Platinum "anytime" lounge Access ceases from 1 February 2011

[kpc]

So Qantas has removed anytime access to reduce overcrowding (inter alia) yet there is now 25000 bonus points for joining the QP. Gee give incentives to join the QP, that'll help overcrowding

Special Holiday Offer from The Qantas Club

Absolutely outrageous. I honestly cannot believe how the h**l QF operates. This is utterly appalling.

The challenge we face is striking a balance between offering reasonable lounge access, whilst not overcrowding the lounges.

One issue we see is when Members use Qantas lounge facilities and then fly with competitors on the same day. This increases crowding for Members who are flying with us on the day and also gives our competitors a free kick.

I'm flabbergasted.

Red Roo has never bothered to justify situations like this, and I expect he / she will never do so becuase it CAN'T be justified:evil::evil::evil:

 

[medhead]

Red Roo has never bothered to justify situations like this, and I expect he / she will never do so becuase it CAN'T be justified:evil::evil::evil:

Must say I don't expect any justification from Red Roo or any others from management. They have their plan. It is just extremely disappointing that such blatant discrepancies are so obvious.

 

[ajw373]

Absolutely outrageous. I honestly cannot believe how the h**l QF operates. This is utterly appalling.



I'm flabbergasted.

I am flabbergasted at how much this has got peoples backs up. Whilst sure it is not an improvement it, on the surface does seem more than reasonable.

 

[straitman]

Whilst sure it is not an improvement it, on the surface does seem more than reasonable.

From where I am sitting it does not seem more than reasonable at all.

Would/could you explain your logic in making this statement :?:




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[froggerADL]

Absolutely outrageous. I honestly cannot believe how the h**l QF operates. This is utterly appalling.

I'm flabbergasted.

I actually thought this was quite a reasonable rethink by Qantas.

I have often taken advantage of anytime access in Hobart because DJ don't have a lounge there. I've even used that lounge when getting off a Vigin flight, with guest.

With the new rules I will only have access if I arrive or depart on a QF flight. Seems good and reasonable to me. I now have a significant incentive to actually fly QF. I think that's what QF want.

I know the Hobart thing is a bit cheeky, but my tally for 2010 is QF/OW 113 flights, DJ 16.

The thing I'll miss the most is J check-in for PS. I'm unlikely to be flying anywhere near as much after June 2011. But by the time I drop down to PS I will have got to LTS. I really value the international J check-in (First is even better, but I can live with J). So this is the removal of a significant benefit for me, for the rest of my life. Poor me .

Of course, I now have a bigger incentive to strive for Gold. Damn you Qantas.I'm under your spell!

 

[Flashback]

I actually thought this was quite a reasonable rethink by Qantas.

I have often taken advantage of anytime access in Hobart because DJ don't have a lounge there. I've even used that lounge when getting off a Vigin flight, with guest.

With the new rules I will only have access if I arrive or depart on a QF flight. Seems good and reasonable to me. I now have a significant incentive to actually fly QF. I think that's what QF want.

I know the Hobart thing is a bit cheeky, but my tally for 2010 is QF/OW 113 flights, DJ 16.

The thing I'll miss the most is J check-in for PS. I'm unlikely to be flying anywhere near as much after June 2011. But by the time I drop down to PS I will have got to LTS. I really value the international J check-in (First is even better, but I can live with J). So this is the removal of a significant benefit for me, for the rest of my life. Poor me .

You still get J checkin for international flights.

 

[oz_mark]

Red Roo has never bothered to justify situations like this, and I expect he / she will never do so becuase it CAN'T be justified:evil::evil::evil:

Qantas made their decision, they refined it (adding back arrival access) and they have, through Red Roo, made a comment that the use of the club then flying someone else was part of their thinking. I doubt that there is anything that Red Roo could say that is going to help.

 

[kpc]

Qantas made their decision, they refined it (adding back arrival access) and they have, through Red Roo, made a comment that the use of the club then flying someone else was part of their thinking. I doubt that there is anything that Red Roo could say that is going to help.

I guess he/she should then stop asking for feedback as to what we as QF plat flyers (me anyway) want:shock:

 

[ajw373]

From where I am sitting it does not seem more than reasonable at all.

Would/could you explain your logic in making this statement :?:


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Name one business that provides access to their facilities when the customer is choosing to frequent another business? For example does David Jones let customers of Myer user their change rooms? Where is the difference? So why should Qantas let people (even if they have been loyal customers) use the facilities when they are, for example flying Virgin Blue, or to a lesser extent when they are not flying at all? Though in the latter case I can see the point.

 

[ajw373]

You still get J checkin for international flights.

And a card and bag tags for new gen check-in for domestic, just like other FF'ers.

 

[straitman]

Name one business that provides access to their facilities when the customer is choosing to frequent another business? For example does David Jones let customers of Myer user their change rooms? Where is the difference?

Easy.

I try on the trousers in DJs, work out what I want then go and buy them in Myer.

Not really a valid comparison IMHO :!:

I


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[trippin_the_rift]

Easy.

I try on the trousers in DJs, work out what I want then go and buy them in Myer.

Not really a valid comparison IMHO :!:

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... And in this example, DJ's is happy for you to use the changerooms because you consistently spend 20k+ each year with them. The day you stop spending with them is the day you can no longer use those changerooms ... and that is a fair deal.


I've said it once and I'll say it again. Redroo is here to suck every last 'trick in the book' out of us -- some of the savviest frequent flyers in the country. He is not here to listen to feedback or actually absorb the goldmine of information some members so freely give out. Wake up people!!!! :slap:

 

[kpc]

... And in this example, DJ's is happy for you to use the changerooms because you consistently spend 20k+ each year with them. The day you stop spending with them is the day you can no longer use those changerooms ... and that is a fair deal.


I've said it once and I'll say it again. Redroo is here to suck every last 'trick in the book' out of us -- some of the savviest frequent flyers in the country. He is not here to listen to feedback or actually absorb the goldmine of information some members so freely give out. Wake up people!!!! :slap:

I have to agree with this....

 

[medhead]

Name one business that provides access to their facilities when the customer is choosing to frequent another business? For example does David Jones let customers of Myer user their change rooms? Where is the difference? So why should Qantas let people (even if they have been loyal customers) use the facilities when they are, for example flying Virgin Blue, or to a lesser extent when they are not flying at all? Though in the latter case I can see the point.

Except DJs don't provide facilities to encourage loyalty, so that is a pretty poor analogy. They do have a loyalty program of course. I think what you are missing is that a platinum flyer does a heap of flying with Qantas. Now qantas can try to get that loyalty with the carrot, i.e. anytime lounge access; or the stick, as we have now that says screw the 100 flights you purchased off us in the last 12 months we're going to burn you if you fly with anyone else and we don't care if you need to go somewhere that qantas doesn't fly.

I've certainly put out the numbers earlier in this thread and I'll try to give a brief recap now. I've been flying twice a week for the last 11 months. Up until this change was announced that was mostly with Qantas, in fact I had about 6 or 7 flights with other airlines mainly for schedule reasons or because my work picked the cheapest flight for me. The fact that qantas provided the carrot meant that when I need to buy an airfare I looked at the qantas website and booked from there. Remove anytime access and that has all changed, Qantas wants to burn me because on the odd occasion I need to fly elsewhere (often because of qantas' inability to meet my needs), well I'll just burn Qantas back. I take a heap of flights, why should I do any more then the bare minimum to get gold or platinum; when qantas is telling me that they don't value my business that much. Especially as I have enough spare flights that I can most probably maintain gold with DJ as well. I was looking to push for partner gold this year - but qantas has clearly told me that I'm better off giving business to their competition if I want all of my flying to be as comfortable as possible. Qantas is saying that I'm not their first choice passenger (I can't change that because sometimes work will buy my flights on other airlines) because they don't want to look after me anymore, hence Qantas clearly doesn't want to be my first choice airline anymore. All stick and no carrot is only going to push passengers away.

... And in this example, DJ's is happy for you to use the changerooms because you consistently spend 20k+ each year with them. The day you stop spending with them is the day you can no longer use those changerooms ... and that is a fair deal.

Removal of anytime access is the equivalent of DJ saying that we want to force you to stop spending that extra $500 with myer and bring it to DJ so that we get $20.5K each year. My responds is to say well ok then I'll spend $10K at each and get to use the change rooms at both.

 

[ajw373]

All extremely selfish replies, and not one has answered the basic question as to what other business (or airline for that matter) allows people who are customers of their competitors to use their facilities just because that customer has been a good customer in the past.

Qantas to me provides first rate facilities (better than most I have experienced elsewhere) on very reasonable and fair terms and conditions. Fair to me is to use them when I fly them or their business partners. I don't expect or see it as a RIGHT as some do to use their facilities if I am not providing them with my custom.

 

[kpc]

All extremely selfish replies.....

I don't think there is any further point in trying to discuss the issue(s) with you with an attitude like that

 

[medhead]

All extremely selfish replies, and not one has answered the basic question as to what other business (or airline for that matter) allows people who are customers of their competitors to use their facilities just because that customer has been a good customer in the past.

Qantas to me provides first rate facilities (better than most I have experienced elsewhere) on very reasonable and fair terms and conditions. Fair to me is to use them when I fly them or their business partners. I don't expect or see it as a RIGHT as some do to use their facilities if I am not providing them with my custom.

How about trying to understand what people are telling you. I also don't see it as a RIGHT. The FACT is that Qantas says that I get certain benefits if I fly X amount with them. I've done the fly hence I am allow to access the benefits. Or are you saying I'm selfish because I expect to get access to benefits that I have paid to have?

You're also missing a massive point, this is not about being a good customer in the past - it is about retaining good customers in the future, encouraging loyalty. This is about what is going to make people be loyal to qantas, what is going to make Qantas BETTER than other airlines - not the same as other airlines. (there is an answer to your "basic" question, which just happens to miss the point entirely)

Finally am I selfish, or am I looking after my own best interests. Looking after myself went I fly. I want to be comfortable when I fly, I want to use a lounge when I fly. It used to be that I got that from Qantas, now I don't. Qantas doesn't fly to Ceduna or the gold coast do they? If qantas doesn't value all the flying that I do with them and don't want to continue to get all that flying because sometimes I might need to go somewhere that qantas doesn't fly - then I would have to be stupid to not get lounge access elsewhere if I can get it. That is not selfish. You might feel smugly superior because you continue to let qantas walk all over you, but sorry that is not selfless it is just plan stupid.

edit:
Actually thinking about it more, you basic question is based on a false premise. Qantas has said if you buy 1400SC of flights then we will give you platinum status with these benefits. While anytime access remains then using that access is using qantas' facilities as a customer of qantas - anytime access is granted on the basis of what you buy from qantas - not as a customer of another airline.

 

[JohnK]

Personally I feel a lot of people have totally missed the point.

Anytime lounge access was a nice little bonus, reward if you like, for doing all those discount economy flights to get to Platinum. It is a reasonable benefit and a totally unreasonable and unjustified reason for QF to remove it. So what if the Platinum comes down to the lounge on a Saturday to have a couple of drinks and watch planes take off and land.

So with the soon to be enhancements Qantas has taken away a benefit some people use and left behind some benefits hardly anyone uses or cares about.

Why not leave anytime lounge access as a benefit and allow people to choose? Pesonally I would rather have anytime lounge access to any QF lounge than have access to First Class lounges, or even guaranteed economy ticket purchase.

 

[dfcatch]

All extremely selfish replies, and not one has answered the basic question as to what other business (or airline for that matter) allows people who are customers of their competitors to use their facilities just because that customer has been a good customer in the past.

Qantas to me provides first rate facilities (better than most I have experienced elsewhere) on very reasonable and fair terms and conditions. Fair to me is to use them when I fly them or their business partners. I don't expect or see it as a RIGHT as some do to use their facilities if I am not providing them with my custom.

Why should they?

Because it was a published benefit that they offered and provided as a reward to premium customers that had given enough business to Qantas to qualify for Platinum status;

Because Qantas offered it as a premium benefit to Platinum over the benefits given to Gold;

Because Qantas don't fly everywhere and according to the Platinum benefits handbook - "Qantas recognizes that sometimes circumstances mean that you need to fly another airline";

Because Qantas want to offer me (as a Premium customer) a benefit which is not offered elsewhere so that I am appreciative of the acknowledgement from Qantas of my patronage, and as a result I will happily continue to direct business their way;

Because I have spent money and BIS time to earn the published benefits, and if the benefits are going to be changed, then I expect some other benefit in return. Otherwise I could very well no longer feel that my premium business (ie. 1400sc per year or more) is sufficiently rewarded or acknowledged and I then take my business elsewhere.

This is the point of a loyalty program!

No-one here is asking for something for nothing. Qantas are asking for loyalty, and offering a loyalty program in return, in order to maintain business patronage.

If Qantas decide to devalue the benefits of the loyalty program, then in the absence of replacement benefits (adequate enhancements), then they should expect devalued loyalty from customers in return.

Customer loyalty and program benefits are directly correlated.

Loyalty Programs 101.

 

[Danger]

I am flabbergasted at how much this has got peoples backs up. Whilst sure it is not an improvement it, on the surface does seem more than reasonable.

ajw373, my flabbergasted comment related to Qantas's apparent hypocrisy in citing lounge overcrowing as a reason for removing anytime access, then offering incentives for people to join, such as the 25000 points that was announced a couple of pages ago. I think there was also a promotion a couple of months back where there were was a significant discount on joining. That's hypocrisy and that's what flabbergasted me.

I actually thought this was quite a reasonable rethink by Qantas.

I have often taken advantage of anytime access in Hobart because DJ don't have a lounge there. I've even used that lounge when getting off a Vigin flight, with guest.

With the new rules I will only have access if I arrive or depart on a QF flight. Seems good and reasonable to me. I now have a significant incentive to actually fly QF. I think that's what QF want.

froggerADL, we'll respectively disagree on this. I would note, however, that one of the biggest disappointments for Platinum members about the removal of anytime is the significant differential it provided between Gold and Platinum.

Qantas made their decision, they refined it (adding back arrival access) and they have, through Red Roo, made a comment that the use of the club then flying someone else was part of their thinking. I doubt that there is anything that Red Roo could say that is going to help.

My belief now is that the 'concession' of arrivals access was never intended to be a compromise by Qantas but was, in fact, an omission from their first email. That is, arrivals access was always intended to be announced as part of the removal of anytime access but it somehow escaped the proofreaders of the final email. I mean no disrespect to Red Roo but I suspect the "we've listened" is not the case at all.

Name one business that provides access to their facilities when the customer is choosing to frequent another business? For example does David Jones let customers of Myer user their change rooms? Where is the difference? So why should Qantas let people (even if they have been loyal customers) use the facilities when they are, for example flying Virgin Blue, or to a lesser extent when they are not flying at all? Though in the latter case I can see the point.

All extremely selfish replies, and not one has answered the basic question as to what other business (or airline for that matter) allows people who are customers of their competitors to use their facilities just because that customer has been a good customer in the past.

ajw373, I'll give a perfect example of what I believe you're chasing: lounge access. For example, Qantas and Cathay both fly MEL-HKG and both have lounges at MEL. How many top tier QF frequent flyers who have chosen to fly CX would choose the CX lounge at MEL over the QF First Lounge? This is a fair comparison, I believe. By your thinking, QF should say to those CX passengers, 'nope, sorry, you've chosen to use our competitor over us so go use their lounge'. And the same applies in HKG. CX doesn't tell QF passengers to bugger off and use the QF lounge when their flying QF down to Australia, rather than HKG. Same example.

Similarly, QF allows points earning in their frequent flyer program when QF customers fly QF competitors. There are multiple examples of routes where both QF and another carrier exist but the earning rate is the same. These, to me, are the perfect examples to answer your question as to what other business allows people who are customers of their competitors to use their facilities just because that customer has been a good customer in the past.

There are other examples, too. Like, say, a Virgin Blue or Jetstar branded credit card that allows the owner to earn points when using their card to purchase fares on Timbuckto Airlines etc. Even in your example of David Jones, the David Jones card can still be used at Myer to earn points towards spending at David Jones. And Myer is a direct competitor.

Excellent points in your post (779) above, dfcatch.