Predictions of when international flights may resume/bans lifted

[mviy]

Yes that's true, but for example there have been medevac flights for people caught in natural disasters or terrorism - the Aceh Tsunami and the Bali bombings being two that spring to mind.

A big difference though is that their injuries were not contagious.

Post automatically merged: May 17, 2021

They need a scare tactic to get a lot of the population to pull there finger out. Once elected October/November, Scomo leaves it to Feb 2022, then gives a deadline of 30/6/2022 then borders open for all vaccinated in and out, with no quarantine (unless maybe known red zones).

That scenario would sound good to me (though I hope some travel bubbles e.g. UK, could be in place earlier).

 

[Seat0B]

Meanwhile, several major media websites are leading with the story that one person who arrived from the India into hotel quarantine has tested positive. Oh my goodness, the sky is falling. (you'll have to take my word for it, I am not going to condone such coverage by adding links).

Isn't the whole point of quarantine is that there's a high likelihood that a small number of arriving travellers may have the virus? And that pre-flight testing aims to reduce the risk rather than eliminate altogether?

Good old clickbait journalism!

Well yes, our risk (in)tolerance is getting ridiculous here!

And actually isn't the whole point of quarantine that sick people or potentially sick people are isolated to avoid infecting the rest, so the insistence on only taking people without COVID into quarantine is somewhat at odds with the purpose of quarantine to my way of thinking.

 

[Seat0B]

A big difference though is that their injuries were not contagious.

Yes, and accordingly they were taken straight to hospital and did not have to quarantine. Quarantine is supposed to be the barrier that prevents the contagion leaking into the community. And as one expert I saw on TV has remarked (sorry cannot now recall who it was), the issue with people with COVID in India is more a moral and ethical one than an outright medical one.

This article covers similar points

Australia ‘morally obliged’ to help repatriate citizens caught in India’s Covid crisis

A Sydney cardiologist who has had two relatives die of coronavirus in India is urging Scott Morrison to set up a separate quarantine facility for arrivals from that country to allow for mass repatriation

www.theguardian.com

And this one quotes Prof Catherine Bennett saying it is a moral obligation and more like a medevac (as I have said in several posts upthread) than a border control issue. People keep saying that we have never done medevacs like this before, which I think is only partially true, but even if true, we have done a lot of things in the past 12 months that we have never done before, so why not this? They are our citizens and they need our help. They are our "problem" and we should not be duck-shoving that onto India, which is clearly stretched to breaking point.

Call for medevac-style repatriation flights for Australians with Covid from India

Plight of vulnerable Australians not a border issue but a health emergency, medical expert says

www.theguardian.com

 

[JB expat]

Well yes, our risk (in)tolerance is getting ridiculous here!

And actually isn't the whole point of quarantine that sick people or potentially sick people are isolated to avoid infecting the rest, so the insistence on only taking people without COVID into quarantine is somewhat at odds with the purpose of quarantine to my way of thinking.

except that they could infect the flight attendants and other passengers etc. so I do see a slight difference - but I agree that overall the objective of a hotel quarantine system is to deal with the risk that an infected person may be on the flight but previously tested negative prior to flight

I do hope that all the people involved from start to finish (flight attendants etc) are fully vaccinated!

 

[serfty]

Isn't the whole point of quarantine is that there's a high likelihood that a small number of arriving travellers may have the virus? And that pre-flight testing aims to reduce the risk rather than eliminate altogether?

I guess it would have been bigger news if they hadn't stopped 40 who tested positive pre flight from travelling on it as well.

 

[Seat0B]

except that they could infect the flight attendants and other passengers etc. so I do see a slight difference - but I agree that overall the objective of a hotel quarantine system is to deal with the risk that an infected person may be on the flight but previously tested negative prior to flight

I do hope that all the people involved from start to finish (flight attendants etc) are fully vaccinated!

Yes, as I said up thread at post #6661, I don;t expect that people with COVID should be on the regular flights. I suggested that they should be placed on designated medevac flights, perhaps as a good nuclear biological chemical (NBC) training opportunity for the RAAF. Obviously they should be separated from regular passengers without COVID, but I do not agree that just abandoning them to survive as they can in India is appropriate.

Media reports today (ABC News Radio) of Australians who travelled from other parts of India for their flights, self-isolated in their hotels, got refused on the flight (may or may not actually have COVID, given the state of the labs doing the testing) and have now been evicted from their hotel because they have COVID. We need to show some compassion and bring our citizens home. Surely we have the systems to cope with even a moderate number of cases in quarantine and in hospital if needed by now - and if we do not have that capability, then we should all be asking some very hard questions about why.

 

[mrs.dr.ron]

"An exclusive Newspoll conducted for The Australian shows 73 per cent of voters support the Morrison government’s approach and believe the international borders should remain closed until at least the middle of next year."

NoCookies | The Australian

www.theaustralian.com.au

I wish Newspoll would do a poll of AFF members, I bet the result would be much better !

 

[Seat0B]

"An exclusive Newspoll conducted for The Australian shows 73 per cent of voters support the Morrison government’s approach and believe the international borders should remain closed until at least the middle of next year."

NoCookies | The Australian

www.theaustralian.com.au

I wish Newspoll would do a poll of AFF members, I bet the result would be much better !

We really need to start up a letter writing/emailing campaign so that the pollies know that there are a lot of people wanting a family reunion, not just people "crying into their cornflakes because they can't go to Aspen" as Samantha Maiden said yesterday on ABC Insiders. We really need to get more media aware of and reporting on this pressing issue.

Call out for @AFF Editor - do you have any contacts that we could use here?

 

[dajop]

Couple of articles in the Nine newspapers today. But of course they appeal more to the “latte sipping” set in the inner city, whose opinions are not important.

Why many of us feel trapped inside Australia

Australians with family or loved ones overseas are alarmed about the personal toll of being shut off from the world.

www.theage.com.au

‘I no longer feel like Australia is my home’: The people quitting our shores

The federal budget predicts the loss of 174,000 people by mid next year as a result of Australia travel bans.

www.smh.com.au

 

[ayushamity]

Commonwealth supports restriction exemption for fully vaccinated Australians: Greg Hunt

State Restrictions ? How about international travel ?

 

[oznflfan]

"An exclusive Newspoll conducted for The Australian shows 73 per cent of voters support the Morrison government’s approach and believe the international borders should remain closed until at least the middle of next year."

NoCookies | The Australian

www.theaustralian.com.au

I wish Newspoll would do a poll of AFF members, I bet the result would be much better !

It's all in the wording, 'do you support Scomo's border closure now to protect Australians'. Of course most do, and so do I. Little in way of vaccination (although had my first Pfizer 4 hours ago - maybe 6 months quicker than planned) and COVID all around the world.

They need to ask different question, something like 'do you support international borders opening sometime in 2022 for incoming and outgoing fully vaccinated travellers'. I reckon even now you would get same 73% yes.

 

[burmans]

Just to resume some normalcy in the news

Millions must get COVID jab before borders can open, NSW Premier says

5 million people in NSW. That will take like 2 years at this rate

I think this comment is kind of ignoring the fact that Gladys has been consistently pushing for higher vaccination rates and has put in plans to achieve it. At least she has a view on a target to open up as opposed to those who say we might not open even with vaccination.

 

[Pom-DownUnder]

"An exclusive Newspoll conducted for The Australian shows 73 per cent of voters support the Morrison government’s approach and believe the international borders should remain closed until at least the middle of next year."

NoCookies | The Australian

www.theaustralian.com.au

I wish Newspoll would do a poll of AFF members, I bet the result would be much better !

hmmmm so i can just random 4 phone numbers and find 3 people i can abuse over the phone for being selfish muppets? not bad

 

[burmans]

"An exclusive Newspoll conducted for The Australian shows 73 per cent of voters support the Morrison government’s approach and believe the international borders should remain closed until at least the middle of next year."

NoCookies | The Australian

www.theaustralian.com.au

I wish Newspoll would do a poll of AFF members, I bet the result would be much better !

The problem I have with this is that context is everything and it’s a well known psychological phenomenon that people overemphasis the current context in assuming what is currently occurring will continue to occur. But if you’d asked the same question 15 months ago you’d get a totally different answer and it’s highly likely by mid 2022 we’ll feel very differently again. COVID has shown we shouldn’t assume things won’t change but that’s what we do anyway.

At the moment we have limited countries with high vaccination rates with a clear path to vaccinated normality but looking at Europe in general they are close to 30 percent vaccinated, i.e. well ahead of us. It’s patently obvious to me that over a fairly short time we will start to get plenty of reports out of Europe of high vaccination rates, dropping case/death rates followed quickly by opening of borders. I think then public opinion will change and change quickly. Sure we will continue to get stories of disaster zones but in general Australians don’t want to travel there anyway.

What has been said before but I’ll repeat again is that what we are lacking amongst our politicians generally (with a few obvious exceptions) is that forward looking view and if our politicians don’t have and espouse a clear view for the future then many of the general public won’t have it either. But equally we have seen many examples where businesses etc. and others show that leadership so lacking in our politicians, and we are starting to see that already.

 

[antycbr]

But equally we have seen many examples where businesses etc. and others show that leadership so lacking in our politicians, and we are starting to see that already.

And seeing those business leaders getting crucified by the Prime Minister no less - see Jayne Hrdlicka's comments this evening.

“It will make us sick but won’t put us into hospital. Some people may die but it will be way smaller than the flu." - this is the bit that the media ran with - emphasis added.

A more balanced quote:
“We’re forgetting the fact we have learnt to live with lots of viruses and challenges over the years and the government has to learn to live with this and sooner than June 2022.”

 

[dajop]

hmmmm so i can just random 4 phone numbers and find 3 people i can abuse over the phone for being selfish muppets? not bad

And I’m sure those 3 people would argue that you’re being selfish if you see it any other way. Especially as they are going on what the read/see/hear in the media, given how the media like to make everything more dramatic than it really is (as that’s where their commercial interest is).

 

[burmans]

And seeing those business leaders getting crucified by the Prime Minister no less - see Jayne Hrdlicka's comments this evening.

“It will make us sick but won’t put us into hospital. Some people may die but it will be way smaller than the flu." - this is the bit that the media ran with - emphasis added.

A more balanced quote:
“We’re forgetting the fact we have learnt to live with lots of viruses and challenges over the years and the government has to learn to live with this and sooner than June 2022.”

Well I must admit that the optics were very poor in this example, as soon as I read those words I knew she would be crucified even if I agree with much of what she said. But there will be others where the reasons aren’t perceived as quite so self interested.

 

[antycbr]

Well I must admit that the optics were very poor in this example, as soon as I read those words I knew she would be crucified even if I agree with much of what she said. But there will be others where the reasons aren’t perceived as quite so self interested.

The irony is that VA probably benefit more from the captive Australian leisure market, compared to QF with the international operations gone. VA can’t even get across the Tasman… in effect it would be better for VA to keep the borders closed…

 

[mviy]

The irony is that VA probably benefit more from the captive Australian leisure market, compared to QF with the international operations gone. VA can’t even get across the Tasman… in effect it would be better for VA to keep the borders closed…

Well the borders need to reopen eventually so they should be focused on how to improve the profitability over the long term rather than any possible short term benefit from borders being closed.

 

[dajop]

The irony is that VA probably benefit more from the captive Australian leisure market, compared to QF with the international operations gone. VA can’t even get across the Tasman… in effect it would be better for VA to keep the borders closed…

If they want to drive value via Velocity, they need international partners (which they still have) and the opportunity to use those international partners.