Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

[SQ421]

Citation needed.

I have, at various times, obtained all three without providing any document that would establish with certainty, my legal status in Australia.

 

[dfcatch]

Well kids it's been fun - but my connections worked and I'm off to invest some capitalistic dollars in the shareholders of the Bellagio

 

[Moody]

Citation needed.

You have got to be joking!

I have worked with an "illegal" in a large telco, who was having a fat time in Oz until they tracked him down and took him off to Villawood. After a holiday back home he concocted an arranged marriage with a willing "skip" so he finally got his permanent residency. There's a lot of it about, but you can believe me or not if it doesn't suit your argument. You have already shown yourself to be worth ignoring under your own set of standards (protracted bias).

 

[Skyring]

I have, at various times, obtained all three without providing any document that would establish with certainty, my legal status in Australia.

Mmmm, but that's not quite the same thing, is it? Unless, of course, your name is on the list of visa overstayers. I may completely overestimate the competence of the Immigration folk, but I would imagine that data-matching is a fairly basic tool in picking up illegals.

It doesn't seem to be a problem. About 20 000 people overstay their visas in any given year, and about 20 000 are identified and legalised one way or another. Audit brochure

 

[Skyring]

You have got to be joking!

I have worked with an "illegal" in a large telco, who was having a fat time in Oz until they tracked him down and took him off to Villawood.

That's my point precisely. Overstay your visa and you'll get picked up.

 

[SQ421]

Mmmm, but that's not quite the same thing, is it?

It is, unless the credit check system is designed to query Immigration to ascertain the legal status of an individual, which it isn't.

Unless, of course, your name is on the list of visa overstayers.

I may completely overestimate the competence of the Immigration folk, but I would imagine that data-matching is a fairly basic tool in picking up illegals.

AFAIK (and unless things have changed in the last 2-3 years) ATO <-> DIAC/Customs data matching is actively pursued only to track Centrelink Benefit Recipients (who may leave the country, upon which their benefits need to be suspended) and to process Superannuation Repartriation of temporary visa holders who've declared that they have permanenetly left Australia. Short of that, you could have a TFN/ABN, pay the requisite amout of tax and there's no automatic flag that goes off indicating that you infact aren't entitled to work in Australia.

It doesn't seem to be a problem. About 20 000 people overstay their visas in any given year, and about 20 000 are identified and legalised one way or another. Audit brochure

And if the 20,000 visa overstayers transalte to 0.2% of the total number of visitors into Australia, wonder how much the 6000 or so Asylum Seekers make up, of the total migration into Australia each year.

 

[amaroo]

The mining tax has been a pretty woeful effort all round. No complaints there. But it's an act of incredible chutzpah to switch gears mid debate from "This tax is going to kill the mining industry" to "ha ha, it's set so low it doesn't raise any money." Anyone who argued the first position was clearly way off base.

As for Mr Swan, this is not a good time to be a treasurer anywhere in the world, simply tell me which other international treasurer you would be happy to swap with right now?

Joe Hockey Its just a shame we have to wait until September!

 

[Skyring]

It is, unless the credit check system is designed to query Immigration to ascertain the legal status of an individual, which it isn't.

That's for a driver's licence? :shock:

Trust me on this. If you get a drivers licence, you also get onto a government database.

 

[Skyring]

Joe Hockey Its just a shame we have to wait until September!

It's going to be a long seven months for Ms Gillard.

 

[Moody]

Joe Hockey Its just a shame we have to wait until September!

Not so much of a shame, given his performance as opposition treasurer. Just Google "Joe Hockey Black Hole" if you are game for a laugh.

In the end they all talk tough and then they get into government and reality hits. Look at all the backflips and lies that BoF has perpetrated now that he actually has to manage NSW. [ Hey - I'm not saying he is any worse than the rabble before him. But the jury is out on whether he is any better. ]

 

[SQ421]

That's for a driver's licence? :shock:

Trust me on this. If you get a drivers licence, you also get onto a government database.

I'm sure I'll get on a Government Database. I don't think that database (which is separate for each state) queries my immigration status.

 

[Pukka]

Things that I know :-

The earth is not flat
The moon landings were not faked
Human activity causes climate change
Tampa and "Children Overboard" define what it is to be Australian (amongst other things)

And global warming was renamed climate change because the warming stopped 16 years ago, and we wouldn't want that to get in the way of all those new taxes, surcharges, etc etc

 

[Moody]

And global warming was renamed climate change because the warming stopped 16 years ago, and we wouldn't want that to get in the way of all those new taxes, surcharges, etc etc

I didn't realise that the average global temperature had stabilsed - can you point me to the evidence?

 

[Pukka]

I didn't realise that the average global temperature had stabilsed - can you point me to the evidence?

Global warming stopped 16 years ago, reveals Met Office report quietly released... and here is the chart to prove it
The figures reveal that from the beginning of 1997 until August 2012 there was no discernible rise in aggregate global temperatures
This means that the ‘pause’ in global warming has now lasted for about the same time as the previous period when temperatures rose, 1980 to 1996
By DAVID ROSE
PUBLISHED: 21:42 GMT, 13 October 2012 | UPDATED: 13:59 GMT, 16 October 2012
Comments (958)
Share

The world stopped getting warmer almost 16 years ago, according to new data released last week.
The figures, which have triggered debate among climate scientists, reveal that from the beginning of 1997 until August 2012, there was no discernible rise in aggregate global temperatures.
This means that the ‘plateau’ or ‘pause’ in global warming has now lasted for about the same time as the previous period when temperatures rose, 1980 to 1996. Before that, temperatures had been stable or declining for about 40 years.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...y-released--chart-prove-it.html#ixzz2Kagnkl63
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

 

[amaroo]

Not so much of a shame, given his performance as opposition treasurer. Just Google "Joe Hockey Black Hole" if you are game for a laugh.

Too busy laughing at the daily antics & head nodding of Swan. Have you noticed how this bloke can't keep his head still when he talks.......I put it down to some kind of inbuilt BS detector.

 

[Sprucegoose]

Things that I know :-

The earth is not flat
The moon landings were not faked
Human activity causes climate change
Tampa and "Children Overboard" define what it is to be Australian (amongst other things)

My god, the moon landings were not fake!!!!!

 

[777]

Global warming stopped 16 years ago, reveals Met Office report quietly released... and here is the chart to prove it
The figures reveal that from the beginning of 1997 until August 2012 there was no discernible rise in aggregate global temperatures
This means that the ‘pause’ in global warming has now lasted for about the same time as the previous period when temperatures rose, 1980 to 1996
By DAVID ROSE
PUBLISHED: 21:42 GMT, 13 October 2012 | UPDATED: 13:59 GMT, 16 October 2012
Comments (958)
Share

The world stopped getting warmer almost 16 years ago, according to new data released last week.
The figures, which have triggered debate among climate scientists, reveal that from the beginning of 1997 until August 2012, there was no discernible rise in aggregate global temperatures.
This means that the ‘plateau’ or ‘pause’ in global warming has now lasted for about the same time as the previous period when temperatures rose, 1980 to 1996. Before that, temperatures had been stable or declining for about 40 years.


Read more: Global warming stopped 16 years ago, reveals Met Office report quietly released... and here is the chart to prove it | Mail Online
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

I suggest you look at the actual data. Any idiot can pull this trick - pick a hot day in winter and cold day in summer and then argue that summer is colder than winter. Don't you think it's kind of odd that the start and end dates ("beginning of 1997 and August 2012") aren't even comparing the same time of year?

 

[Moody]

Daily Mail, eh? Well it must be true then .... sort of.

1997-8 saw a big spike in global average temperatures due to the El Nino event of that year. If you pick that year as the starting point the trend seems to be flat, if you pick a starting point either side of 1997 you get a different story. There is some evidence we are entering another El Nino episode but the pattern is not very predictable and you only know for sure once it is already here. That is the trouble with climate science - the overlapping models behave in counter-intuitive ways sometimes, and I'm sure there will be at least one scientist whose model predicts global cooling once CO2 levels reach a certain milestone.

Basically if you can justify your claims on the basis of theory backed by measurement, then you have a right to be heard. If you reject anthropomorphic climate changed because of political beliefs, then you have the right to be ridiculed.

 

[JessicaTam]

Global warming stopped 16 years ago, reveals Met Office report quietly released... and here is the chart to prove it
The figures reveal that from the beginning of 1997 until August 2012 there was no discernible rise in aggregate global temperatures
This means that the ‘pause’ in global warming has now lasted for about the same time as the previous period when temperatures rose, 1980 to 1996
By DAVID ROSE
PUBLISHED: 21:42 GMT, 13 October 2012 | UPDATED: 13:59 GMT, 16 October 2012
Comments (958)
Share

The world stopped getting warmer almost 16 years ago, according to new data released last week.
The figures, which have triggered debate among climate scientists, reveal that from the beginning of 1997 until August 2012, there was no discernible rise in aggregate global temperatures.
This means that the ‘plateau’ or ‘pause’ in global warming has now lasted for about the same time as the previous period when temperatures rose, 1980 to 1996. Before that, temperatures had been stable or declining for about 40 years.


Read more: Global warming stopped 16 years ago, reveals Met Office report quietly released... and here is the chart to prove it | Mail Online
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

I believe the MET office report was used in a similar article recently, which has since been resoundingly refuted. Sorry, I have no reference.

 

[Skyring]

Basically if you can justify your claims on the basis of theory backed by measurement, then you have a right to be heard. If you reject anthropomorphic climate changed because of political beliefs, then you have the right to be ridiculed.

Or support it...

Yup, the actual data for the last decade and a bit show the warming trend has flattened out.

There are two ways this can happen.
1. It is a local variation, a quirk of the data. Just as a sustained bull market will show long sub-periods when the trend is apparently reversing, the overall trend has a local past high and a current low that can give the appearance of a reversal. But if we look at the past century and a bit, it's all uphill.
2. Something has happened over the last few years to reverse the long term trend.

There is no doubt at all that we are putting more CO2 into the atmosphere than ever before. CO2 causes atmospheric warming. The science is solid.

What the simple-minded political sports team fans don't know is that CO2 is not the only greenhouse gas. Not even the most important.

More solid science. Sulphur dioxide has an effect, as does particulate matter. Volcanic eruptions on a massive scale have the effect of cooling the planet, and we saw that after Krakatoa.

Fossil fuels, such as coal, also contain sulphur, and if it is burnt, produces sulphur dioxide and particulate material. Look at the rise of China and India, fueled by coal from Australia. They are pumping out staggering amounts of CO2. You want to fix carbon emissions, tinkering around with the sparrow fart's worth of CO2 Australia produces is like rearranging the tableware on the Titanic. China has to do something about its vast emissions problem otherwise the rest of us might as well be twiddling our fingers.

Anybody here flying into Asia knows about the pall of smog that perpetually hangs over the eastern mainland of Asia. Hong Kong and Beijing are only clean for a moment after a storm sweeps through and blows all the cough someplace else. It is a MASSIVE problem. Sydney gets the occasional bad day when there's a bit of haze, but holy moloney, China takes the biscuit.

I'm afraid that political discussion over global warming is always going to be off-target, coloured by the deeply-held beliefs of the participants. Heaven forfend that your political sports team leader is talking rubbish. Hell no, they are preaching gospel and the other side are lying heathens. If you can't attack the facts, attack the speakers. Which is what we are seeing here in this discussion.