Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

[casanovawa]

Re: Abbott in Government

No sane person is going to faff around marking 100+ boxes... When the lines were stretching and people waiting 15 minutes in the morning to vote, the people waiting behind you to get it over and done with would give you the hurry up before you made it half way...

 

[medhead]

Re: Abbott in Government

Yes re the 90% of numbers. No re three errors. As soon as there is a break in consecutive numbers the vote (before the 90% level) is invalid.

Not according to the link provided and also Antony Green agreed. 3 sequencing errors are allowed. That should cover a break in consecutive numbers.

As for below line voting, not all squares must be completed and up to three sequencing errors are permitted. But at least 90 per cent of squares must be completed for the vote to be valid.

 

[medhead]

Re: Abbott in Government

No sane person is going to faff around marking 100+ boxes... When the lines were stretching and people waiting 15 minutes in the morning to vote, the people waiting behind you to get it over and done with would give you the hurry up before you made it half way...

I only had 73 boxes to mark, but the hold up in my BER provided polling place was getting the forms. There were plenty of booths available.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

The Australian Frequent Flyer Party.

something similar would not be such a bad idea! primary platform would be to introduce an air traveller bill of rights... similar to the EU compensation scheme. it could work well with the Xenophon party to get legislation up and passed.

 

[Pushka]

Re: Abbott in Government

I voted in a country town out of Adelaide on the way down to the river Murray. Queues were awful in Adelaide but where I voted I walked straight to the desk. And I did mark every box.

 

[JohnK]

Good to see the political discussion is still going strong.

When is the next election?

 

[risky]

Re: Abbott in Government

FYI, there is a complete list of all registered tickets for each party/group that provided one, for each state/territory. This is helpfully provided by the AEC as a set of downloadable CSV files: 2013 federal election downloads - Australian Electoral Commission.

I downloaded my state (NSW, of the 110 candidates), and got them into a spreadsheet and extracted various groups into separate sheets. When you sort by preference, you can see exactly how each party ticket assigns preferences. And I have to say, it was fascinating. Preference flows were not always what you might have predicted, and to my mind at least, not always rational. However, it seemed that other than putting their most hated party/group last for symbolic reasons, on many tickets significance probably stopped after about 40 places. It would be interesting to know how far down that ballot you actually get before the ballot gets "stuck" where the candidate is not excluded and the vote released.

 

[11sjw]

Good to see the political discussion is still going strong.

When is the next election?

Time for a thread lock?

 

[Hvr]

Re: Abbott in Government

Not according to the link provided and also Antony Green agreed. 3 sequencing errors are allowed. That should cover a break in consecutive numbers.

Not according to the AEC.

• put the numbers 1,2,3,4 and so on in the boxes to the left of the individual candidates' names in the order of your choice. You must put a number in every box if you mark your vote below the black line.

Do not duplicate or omit any numbers. For more information see How to complete the Senate ballot paper.

 

[JessicaTam]

Re: Abbott in Government

FYI, there is a complete list of all registered tickets for each party/group that provided one, for each state/territory. This is helpfully provided by the AEC as a set of downloadable CSV files: 2013 federal election downloads - Australian Electoral Commission.

I downloaded my state (NSW, of the 110 candidates), and got them into a spreadsheet and extracted various groups into separate sheets. When you sort by preference, you can see exactly how each party ticket assigns preferences. And I have to say, it was fascinating. Preference flows were not always what you might have predicted, and to my mind at least, not always rational. However, it seemed that other than putting their most hated party/group last for symbolic reasons, on many tickets significance probably stopped after about 40 places. It would be interesting to know how far down that ballot you actually get before the ballot gets "stuck" where the candidate is not excluded and the vote released.

There is also a hard copy of the senate above the line voting preferences available in every polling place. I referred to it and then voted above the line, as the preferences indicated satisfied my requirements.

A suggestion to change the senate voting method is to perhaps only allow preference flow on from parties that obtain more than 1% of the primary vote. Or allow more than just a '1' above the line.

As to the thread title: 'Abbott in Government', I will probably be prevented from getting married for the next three years.

You don't get me, Tony.

 

[JohnK]

Re: Abbott in Government

My goodness. Just when you thought it was safe to get out of the water.

The problem with the senate style of voting is where a person in Victoria polled around 1% of the primary vote looks like he will get a senate seat over a party that polled 10% all thanks to preferences. How is that fair?

I do not think it is fair.

Well, if the AEC would publish all the facts it can be different.

At a guess the majority of "Australians" would not be able to understand the preference system. It is not that simple.

 

[JohnK]

Time for a thread lock?

I was hoping for a total ban actually but cannot see that happening.

 

[drsmithy]

I was hoping for a total ban actually but cannot see that happening.

As has been noted earlier, no thing and no one forces you to read this thread if you're not interested.

 

[moa999]

Re: Abbott in Government

Not according to the AEC.

That is the instructions given and indeed all the call centre will tell you. But the 3 errors and 90% rule is contained in saving rules which are in place to stop informal votes when someone has made their intentions clear yet not totally got it correct (s129 if I recall)

 

[moa999]

Re: Abbott in Government

My goodness. Just when you thought it was safe to get out of the water.

I do not think it is fair.

At a guess the majority of "Australians" would not be able to understand the preference system. It is not that simple.

The AEC does publish the facts.... For NSW the PDF ran to about 150 pages - 45 groups at 2 pgs each plus some lodging up to 3 tickets.

 

[JohnK]

Re: Abbott in Government

The AEC does publish the facts.... For NSW the PDF ran to about 150 pages - 45 groups at 2 pgs each plus some lodging up to 3 tickets.

You are assuming that people have the time and the ability to understand. Most do not have either.

To the normal person they cannot possibly understand how the candidate who finishes 32nd out of 33 candidates ends up with a Senate seat as they ended up receiving votes via preference 3, preference 11, preference 38, preference 63 and so on from other candidates.

First thing they need to do is make it simple. Reduce the number of candidates to a realistic number. A dozen or so seems to work.

Oh and don't allow parties to magically preference all their votes. Use how to vote cards but everything has to be numbered just like the House of Representatives.

 

[JohnK]

As has been noted earlier, no thing and no one forces you to read this thread if you're not interested.

Thanks for reminding me.

 

[serfty]

Re: Abbott in Government

FYI, there is a complete list of all registered tickets for each party/group that provided one, for each state/territory. This is helpfully provided by the AEC as a set of downloadable CSV files: 2013 federal election downloads - Australian Electoral Commission.

I downloaded my state (NSW, of the 110 candidates), and got them into a spreadsheet and extracted various groups into separate sheets. When you sort by preference, you can see exactly how each party ticket assigns preferences. ...

Didn't need to do that, the ABC already provide it: Senate Group Voting Tickets - Australia Votes | Federal Election 2013 (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Not according to the

AEC.

• put the numbers 1,2,3,4 and so on in the boxes to the left of the individual candidates' names in the order of your choice. You must put a number in every box if you mark your vote below the black line.

Do not duplicate or omit any numbers. For more information see How to complete the Senate ballot paper.

See the link I already provided - the AEC are not providing the whole truth. I'll repeat the link here: http://www.politifact.com.au/truth-...oral-commission/Voters-own-preference-Senate/

 

[drron]

I don't know how many times I have to say this,Howard was not the biggest taxing PM in History.The revenue as a % of GDP gives a false impression if Government spending goes up more than revenue.
Commonwealth revenue in 2011/12 was higher than 2007/08 by more than inflation.Go check the budget papers.Problem was in the laqst 6 years spending went up by twice the amount of revenue-hence the structural deficit.

 

[drross]

I was hoping for a total ban actually but cannot see that happening.

Total ban makes alot of sense