saddest thing about this forum. The aggressive ultra right wing vitriol I so often read here. Compassion? Not a chance. It seems to me we have an employment level the envy of so many first world countries. A level of debt that is minuscule in comparison to the US, UK and most of Europe for that matter.

Hmmm and so the personal attacks on TA are not aggressive vitriol?There is a saying "before removing the splinter from your brother's eye....."

.

DrRon, with all respect that response is soft.
I'm not asking for any policies that may magically appear in the next few months; I'm talking about "why the hell are you actually supporting the Libs"?

For example: Do you like:
1. their "Paid Parental scheme"?
2. their gifting of 10 billion dollars to the heavy carbon polluters in the hope that these same polluters will reduce emissions. (Yes that is correct, comical, I know. But most Libs actually think the Lib position is to "Do Nothing.")
3. their plan for the re-introduction on Temporary Protection Visa, or do you like Tony using the Navy (against their charter), to Tow back boats (to countries that will not accept them)
4. his building of a "5 pillar economy". Now I know that this is not actually policy; but I couldn't find anything else.

So over to you right wingers; is it any of the above 4? Is there something/anything about the Libs that you actually know?

And with all due respect Browski you do not understand politics as it is played in Australia.The Opposition leader releases his policies at the time of his/her campaign launch.This applies to both the Libs and the ALP.There is no convention that says the Opposition Leader should release policies 7 months before an election./
And I am sure you have heard the saying-Oppositions do not win elections,governments lose them.It looks quite like that will happen again in September.

Though I am sure PM Gillard will look back to Kim Beazley in 2001 where in January he was in a similiar position to TA but still lost.And I know those gently speaking left wingers will say-What about the Tampa?Of course this ignores the fact that the polls had turned around before that incident and that there was a strong rise in the polls for the Liberals after the 11th of September 2001.But those gentle left wingers do like a conspiracy.

Anyway Browski your words are straight out of John McTernan's playbook and should be allowed to go through to the keeper.

 

[Moody]

As we see. My idea of a perfect solution is one where the participants don't die as part of the process.

You may argue technicalities as much as you wish, but if you are telling us that a scheme that involves hundreds of deaths each year is better than one where nobody dies, then you need to rearrange your priorities.

Please point to where I said this, Skyring, otherwise I expect an apology. Sorry - "expect" is unrealistic ... should have said "deserve" because there is no chance of decent behaviour on this forum.

 

[SQ421]

You don't run a business, do you?

Successful businesses adapt. The ones that fail manage to find someone to blame. Today it is the Labor Government with their "carbon tax" and "increased red tape", in a few years it will be the Liberal Government who've increased skilled migration, and the new migrants are undercutting the existing small business owners. Incidentally, Tony's numbers of "new jobs created in the next decade" aligns uncomfortably close to the projected number of skilled migrants expected to arrive in Australia over the next decade. Make of that what you will.

So, back to the question.

29% tax against 30% tax, good or bad?

"Levy" on businesses to dole out money for having children, good or bad?

 

[Skyring]

Didn't the government go back and revise the Malaysia solution and propose legislation to implement Malaysia MkII as well as Nauru etc.

Gillard proposed any number of things in her time. None of them have worked.

This isn't something like a force of nature, out of our controi. Howard had a good policy, he took it to the people at an election and he was backed by the voters. It worked for years and years.

Gillard, well, she's struggling. She didn't take it to the people for endorsement, she tried this and that, she blames everyone but herself.

I know when I was in uniform, back in the day, I took responsibility for my actions. If my diggers screwed up, it was my fault for inadequate supervision, and I wore the penalty. I might then turn around and extract my own vengeance, but I didn't try to run away from the job I was being paid to do.

Pardon me if I apply the same standards to the person occupying the top leadership position in the nation. With leadership comes responsibility.

 

[Skyring]

Please point to where I said this, Skyring, otherwise I expect an apology. Sorry - "expect" is unrealistic ... should have said "deserve" because there is no chance of decent behaviour on this forum.

I beg to differ. There are any number of admirable people here. I am inspired by some of the regular posters, who are models of decency, however defined.

I put forward the proposition that if you are telling us that a scheme that involves hundreds of deaths each year is better than one where nobody dies, then you need to rearrange your priorities. I am surprised that you find this proposition offensive.

Perhaps we can clarify your position. Is a scheme that involves hundreds of deaths each year better than one where nobody dies? YES/NO

 

[Pushka]

Successful businesses adapt. The ones that fail manage to find someone to blame. Today it is the Labor Government with their "carbon tax" and "increased red tape", in a few years it will be the Liberal Government who've increased skilled migration, and the new migrants are undercutting the existing small business owners. Incidentally, Tony's numbers of "new jobs created in the next decade" aligns uncomfortably close to the projected number of skilled migrants expected to arrive in Australia over the next decade. Make of that what you will.

So, back to the question.

29% tax against 30% tax, good or bad?

"Levy" on businesses to dole out money for having children, good or bad?

Back to my question. You don't run a business, do you!

Pardon me if I apply the same standards to the person occupying the top leadership position in the nation. With leadership comes responsibility.

Yes, yes, yes!

 

[amaroo]

Abbott doesn't have the numbers to block legislation. That's why we have the NBN, the mining tax, the carbon tax - all measures very firmly opposed by Tony Abbott. He can't block legislation. Simple as that.

Well said.

Hold a press conference with the greens/Ind one day & slap each other on the back & talk about how fantastic we all are.......the next , just blame Abbott.