Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

[Alanslegal]

As for visa-overstayers, they are not a problem. We know exactly who they are, because they went through the right channels to get here and we have their identity details. We know they haven't swiped their passport on the way out, so they are still here and eventually they will come to official notice and be deported. In the meantime, they are providing their own food and housing.

Yes they are a problem, alot of them are taking jobs away from 'real' australians and their jobs often means tax avoidance which is directly affecting all of us with less tax revenue and so of. Also if they never come to the attention of officials? then how often does one get picked up if they provide for their own food and housing and do not commit any acts which brings them to the attention of anyone, such as the police. Hypothetically, I know you did? or are? driving taxis, so would you be prepared to ask every passenger if they are legal or not? I would expect a no, so how does one come to the attention of authorities if what they are doing seems legitimate.

But any how, it seems that the illegals over staying their visas seems to be treated much more favourably than those who risk their lives and come via boat. And the focus of boat people and 'border security' seems above and beyond.


And if you sit on my side, which you do not and is totally acceptable, don't get started with John Howard's children overboard issue which apparently won him the election ....... but then, was apparently a concotted lie - but that's my version of interpretation.

 

[Alanslegal]

Come September 15th or what it may be, I expect my utilities to drop by 9% ..... if not, the removal of the carbon tax is a lie Mr Abbott.

Also Mr Abbott, if you think climate change is a myth .... why even have a climate change policy?

 

[Pushka]

I had to laugh at Gillards announcement over the weekend that Mothers returning from maternity leave could ask for part time work. Wow. Thanks for permission Gillard. Let alone the fact that providing part time work is not a requirement and can't be enforced anyway, if this is the substance of labor policies for the next election then it's nothing more than polit speak. Her announcement means nothing.

The science of carbon and climate change has yet to be properly explored.

 

[777]

The science of carbon and climate change has yet to be properly explored.

... and gravity is only a theory... do we really need to go through this nuff nuffery again?

 

[drron]

... and gravity is only a theory... do we really need to go through this nuff nuffery again?

Sorry but the science of CO2 warming the atmosphere has been proven.The theory of it's consequences has not.

 

[serfty]

...
The science of carbon and climate change has yet to be properly explored.

... and gravity is only a theory... do we really need to go through this nuff nuffery again?

Sorry but the science of CO2 warming the atmosphere has been proven.The theory of it's consequences has not.

Yep, there is a thread for that in relation to taxation applied !

http://www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au/community/open-discussion/carbon-tax-29438.html

 

[777]

Sorry but the science of CO2 warming the atmosphere has been proven.The theory of it's consequences has not.

So you are saying that C02 does and is warming the atmosphere, but the jury is out on whether it is potentially a very bad thing or not?

 

[Pushka]

I didn't start the climate change stuff. .
But I do have an opinion on that which won't come as a surprise. .

 

[drron]

So you are saying that C02 does and is warming the atmosphere, but the jury is out on whether it is potentially a very bad thing or not?

Absolutely.See here-
Climate Confusion | G Cornelis van Kooten

 

[Skyring]

Yes they are a problem, alot of them are taking jobs away from 'real' australians and their jobs often means tax avoidance which is directly affecting all of us with less tax revenue and so of.

Citation needed.

Also if they never come to the attention of officials? then how often does one get picked up if they provide for their own food and housing and do not commit any acts which brings them to the attention of anyone, such as the police. Hypothetically, I know you did? or are? driving taxis, so would you be prepared to ask every passenger if they are legal or not? I would expect a no, so how does one come to the attention of authorities if what they are doing seems legitimate.

I'm not supporting visa overstayers. They are doing the wrong thing and one way or another they will be identified and deported. Or (more likely) leave of their own accord. In today's world, one can't live "under the radar" for too long. That is if you want a normal life.

And no, taxidrivers don't check for citizenship or visa documents. No more than the McDonald's girl or the checkout boy. But think of all the times we come in contact with officialdom and have to identify ourselves. You can't get married, have a drivers licence, get a phone account, an electricity account...

If these folk were a big problem, there'd be an equally big uproar. There isn't.

 

[777]

Absolutely.See here-
Climate Confusion | G Cornelis van Kooten

It's actually not a bad article that. Seems to be written in a spirit of informed skepticism. It should be calibrated with any analysis written by the thousands of other contributors to IPCC process but I'm sure your weigh their views up with equal measure.

Do you agree with his suggestion that the best mechanism to deal with climate change is a carbon tax?

I think he is spot on with his concern about snout in trough big spending government schemes ("direct action") or financially engineering cap and trade. His suggestion that the rate of the tax should rise or fall as evidence of temperature increases accumulates is also a pretty sensible idea (although there is a risk that it is a trailing indicator of damage already done).

If you're happy with that approach then I think we can agree. Leave the carbon tax (not ETS) in place and dial up or down the cost of it based on scientific evidence.

 

[SQ421]

I'd just prefer to have a business focused govt than one who has shown itself to devour its own kind and as a government made some poor decisions.

So, a government that'll slap a levy on businesses to fund its maternity leave scheme is business focussed?

Shouldn't the Liberal party be advocating a market based solution to paid maternity leave, and let the employers decide for themselves how much they wish to pay their employees and how long for, when they take maternity leave? Won't the market then decide if this benefit is worth offering in search for best and brightest talent, or if there isn't enough demand to support this initiative.

 

[drron]

Now 777 that was not his major conclusion but the best of the economic scenarios.It of course is not what we have here,the EU or NZ-the latter 2 showing enormous fluctuations in price without any relationship to temperatures.And of course we will be joining this party.
However if such a system were in place i would be much happier with that than our present arrangements.

Then there is this article where he suggests that for wind(or solar) to be cheaper than coal you need a carbon price of $C200 a tonne.But in that scenario nuclear comes out a cheaper option-
Why does Nuclear beat Wind and Solar as Clean Energy? | G Cornelis van Kooten

That scares me.At $200 a tonne Whyalla may indeed be a ghost town.

 

[SQ421]

. But think of all the times we come in contact with officialdom and have to identify ourselves. You can't get married, have a drivers licence, get a phone account, an electricity account...

Getting a Drivers License, a phone account and a utility accout is absolutely not a problem whilst remaining in Australia illegally. *especially* if you entered Australia on any sort of a substantiative visa (most visa's other than Tourist) in the first place....

 

[Pushka]

So, a government that'll slap a levy on businesses to fund its maternity leave scheme is business focussed?

Shouldn't the Liberal party be advocating a market based solution to paid maternity leave, and let the employers decide for themselves how much they wish to pay their employees and how long for, when they take maternity leave? Won't the market then decide if this benefit is worth offering in search for best and brightest talent, or if there isn't enough demand to support this initiative.

Why do you pick out one thing in isolation and run with that?

 

[Deleted member]

But he does have the numbers to make sure legislation can pass. Instead he decided to play games and put people at risk.

It takes two to play

 

[Skyring]

Getting a Drivers License, a phone account and a utility accout is absolutely not a problem whilst remaining in Australia illegally. *especially* if you entered Australia on any sort of a substantiative visa (most visa's other than Tourist) in the first place....

Citation needed.

 

[dfcatch]

My position is the demonising of refugees and use of them as a political football is THE BEHAVIOUR OF SCUM. Can you please vote YES/NO to that proposition?

See Moody - I posit that a significant number of voters see it as a legitimate issue and are concerned about the government's lack of control of our borders.

I believe the polls have shown time and again that it is a legitimate issue in the community - and that's why it's a political football.

It's not a figment of imagination (regardless of your individual support or not for offshore processing).

 

[SQ421]

Why do you pick out one thing in isolation and run with that?

Because it is one of their big pre-election promises, that deserves scrutiny.

And they plan to fund their PPL by slapping a levy on businesses, do they not?
And they refused to back legislation to reduce the company tax rate, did they not? (infact, the PPL levy will increase it, right?)
And they also claim that market based outcomes work, don't they?
So why does the self proclaimed business focussed party not let the market decide?

Shouldn't the party that championed individual workplace contracts be leaving this aspect to the employees and employers to work out between themselves, based on the needs of the employee and the employer. You know, like any other market based solution. Supply and Demand.

Or is this party the party of Agrarian Socialism and Religious Conservatism with a dash of selective welfare thrown in?

And Oh, I'm also curious to know how Joe Hockey aims to ensure that the banks pass on the full rate cut (and don't slug rate rises beyond the RBA rate rises) to the consumers. I mean really.

 

[Moody]

Things that I know :-

The earth is not flat
The moon landings were not faked
Human activity causes climate change
Tampa and "Children Overboard" define what it is to be Australian (amongst other things)