Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

[Pukka]

If Australia does not get our Government in order in September everyone will have to pay much higher taxes in the future. It will be your turn soon enough so pay attention to the expenditure side of our Government.

Well as far as I'm concerned I pay way too much anyway.

Higher taxes don't work anyway it just leads to tax avoidance which is in nobody's interest.

Look at France 70% tax I think it was so suddenly Gerard Depardieu has a Russian passport and Mr Louis Vuitton is moving to Belgium. It's just the politics of envy and the people that earn the big bucks just go elsewhere which is in no ones interests.

Anyway it's irrelevant as Julia is on her bike, I do not see anyway that woman can win as long as Abbot is bound & gagged and locked in a room until he's elected

I'm pleased that as Hockey puts it the chosen one has chosen not to be chosen lol

 

[Moody]

Well as far as I'm concerned I pay way too much anyway.

Higher taxes don't work anyway it just leads to tax avoidance which is in nobody's interest.

Look at France 70% tax I think it was so suddenly Gerard Depardieu has a Russian passport and Mr Louis Vuitton is moving to Belgium. It's just the politics of envy and the people that earn the big bucks just go elsewhere which is in no ones interests.

Anyway it's irrelevant as Julia is on her bike, I do not see anyway that woman can win as long as Abbot is bound & gagged and locked in a room until he's elected

I'm pleased that as Hockey puts it the chosen one has chosen not to be chosen lol

Yeah, yeah - all the well-off pay too much tax .... in their opinion. If you want to pay no tax then there is a simple solution that doesn't involve dishonest accounting tricks, but I'm afraid it's not much fun.

Both personal and corporate tax rates have trended down in the last few decades under governments of both persuasions, and it's not as if the big players come close to paying their true share (I think I paid more tax than Google last year!). In fact our tax rate as a proportion of GDP (30%) is "better" than the UK (39%) and only slightly "worse" than the USA (27%). All things considered I know where I would prefer to live.


Anyway - Julia Gillard is now guaranteed to lead Labour to the next election, but whether they will get their schidt together enough to make a game of it is dubious. They would be better off negotiating as much legislation as they can in the next session and let the new lot defend any changes they subsequently make. One thing they shouldn't bother doing is revisiting media laws in Australia and I don't think it really matters. Anyone with half a brain (and I truly mean half) knows where the allegiance of News Limited lies, and at least they're not quite as dispicable here as they are in other locations. And if you are a avid viewer of Media Watch (as you all should be) it is obvious that bias and lazy journalism pervades all media.

That said, even the Press Council recognised that self-regulation of the media was a joke and something needed to be done. Pity was it was done clumsily and in a way that let the media barons cry "freedom of speech!" and get away with it. The whole sorded affair reflected badly on all parties.

 

[QF WP]

Bring on thus week in Federal politics. Go for the jugular Tony and don't let go

 

[Skyring]

Anyway - Julia Gillard is now guaranteed to lead Labour to the next election...

Oooh, that's now TWO people who think that!

 

[Hvr]

Bring on thus week in Federal politics. Go for the jugular Tony and don't let go

Given there is now a six week break until parliament sits again I doubt we'll see much of Tony until budget time. The election is now his to lose. Tony's fairly incompetent and he has been coasting on Labor mistakes but now is the time for him to start facing the public and fulfilling his role as the alternative prime minister.

He needs to offer his vision for Australia (if he has one) so the people can see what will happen from September 15.

 

[ComeFlyWithMe]

Given there is now a six week break until parliament sits again I doubt we'll see much of Tony until budget time. The election is now his to lose. Tony's fairly incompetent and he has been coasting on Labor mistakes but now is the time for him to start facing the public and fulfilling his role as the alternative prime minister.

He needs to offer his vision for Australia (if he has one) so the people can see what will happen from September 15.

As opposed to Gillard's vision, and high level of competence?

I find it interesting that lefties such as yourself seem to set a far higher standard for the opposition than that of your own party.

Luckily, even the party faithful don't support Gillard, so roll on the whitewash.

 

[Hvr]

As opposed to Gillard's vision, and high level of competence?

I find it interesting that lefties such as yourself seem to set a far higher standard for the opposition than that of your own party.

Luckily, even the party faithful don't support Gillard, so roll on the whitewash.

Actually just expecting the Liberals to achieve what they believe the Labor party should have. Maybe the current government's problem was that they didn't sell their message well enough? Or that they tried to do too much to compensate for Howard's failure to do any nation building in his last few years. Of course extricating the country from Howard's illegal and immoral war in Iraq hasn't helped.

And despite the Liberal doomsayers the country actually survived the GFC in great condition.

 

[Pushka]

Given there is now a six week break until parliament sits again I doubt we'll see much of Tony until budget time. The election is now his to lose. Tony's fairly incompetent and he has been coasting on Labor mistakes but now is the time for him to start facing the public and fulfilling his role as the alternative prime minister.

He needs to offer his vision for Australia (if he has one) so the people can see what will happen from September 15.

How can you say he is incompetent when he hasn't had the opportunity yet to be PM. It bugs the heck out of me that people can't see the role of Opposition Leader is completely different to that of PM.

I find it interesting that lefties such as yourself seem to set a far higher standard for the opposition than that of your own party.

Luckily, even the party faithful don't support Gillard, so roll on the whitewash.

I cannot understand how she has even one shred of support. Do they hate Rudd that much? As far as considering any loyalty to serving Australia, hell, that went out with the bath water months ago,

As far as selling the message goes - we "get" the message, and this Govt has spent millions of dollars trying to sell it. We "get" it - hey, there's a Labor success! But the message is wrong. The vision is wrong. The method is wrong.

We survived the GFC because Gillard and Co could throw the budget surplus around that Howard had accumulated. If there was another GFC tomorrow, we'd pretty much be screwed.

 

[Skyring]

I find it interesting that lefties such as yourself seem to set a far higher standard for the opposition than that of your own party.

It's not just people of one political aspect. It's a human trait. If we love something or someone so much that it is a passion, then we cannot bear to hear criticism of our beloved. Sports team, political parties, religions, computer brands - it's just the way that love works.

Though I think we may be getting into delusional territory here. By any measure Labor is in serious trouble and it's their own bloody fault. No one person to bear the whole load, but with Craig Thomson exemplifying the union movement, Eddie Obeid demonstrating community spirit, Kevin Rudd doing his bit for devotion, Swanny delivering results and Julia a model for competence, it's not a good look overall.

 

[Hvr]

So what is the Liberal party offering? And when will they tell us what they will do for Australia rather than how bad the Labor party is?

The Liberal party will win the election unless something incredibly dramatic happens and my point is that they will do nothing (literally) to ensure they don't lose the election.

 

[tgh]

So what is the Liberal party offering?

Surely you are not suggesting that they tell the truth.. look what is happening to Newman.
Truth is anathema in politics..

Of course the Libs will act as Janitors, they will clean up all the cough the lefties love to roll in.
People are not completely stupid.. (well enough of them anyway ) , they understand what needs to be done.
Flash plans and rabble rousing , divisive and even overtly sexist rhetoric, are the province of Labour.

 

[Hvr]

So what is the Liberal party offering?

Surely you are not suggesting that they tell the truth.. look what is happening to Newman.
Truth is anathema in politics..

Of course the Libs will act as Janitors, they will clean up all the cough the lefties love to roll in.
People are not completely stupid.. (well enough of them anyway ) , they understand what needs to be done.
Flash plans and rabble rousing , divisive and even overtly sexist rhetoric, are the province of Labour.

So what needs to be done? Lets be really explicit here because I reckon Abbott and co will spend the first term telling us about how bad Labor was. Sack thousands of public servants, rescind the mining tax (thanks for those donations chaps!) and tell us how good they are. But nothing for the good of the nation.

Surely the right wing must have a vision of their own for the country?

 

[eastwest101]

So what is the Liberal party offering? And when will they tell us what they will do for Australia rather than how bad the Labor party is?

Not being the ALP would be about it. But - seriously - its an election campaign - we may not see detailed and costed policies from oppositions until the budget numbers are published and the policies are rolled out at the last minute like every election campaign. Rightly or wrongly oppositions aren't really forthcoming with their plans, Rudd certainly wasn't in the 2007 election campaign except to say he was Howard lite and a pretty "cool guy".

The Liberal party will win the election unless something incredibly dramatic happens and my point is that they will do nothing (literally) to ensure they don't lose the election.

Correct - same as what I was thinking, the small target strategy is alive and well. Every incumbent government demands the opposition release their policies so that their treasury officials can be instructed to distort and provide scaremongering fodder for the government.

 

[amaroo]

It's not just people of one political aspect. It's a human trait. If we love something or someone so much that it is a passion, then we cannot bear to hear criticism of our beloved. Sports team, political parties, religions, computer brands - it's just the way that love works.

Though I think we may be getting into delusional territory here. By any measure Labor is in serious trouble and it's their own bloody fault. No one person to bear the whole load, but with Craig Thomson exemplifying the union movement, Eddie Obeid demonstrating community spirit, Kevin Rudd doing his bit for devotion, Swanny delivering results and Julia a model for competence, it's not a good look overall.

You forgot CONroy efforts for communication & proper process.....he also lifted the profile of the "red underpants on the head" society.

 

[11sjw]

So what needs to be done?

1. Payback/down our debt. It has to be done sooner or later so lets get on with doing that. Besides the opportunity costs associated with the interest payments will stifle any attempt to add to infrastructure.
2. Trash the Carbon tax. Not sure how easily this can be achieved as I've read there maybe a few timebombs in the legislation but going it alone in mediocre economic conditions (globally) was pig headed to begin with.

Lets be really explicit here because I reckon Abbott and co will spend the first term telling us about how bad Labor was. Sack thousands of public servants, rescind the mining tax (thanks for those donations chaps!) and tell us how good they are. But nothing for the good of the nation.

Surely the right wing must have a vision of their own for the country?

1. As he should because they were.
2. Perhaps the sackings will bring the public service to where it needs to be (not fact or my opinion here just throwing out the idea)
3. Given the mining tax is achieving SFA then it really won't be missed.
4. Was a future fund not good for our nation?

 

[tgh]

Surely the right wing must have a vision of their own for the country?

They surely have .. but it's boring s**t like living within our means and only spending what is available to spend...none of which is of any interest to labour

 

[BrentH]

I thought this was particularly interesting, given recent discussions about taxation here:

http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/po...se-own-wealth-study-finds-20130324-2go1l.html

 

[browski]

By "the masses" I guess you mean our fellow Australians, each and every one as lively, as individual, as clever and as delightful as yourself.

There's more to news than papers nowadays. SBS and especially the ABC are favorite news sources, and of course there are the online outlets, enjoying a huge increase in popularity.

And, of course, people have minds of their own. It's kind of demeaning to say that people think the same way as the paper they read. I certainly don't. Do you?

Skyring, do you ever tire of being proven wrong, or are you going for some kind of world record:

Rupert still riding high

 

[Pushka]

Just some very funny posts on this thread.

 

[eastwest101]

Skyring, do you ever tire of being proven wrong, or are you going for some kind of world record:

Rupert still riding high

An opinion column published by The Age and the SMH - part of the Fairfax group, a media company that is not owned by Murdoch, and then discussed on AFF thus partly supporting Skyrings argument!