Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

[medhead]

And all am I saying is that preferential voting is not a fair system when it can throw up anomalies like the one predicted right now.

Which is a load of cough. Preferential voting elects the 6 most preferred candidates. Clearly if the number 2 on the Xenophon ticket doesn't get elected the most people didn't want them. Full stop.

The Greeks get the blame for everything.

Their current system is a little better than ours here but requires more funding. If a candidate does not have 50% of the primary vote then another election is held as a 2 horse race. That is how it should be.

We all know preferences can be manipulated which is what is happening right now.

Well they will event democracy.

What you describe as fairer does not sound fairer. It also does not apply to the senate election process where they are trying to elect 6 people not 1.

Once again - hare Clark.

 

[medhead]

Actually, remind drsmithy because I was commenting on this.

I agree with the sentiment that 51% doesn't give the right to do anything you want. That's why the senate exists.

 

[cgichard]

A bit late in the day but I've just discovered this alternative to the ubiquitous ABC Compass quiz:
The Prime Minister Machine: mix and match your own Australian PM | World news | theguardian.com

It is much more wordy but far less easy to guess the outcome. And some obvious issues, such as asylum seekers, were not covered at all. In my case the result was very different from my Compass result. How I voted in practice was different again but closer to Compass than the Guardian. I'd be interested to hear how others find it.

 

[mono88]

And all am I saying is that preferential voting is not a fair system when it can throw up anomalies like the one predicted right now.



We all know preferences can be manipulated which is what is happening right now.

One of the reasons that the preferential system was adopted was to improve fairness. The design was to ensure that your vote and view was not wasted even if you voted for an unsuccessful candidate i.e your vote always counts. Unlike in the first past the post system.

It generally works well in the House of Reps but is unwieldy with a large number of candidates a la Senate,which is a State wide vote.

Preferences have always been manipulated by all parties; there are "deals" at every election.
Given the nature of the Senate as the house of review and protector of State's rights, then rather than changing the preferential system it may be better to limit the number and type of candidate who can stand for Senate. But given the nature of each State, you can almost predict what type of maverick each one will throw up and elect.

 

[amaroo]

I agree with the sentiment that 51% doesn't give the right to do anything you want. That's why the senate exists.

Howard failed the test of ultimate control of the both houses.......and now the ALP (pushed by the Greens) have learnt the same lesson. The Greens are the real winners - didn't lose a seat and look like collecting an extra one in the Senate.

The hard heads of the ALP must rue the day they agreed to do a deal with the Greens.

 

[JohnK]

Which is a load of cough. Preferential voting elects the 6 most preferred candidates. Clearly if the number 2 on the Xenophon ticket doesn't get elected the most people didn't want them. Full stop.

What full stop?

The 6 most preferred candidates? By whom? Via the wheeling and dealing done behind closed doors?

The person voting for the 32nd candidate, the 31st candidate did not know their vote was going to go to Australia Greens or Family First who were going to be the 17th and 18th candidates? Or are you saying everyone that votes should find out exactly what is going on?

My previous statement stands and hoping that sanity prevails and the party with the most votes to almost have an outright 2nd Senate seat actually gets that 2nd Senate seat.

You can worry about the rest of the technicalities.

 

[medhead]

What full stop?

The 6 most preferred candidates? By whom? Via the wheeling and dealing done behind closed doors?

Umm, by the electorate that is whom.

The person voting for the 32nd candidate, the 31st candidate did not know their vote was going to go to Australia Greens or Family First who were going to be the 17th and 18th candidates? Or are you saying everyone that votes should find out exactly what is going on?

Of course, the person voting for the 31st/32nd knows where their vote is going. They have the choice in how they vote. If they vote above the line then they have exercised their choice to follow that parties ticket. If they don't know where there vote is going they are imbeciles of the first order.

Full stop, because there is nothing more to say.

My previous statement stands and hoping that sanity prevails and the party with the most votes to almost have an outright 2nd Senate seat actually gets that 2nd Senate seat.

You can worry about the rest of the technicalities.

The fact that you don't bother to worry about the technicalities is precisely why you are falsely claiming it is unfair.

You have you opinion, but in my opinion it's based on a poor understanding for preferential voting. It's your choice to have an opinion uninformed by the facts. And I have nothing more to say on the topic.

 

[medhead]

Howard failed the test of ultimate control of the both houses.......and now the ALP (pushed by the Greens) have learnt the same lesson. The Greens are the real winners - didn't lose a seat and look like collecting an extra one in the Senate.

That's all very interesting but tangential to my point.

The hard heads of the ALP must rue the day they agreed to do a deal with the Greens.

The real lesson here is about letting Abbott get away with his BS scare campaign. Outright lie of his to claim he was going to save us four times the actual cost of the carbon tax. The electorate the believed that cough needs their heads read.

 

[Pushka]

That doesn't make it a scare campaign. That label sticks well and truly on the Labor one.

 

[drsmithy]

It makes no sense. The majority are not getting a say. The minority are getting a say which is one of the biggest problems in this country.

Oh, yes.

For example ?

 

[Pukka]

Well since Abbott is going to save us from everything else. I look forward to him getting the Cricket team and the Wallabies back to winning.


edit: I also see that no one has commented on the averted irony of Rudd being ousted by a union hack.

Well I was at the Wallabies match last night and I can tell you he's got a big job on his hands.

 

[moa999]

Cricketers have made a good start tonight... and Webber doing well at Monza

Unfortunately the socceroos did not perform last night

 

[Hvr]

<snip>

Unfortunately the socceroos did not perform last night

Unfortunately they were waxed and then they waned against the Brazilians.

 

[medhead]

That doesn't make it a scare campaign. That label sticks well and truly on the Labor one.

Lying to people that something has vastly inflated costs and ignoring the real source of the extra cost is a scare campaign. Especially when doing it to get votes. I'm sorry if you can't accept that Abbott lied to the electorate. But rather dodgy that you don't hold Abbott to the standard you apply to the alp.

 

[medhead]

Well I was at the Wallabies match last night and I can tell you he's got a big job on his hands.

He's going to turn back the GFC. Wallabies should be a cake walk.

 

[TheRealTMA]

There's some good recommendations on how to survive the next three years here - 10 ways to survive the Tony Abbott years | Ben Pobjie | Comment is free | theguardian.com
i recommend point 10...

 

[drsmithy]

What full stop?

The 6 most preferred candidates? By whom? Via the wheeling and dealing done behind closed doors?

The person voting for the 32nd candidate, the 31st candidate did not know their vote was going to go to Australia Greens or Family First who were going to be the 17th and 18th candidates? Or are you saying everyone that votes should find out exactly what is going on?

Wait, what ? How is that any different from people voting for irrelevant candidate X and thanks to preferences having their votes end up with one of the people you happen to like ?

 

[whatmeworry]

The world already comparing Tony Abbott to George W. Bush...
Tony Abbott likened to George W Bush as world considers Australia's new PM

Rupert Murdoch showing his true colours.

The US-based media mogul took to social media site Twitter on Saturday evening to accuse public sector workers, along with “phony welfare scroungers,” of sucking the life out of Australia’s economy.

Mr Murdoch, whose Australian newspaper empire campaigned for a Coalition win, returned to Twitter in the early hours of Sunday morning to accuse public sector workers of taking many more sick days than their private sector counterparts.
“Small item: Apart from higher pay, public workers in Australia take many more sick days than those in hard working private sector!” he tweeted.
A key campaign pledge of incoming Prime Minister Tony Abbott is to axe 12,000 public service jobs.

Read more: Murdoch hits out at public servants
​

 

[Skyring]

Thanks to all for the entertainment and conversation over the past few months. It's been an interesting campaign, and I'm glad it ended with a good result: democracy.

Though I'm not too sure about some of those Senate choices!

 

[amaroo]

The Greeks get the blame for everything.

Their current system is a little better than ours here but requires more funding. If a candidate does not have 50% of the primary vote then another election is held as a 2 horse race. That is how it should be.

We all know preferences can be manipulated which is what is happening right now.

JohnK you need to look at this through another prism!

Seems to me this Senate rort is the easiest way to achieve CL status with QF. We should create the AFF party and draw straws to see who would get the No 1 ticket....bingo CL in the bag. Rotating guesting should see many AFF'rs gate crash the party