Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

[spudseamus]

Skyring you hit the nail on the head ! The reason the greens don't waver is because they know they will never be in a position to implement their core beliefs !

 

[Rox]

Skyring you hit the nail on the head ! The reason the greens don't waver is because they know they will never be in a position to implement their core beliefs !

I'm hoping for a "Bergen" ( the tv series) moment!

 

[Skyring]

The poor generally receive more in benefits than they pay in tax (if they pay any tax at all).

But now you are getting into the problems associated with Effective Marginal Tax Rates. Do you really support such a poverty trap?

 

[cove]

We would have a much higher taxing nation if we had covered the Federal spending without borrowing billions. I don't believe Labor wishes to ever balance any Federal Budget despite saying they would 100 times or so.
In between time our elderly are doing it tough and our young ones with babies are finding it is very hard to survive on a single family income rather than both working.
I remain concerned that so much talent is retiring from work and ceasing to pay taxes as that leaves a growing hole in our Budget Revenue. Our children and grandchildren are going to be left with paying interest on the debt.
GST goes to the State Governments and is a pretty efficient tax compared with Fringe Benefits Tax which takes businesses a huge amount of effort to produce a modest tax payment.
There is just too much time and effort required by businesses to pay these inefficient bolted on charges seeing we were promised a simpler future a while back.

 

[drsmithy]

They didn't say they were going broke they talked of letting go large chunks of their workforce. Big difference. You called BS I showed you a published article that disagreed with your comment.

Having to can half your workforce overnight is broken. Heck, having to can 10% of your workforce overnight would be a pretty bad sign.

My point was, and remains, that blaming a massive headcount reduction like that on one factor is bollocks. There's something else going on - most likely they've been skirting close to the edge for some time and that simply offered a good excuse.

I know our company supplies odometer readings at 6 monthly intervals on signed declarations. Something like that should suffice.

Probably not if the vehicles are privately owned.

 

[drsmithy]

But now you are getting into the problems associated with Effective Marginal Tax Rates. Do you really support such a poverty trap?

I can't see anything I said to suggest I do. My point was that poor people don't pay much tax because they don't earn much. Ergo, reducing their tax bill has negligible benefits.

You can thank Howard & Costello for making it "normal" that average (and even above average) earners expect (/need) welfare assistance to get by.

 

[drsmithy]

We would have a much higher taxing nation if we had covered the Federal spending without borrowing billions.

Well if Labor were taxing as high as Howard was, that would probably cover most of it.

I don't believe Labor wishes to ever balance any Federal Budget despite saying they would 100 times or so.

They can wish a great deal, but after being left a poisoned chalice by the Liberals, then getting hit with the GFC, and now a winding down of the mining boom, chances are low. Especially when a downturning economy is when Government should be stepping in to help fill the demand gap.

In between time our elderly are doing it tough and our young ones with babies are finding it is very hard to survive on a single family income rather than both working.
I remain concerned that so much talent is retiring from work and ceasing to pay taxes as that leaves a growing hole in our Budget Revenue.

The best way to capture taxation revenue from the retiring and asset-rich is by upping the GST and introducing a broad land tax.
Such changes would need to be offset with increases in assistance to low income earners since a GST increase would hit them proportionally harder.

 

[amaroo]

They can wish a great deal, but after being left a poisoned chalice by the Liberals,

LOL this comment is hilarious.

I'm still laughing

 

[drsmithy]

LOL this comment is hilarious.

I'm still laughing

Do you disagree that Howard & Costello left a structural deficit ?

 

[Hvr]

Do you disagree that Howard & Costello left a structural deficit ?

Sadly LNP supporters can never see that Howard/Costello and Abbott were some of the most profligate wasters of money in the history of Australia.

 

[wmetz]

GST will never rise unless we get rid of state governments. GST goes to the states, so unless the Federal gov wants to take the voting pain for increasing it, then it wont happen.The only way to force it would be for federal gov to say we will not collect gst anymore, and states have too raise their own state taxes. Yes it would require referendum, to hand some tax rights back to the states, but blind freddy knows more then 50% of the people would vote to get rid of gst, without understanding what would need to be put in place.

GST is a failure, as it didnt stop cash under the table, and state governments did not remove the state taxes they promise to remove for gst funding.

As for older people working, well because of tax changes already, older people working can end up working and paying no personal income taxes. So this only makes it worst for the government, as it stops younger tax paying people entering the market.

 

[cove]

A business friendly Government would certainly help the unemployment situation.
When the Government talks to business they get in folks like Gail Kelly from Westpac who has pricing power in the market place so they earn greater profits by continually raising fees for all their services.
The Federal Government should include smaller business because that is where employment growth will come from based on the US experience as their recovery is going ok and we are sinking.

 

[amaroo]

Do you disagree that Howard & Costello left a structural deficit ?

The budget numbers tell the story......no amount of spin, BS or idiology can turn the facts around.

 

[drron]

Do you disagree that Howard & Costello left a structural deficit ?

GST will never rise unless we get rid of state governments. GST goes to the states, so unless the Federal gov wants to take the voting pain for increasing it, then it wont happen.The only way to force it would be for federal gov to say we will not collect gst anymore, and states have too raise their own state taxes. Yes it would require referendum, to hand some tax rights back to the states, but blind freddy knows more then 50% of the people would vote to get rid of gst, without understanding what would need to be put in place.

GST is a failure, as it didnt stop cash under the table, and state governments did not remove the state taxes they promise to remove for gst funding.

As for older people working, well because of tax changes already, older people working can end up working and paying no personal income taxes. So this only makes it worst for the government, as it stops younger tax paying people entering the market.

So I guess you fellows don't agree with Ken henry who at a meeting in Shanghai called for a reduction in income tax and an increase in GST?
Or 3 former Treasury secretaries-Bernie Fraser,Ted Evans,Ken Henry as well as Ross Garnaut and Productivity Commissioner Peter Harris who say we are heading for tough economic times and are critical of the lack of economic reform under the Rudd/Gillard governments.

There are those who look at the income side in calling a structural deficit,some the expenditure side and some both.So not all economists agree that Howard/Costello left a structural deficit.

 

[drsmithy]

The budget numbers tell the story......no amount of spin, BS or idiology can turn the facts around.

So... Do you disagree that Howard & Costello left a structural deficit ?

 

[amaroo]

So... Do you disagree that Howard & Costello left a structural deficit ?

Point of order Mr Speaker........I believe my post was pretty clear.

 

[drsmithy]

So I guess you fellows don't agree with Ken henry who at a meeting in Shanghai called for a reduction in income tax and an increase in GST?

Pretty much agree with all of that, though only along with the addition of a broad-based land tax.

Though I do think we need a high (say, 50%) top tax bracket that kicks in around the 250k mark, to "encourage" those 1%ers to use their money in ways more productive for everyone.

Or 3 former Treasury secretaries-Bernie Fraser,Ted Evans,Ken Henry as well as Ross Garnaut and Productivity Commissioner Peter Harris who say we are heading for tough economic times and are critical of the lack of economic reform under the Rudd/Gillard governments.

Seems odd to also ignore the lack of any economic reform under the Howard Government as well, especially since he had the most favourable economic conditions to work with.

Howard had an awesome, once-in-a-generation opportunity to create the basis for long-term wealth and prosperity for the entire nation. Invest in public infrastructure and education, encourage industries for the future, create a sovereign wealth fund to carry us through tough times, encourage egalitarianism, equality and class mobility. He even had another country in a similar situation to model it off (Norway).
Instead he hocked our public assets and all we got were unsustainable tax cuts, welfare expansion, undermined workers rights and job security, an increasing wealth divide, less class mobility, less equality, and a real estate bubble that will likely end up impoverishing this country for decades.

cough* him and the horse he rode in on. New Labor as well, since they've basically done nothing different in the 6 years since.

There are those who look at the income side in calling a structural deficit,some the expenditure side and some both.So not all economists agree that Howard/Costello left a structural deficit.

Which ones don't ?

 

[drsmithy]

Point of order Mr Speaker........I believe my post was pretty clear.

You don't disagree then. Since "the budget numbers tell the story", after all.

 

[amaroo]

You don't disagree then. Since "the budget numbers tell the story", after all.

I'm still laughing

 

[drron]

Seems you dismiss the GST and at least establishing the Future fund to pay for future needs.
So tell me how much has Mr.Swan added to the Future Fund?