Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

[medhead]

I know, let's tax all super at the marginal rate, watch the higher income earners flee to other post-tax investments (or other creative structures) thereby reducing any economy of scale enjoyed by those with lower balances. Worse off at the bottom end? Wait until the savings pool is decimated, then they'll be worse off.

An adroit suggestion with just 2 minor problems. 1) They are compulsory contributions and hence can't be diverted, and 2) no one is proposing to tax at the marginal tax rate. (yet)

 

[casanovawa]

Bloody hell! At $250K I must be Satan himself .... but I guess you knew that already.

Funny how the most bigoted and elitist whip out the old "class warfare" at the drop of a hat. They must just have the one synapsis I suppose?

Oh yes, i am so elitist and bigoted... Will i take the Jag out tonight or the Rolls??

Do a few bog laps around in front of the poor types...

Nah class warfare isn't my thing, but a bit of a decent return for a decent days work and rather than be envious of what everyone else has, have a crack at making the most of it yourself... There are plenty of people with more than me and many of them put it a lot more hard yards and deserve it... What i do have no one gifted it to me or gave me any leg ups so get a bit fed up with getting the pointy end all the time... And i don't begrudge the help for people who need it, but plenty of others are just looking for someone else to blame for their own lack of effort and sacrifice and vision...

 

[ComeFlyWithMe]

An adroit suggestion with just 2 minor problems. 1) They are compulsory contributions and hence can't be diverted, and 2) no one is proposing to tax at the marginal tax rate. (yet)

1) they are not compulsory for self-employed or company directors.
2) under the current regime, it is only a question of time. Lenin & Stalin would be proud of Juliar!

 

[ComeFlyWithMe]

Bloody hell! At $250K I must be Satan himself .... but I guess you knew that already.

Funny how the most bigoted and elitist whip out the old "class warfare" at the drop of a hat. They must just have the one synapsis I suppose?

Oh, you must work for the Labor Party of New South Wales! Explains a lot

 

[ComeFlyWithMe]

Oh yes, i am so elitist and bigoted... Will i take the Jag out tonight or the Rolls??

Do a few bog laps around in front of the poor types...

Nah class warfare isn't my thing, but a bit of a decent return for a decent days work and rather than be envious of what everyone else has, have a crack at making the most of it yourself... There are plenty of people with more than me and many of them put it a lot more hard yards and deserve it... What i do have no one gifted it to me or gave me any leg ups so get a bit fed up with getting the pointy end all the time... And i don't begrudge the help for people who need it, but plenty of others are just looking for someone else to blame for their own lack of effort and sacrifice and vision...

At the end of the day, there are those of us who think the world owes us something, and there are those who think we owe the world something. Luckily it appears we are both the latter

My legacy to my children will not be what I have taken, rather what I have given to society.

People on the lower end who pay no tax have no social buy-in. I advocate that all members of society with an income should pay tax, albeit at a much lower level. That way they feel responsible for shaping our society. It is important to have a safety net for those who are disadvantaged, however.

The beauty of these 'reforms' is they will screw the middle income earners in the typical Labor fashion. If you're on $100k+, watch out, you're super rich. Not sure about other places but in Sydney that doesn't get you much these days. Where the beauty comes in, is that these middle income earners make up the bulk of those who actually vote, so Labour's federal demise is therefore guaranteed.

 

[casanovawa]

I'm pretty sure i will be, by the end, a net contributor rather than a net taker which i will be happy with... I've been unemployed before and been on benefits, but i didn't see it as something to hang around on... Welfare should be a safety net, but more than a few see as a viable lifestyle option... And oh, if i can't get better income off of welfare I'll stay on it... No, that shouldn't be an option, you stay on it while you need it and when there is something to replace you get off it... You don't continue to milk it all as much as you can...

At the end of the day being poor sucks, i've been there (don't ever want to be there again) and we can talk all about all the ways to transfer wealth to the poor and disadvantage etc, schemes for trying to get some super savings, schemes for helping them meet costs of living etc but at the end of the day if your a low income earner life will always be tough and choices and options limited... And if doesn't get better, it only gets harder as you get older...

Probably the biggest advantage i had in life, apart from what some might call a kind of intelligence (Moods and others will probably disagree ) is parents that taught us some work ethic, taught the importance of vision, the importance of education and how to educate ourselves, how to not buy and spend on everything your eyes fall on, all this instant gratification... I think being a good role model and educator of your children can be your biggest contribution to society...

So while my friends were playing sports or on the video games or watching tv on the couch, i was working full time while going to uni at nights for 4-5 years (back before the internet and classes online) and meeting up with group members at the library on the weekend to do assignments and getting home from classes at 9.30-10pm... Not much fun, but I had the longer term view in mind rather than the immediate fun and enjoyment... So when i took the harder road to improve myself early on so that i can advance myself up a few rungs of the ladder and enjoy the benefits for the better part of my life i get a bit annoyed at people who see what i have done and achieved (and i am not within a bulls roar of being wealthy, just about to hit $100k) and think that i need to be taxed more, or load me up with levies for this and that, i'm paying for private health care while i pay the medicare levy as well etc, etc...

It annoys me slightly... I don't feature in "the working class" rhetoric of this government, even though in WA i heard someone say the other day that $100,000 is the average wage over here, and aren't all the costs of living going up to match it!!!!

 

[Moody]

I know plenty of intelligent people who are wedded to conservative politics, so I'm sure you ARE intelligent cas. The mistake is to associate intelligence with wisdom and humanity.

There will always be those that are net contributers to society and those that aren't. Obviously it would be good if everyone contributed something, but there is little point in taxing an individual with one hand and then giving them benefits with the other.

So at present I pay a fair wodge of tax and get SFA back from the government. I do make voluntary contributions to my Super and have an investment unit for the kids to use when they (hopefully) go to uni, so I guess you could say I get tax breaks from those. If the government said that negative gearing or super contributions were going to be "tweaked" for high income earners to pay (for example) to implement the core Gonski reforms then I would be all for it.

And whilst Australia has never truly been a classless society, we have never been further from it than we are now. Why? Because both sides of politics like to play the game when it benefits them and the silly merinos bleat on cue.

 

[Pushka]

I know plenty of intelligent people who are wedded to the Labor Party. Cuts both ways I guess.

 

[lovestotravel]

The typical ALP voter is either a well paid union member or a welfare recipient.

 

[Hvr]

The typical ALP voter is either a well paid union member or a welfare recipient.

I reckon that is a fairly poor generalisation.

 

[lovestotravel]

I reckon that is a fairly poor generalisation.

I don't

Labor is big on welfare for single mums etc, heck all the single mum groups loved Julia
Your typical union member is also a devout ALP voter

 

[Pushka]

I don't

Labor is big on welfare for single mums etc, heck all the single mum groups loved Julia
Your typical union member is also a devout ALP voter

Well, this is the thing. I think Gillard has actually betrayed some of her Labor principles in the way in which she has reduced payments to single mothers. She's all over the shop and lost her true Labor values.

 

[lovestotravel]

Well, this is the thing. I think Gillard has actually betrayed some of her Labor principles in the way in which she has reduced payments to single mothers. She's all over the shop and lost her true Labor values.

Exactly right, which is a reflection of why over the past few months opinion polls have moved to where they are now

Her "traditional core" of welfare recipients have had so many adjustments and changes and are basically worse off than before, that the typical ALP voter is turning away from Julia

 

[Pukka]

Re; new ALP taxes on super

There is a 60 year old champagne socialist that works for me who is going to be paying a lot of extra tax because of these changes. To say the toys are getting thrown out of the pram would be an understatement

I don't know why but I feel a certain smug satisfaction about the whole thing. Sorry for everyone else that's affected by it though. I wonder if he's still rusted on labour now

 

[Pukka]

Re ALP super changes

Another thing do these changes affect defined benefits schemes?

I'm guessing not

Surprise surprise it doesn't affect Wayne Swans super how very convenient

 

[lovestotravel]

If anyone who is affected by these super changes, and voted Labor, they deserve to be upset as they shouldn't have been voting Labor in the first place

 

[casanovawa]

Not just single mums and unionists, anyone who gets a handout tendsss to lean toward Labor thinking they will be more generous and the good times can go on forever... So uni sutdents, lower income migrants, indigenous, arty farty's, people on the dole... Quite a pool and the more they put on benefits the more they hope in the future that will do more leaning towards them... But at the end of the day you start running out of people to do the contributing when everyone is looking for some largesse... Again i know they are generalisations but you often need to indulge in at least some level of it because the world is too complex on many subject matters to do an exact head count poll... But people in these categories i would expect to lean more to Labor than Libs/Nats...

I think poor Julia has just been put through the rinse cycle so many times over the last few years she doesn't know what her values are anymore, if she had any to begin with... Plus her levels of desperation have become so high she'll do almost anything these days to cling to power... Not that it will help her...

 

[browski]

Not just single mums and unionists, anyone who gets a handout tendsss to lean toward Labor thinking they will be more generous and the good times can go on forever... So uni sutdents, lower income migrants, indigenous, arty farty's, people on the dole... Quite a pool and the more they put on benefits the more they hope in the future that will do more leaning towards them... But at the end of the day you start running out of people to do the contributing when everyone is looking for some largesse... Again i know they are generalisations but you often need to indulge in at least some level of it because the world is too complex on many subject matters to do an exact head count poll... But people in these categories i would expect to lean more to Labor than Libs/Nats...

I think poor Julia has just been put through the rinse cycle so many times over the last few years she doesn't know what her values are anymore, if she had any to begin with... Plus her levels of desperation have become so high she'll do almost anything these days to cling to power... Not that it will help her...

....and don't forget these mongrel freeloaders: Banks (bailouts); Car manufacturers (GM and Ford auto subsidies); anyone who serves in our military (heaps of free stuff); Farmers (subsidies); Olympians!. By your standards, they are coughs the lot of them.

 

[casanovawa]

....and don't forget these mongrel freeloaders: Banks (bailouts); Car manufacturers (GM and Ford auto subsidies); anyone who serves in our military (heaps of free stuff); Farmers (subsidies); Olympians!. By your standards, they are coughs the lot of them.

What are you carrying on about???

I would expect the farmers to lean towards the Nats more??? Although some have indulged in giving the rest of us a few independents of late which has been a cracking success... Military, much of a muchness i would have thought, industry policy, been pretty similar although it was Labor that started bringing down lots of the tariffs... Olympians, more than a few are over-hyped wannabes, at least from this last tilt...

And I can't see where i called anyone a b@stard... If your going to respond at least try and make it semi-coherent???

 

[Moody]

Not just single mums and unionists, anyone who gets a handout tendsss to lean toward Labor thinking they will be more generous and the good times can go on forever... So uni sutdents, lower income migrants, indigenous, arty farty's, people on the dole... Quite a pool and the more they put on benefits the more they hope in the future that will do more leaning towards them... But at the end of the day you start running out of people to do the contributing when everyone is looking for some largesse... Again i know they are generalisations but you often need to indulge in at least some level of it because the world is too complex on many subject matters to do an exact head count poll... But people in these categories i would expect to lean more to Labor than Libs/Nats...

I think poor Julia has just been put through the rinse cycle so many times over the last few years she doesn't know what her values are anymore, if she had any to begin with... Plus her levels of desperation have become so high she'll do almost anything these days to cling to power... Not that it will help her...

cas - you and your incoherent mate lovestosteal need to wake up and smell the coffee. John Howard exacerbated the middle-class welfare problems and locked in the increasingly unaffordable pension indexation. The current system is going to send us broke so we need more people to fund their own retirement. Those sitting on $1M+ super schemes certainly won't be a future burden, but those on the minimum wage and only SG contributions are only sustainable with compulsory euthanasia at 75.

I know it grates to divert money from the rich to the poor, but that is part of modern society. If you want to go back to living in a cave then don't let me stop you.