Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

[amaroo]

The problem is your not using your experience to counter the facts presented. You say black is white and against that I give you cold hard numbers that say otherwise. I certainly value cold hard facts over a couple of examples presented without any evidence. I also think that the overall picture is best represented by information from all areas not just a couple of examples. After all, the issue is the big picture not what's happening in xyz st southport.

You say black - I say its crystal clear.

 

[drsmithy]

The policy is about stopping the illegal trade of people smuggling, which IS dangerous, and IS illegal. I think everyone, on both sides of politics, has compassion for genuine refugees, and I certainly would not be against our intake being lifted to 27000 as is being suggested.

Some 90%-odd of boat arrivals are found to be "genuine refugees". Substantially more than those arriving by plane.
A law that dictates everyone arriving by boat goes to PNG, but has no special treatment for plane arrivals is, therefore, not demonstrating a lot of "compassion" for those "genuine refugees".

 

[drsmithy]

They ARE illegal by virtue of their method of arrival.

Not according to the law.

They ARE jumping the queue by virtue of their actions to force Australia's hand in dealing with them ahead of others applying for asylum.

As was pointed out on Q&A this week, there's not actually a "queue" for them to "jump".

 

[drsmithy]

I'm sorry you see it that way, and while I can't force you to answer the questions repeatedly asked, or to present anything other than your own opinion, my position remains unchanged.

Seeking asylum is not illegal. Entering Australia without valid documents is.

That's my position, and I see it as that of a reasonable person.

That doesn't make it any less wrong.

 

[Skyring]

I think this is the first time I've agreed with you 100% in this thread

I like the new policy in that it means that the people with $0, waiting in camps, have a better chance of getting an Australian asylum seeker place, as opposed to those that somehow have $10-20k to get to Australia.

The policy is about stopping the illegal trade of people smuggling, which IS dangerous, and IS illegal. I think everyone, on both sides of politics, has compassion for genuine refugees, and I certainly would not be against our intake being lifted to 27000 as is being suggested.

There's another boat sunk today, with more loss of life. If these were airliners crashing, even if only three people died in the crash, then there would be a massive uproar.

The human tragedy is the same, whether they be platinum millionaires or destitute villagers.

 

[drron]

Indeed a broad based review of data certainly does hold more water than 2 antidotal examples.

Well here are the facts for the Wide Bay area from the Government statistician-
http://qrsis.oesr.qld.gov.au/pls/qis_public/QIS1110W$UDQCTL1.ProcessActions

You can look at other areas if you wish but they come out just as stated.
so for Wide Bay which includes Hervey bay the median sale price for the year ended June 2008 was 278000.for the year ended December 2012 279000.IE 4.5 years of no real rise.
For units-
http://qrsis.oesr.qld.gov.au/pls/qis_public/QIS1110W$UDQCTL1.ProcessActions

So an apartment's median price was 250000 for the year ending dec 2006.
For the year ending Dec 2012-252800 so basically no rise in 6 years.

PS-since you are so precise about words meaning I presumed you meant anecdotal rather than a treatment for the examples.

 

[Hvr]

There's another boat sunk today, with more loss of life. If these were airliners crashing, even if only three people died in the crash, then there would be a massive uproar.

The human tragedy is the same, whether they be platinum millionaires or destitute villagers.

And yet according to politicians from both major parties they are merely economic refugees and not worth treating with dignity.

 

[drron]

So you are arguing that newspaper polls should be considered more authoritative than ""the letter of the Australian law" ?

You guys who think things should be decided based on a popularity contest, are scary.

Definitely not.I am arguing that the average Australian believes what I said.Your definitions are irrelevant to them.I talk to a lot of ordinary Australians with my job.Overwhelmingly they disagree with you.
You see I can live with people who are "born to rule".You can always spike their plans.
I have great difficulty with people who are born knowing they are morally superior to the average Joe.They are never wrong.

 

[Skyring]

And yet according to politicians from both major parties they are merely economic refugees and not worth treating with dignity.

Think about it. Put yourself in their shoes. What's more important to you personally?

Your dignity.

Or your life?

 

[drsmithy]

Definitely not.I am arguing that the average Australian believes what I said.Your definitions are irrelevant to them.I talk to a lot of ordinary Australians with my job.Overwhelmingly they disagree with you.

No-one questions this. What's your point ?

 

[whatmeworry]

Consumers haven't been spending for over a year, it has nothing to do with Rudd.

I have been spending... but it has been with oversea stores.

 

[whatmeworry]

Sounds like super Kevin needs to send out more $900 bribes then

How many different types of bribes did Howard give out?

 

[drron]

No-one questions this. What's your point ?

You seriously don't get my point?
Your opinions are irrelevant to a majority of Australians.end of story.

 

[Moody]

Definitely not.I am arguing that the average Australian believes what I said.Your definitions are irrelevant to them.I talk to a lot of ordinary Australians with my job.Overwhelmingly they disagree with you.
You see I can live with people who are "born to rule".You can always spike their plans.
I have great difficulty with people who are born knowing they are morally superior to the average Joe.They are never wrong.

Ah yes - "Ordinary Australians". What an apt term.

[Damn ... I fell right into your trap!!!]

 

[drsmithy]

You seriously don't get my point?
Your opinions are irrelevant to a majority of Australians.end of story.

They're not opinions, they're facts.

Being unpopular, makes them no less true, which is the point you seem to be struggling with.

 

[Hvr]

Definitely not.I am arguing that the average Australian believes what I said.Your definitions are irrelevant to them.I talk to a lot of ordinary Australians with my job.Overwhelmingly they disagree with you.
You see I can live with people who are "born to rule".You can always spike their plans.
I have great difficulty with people who are born knowing they are morally superior to the average Joe.They are never wrong.

You're basically describing the Liberal party of which you're an unabashed supporter. Why would you sabotage them?

 

[drron]

You're basically describing the Liberal party of which you're an unabashed supporter. Why would you sabotage them?

Good try but no bananas.

 

[Pukka]

They're not opinions, they're facts.

Being unpopular, makes them no less true, which is the point you seem to be struggling with.

Facts lol. It's just uber left wing diatribe.

TA is a certainty for PM and you're not going to like what he does but you better get used to the idea and accept that that's what the majority of Australians want.

$1.28 TA is home and hosed as they say

 

[serfty]

... and accept that that's what the majority of Australians want.

$1.28 TA is home and hosed as they say

Likely a majority (2pp) but probably not enough to control the senate.

 

[quokka77]

Tony is not a certainty for pm yet. Let's for fun think of some differences between the parties. TA will abolish the carbon pricing mechanism. Kevin Rudd will merely quarter the price. Both will allow punters to keep the 'compensation' for this non-impost. Tony will give paid maturity leave to working women on up to$150k per annum and levy big business to pay for it. He will strip $500million in car subsidies. Kevin will rejig the tax rules such that up to 300k people will either have to fill in a log book or lose access to salary packaging of a vehicle. Rudd will build fibre to the home Abbott to the node. Rudd will collect relatively small amounts of tax from new entrants to mining. Abbott will not. Rudd will attempt to get States ontoa new funding formula for education. Tony will not but hasn't said how he will distribute education money. Both would like asylum seekers to stop getting on leaky boats but disagree on which punitive measure to use to this end. I'm finding it hard to get overly enthusiastic. Maybe if the Libs can put some more meat on the policy bone there will be some more points of difference but really hard to see a big Telstra sale, Work Choices or GST to give people a genuine decision to make