Predictions of when international flights may resume/bans lifted

[Seat0B]

I wonder if Gladys would be prepared to put up some sort of countdown clock to the 5 million vaccination target for NSW on the outside of Parliament House in Macquarie Street in Sydney?

I wonder if Gladys would be willing to run for PM!

 

[mviy]

The govt cant reasonably introduce restrictions on or deny service to unvacinated Aussies at this stage of the rollout because getting vaccinated isnt even an option yet for most.

Well currently if they wanted to do something they would need to only apply restrictions on unvaccinated Aussies if they are over a certain age. Like people are checked at a bar to ensure they are 18, it wouldn't be impossible to check someone's age and then if they have been vaccinated.

 

[Lynda2475]

Well currently if they wanted to do something they would need to only apply restrictions on unvaccinated Aussies if they are over a certain age. Like people are checked at a bar to ensure they are 18, it wouldn't be impossible to check someone's age and then if they have been vaccinated.

Well they generally only check ID at licensed premises. As surprising as it may be to some, not everyone cares about going out for a drink.

It is still too early for a stick even for over 50s, because except for frontline workers who got Pfizer, most of those who got AZ still wont be fully vaccinated for a month or two given the 12 week gap between doses.

 

[hb13]

To be totally blunt:
- how many people have died from covid19 in the UK in the past 6 months?
- how many people have died from covid19 in the US in the past 6 months?
- how many people have died from covid19 in Europe in the past 6 months?

Then, how many people have died from covid19 in Australia in the past 6 months?

There's your clear and relevant incentive!

In your opinion things may be an utter shambles, or totally mucked up. I believe otherwise. And having travelled to all of the states and territories except Tassie in the past six months, had plenty of family occasions and been able to play my favourite sports over the summer, I'm content with that belief. Sure, going on a planned overseas holiday last year would have been great and I'll be getting whichever vaccination is offered when it's my turn; no rush.

I also believe the glass is half full. YMMV.

What's your point? Are you agreeing or disagreeing with me about incentives?

If you actually believe the rollout is not a shambles, then I'm sorry but you have no idea what you're talking about. Anyone who is in the know and is not the government would tell you as much. I mean, just look at the target for vaccinations and where it actually sits now. It's fairly simple.

 

[roogirl]

All of that is clear to me and pretty much all of us here in the UK and the EU. I have been trying to get the jab and thankfully got my first dose last week. However, the fact that people in Australia don't want to get it is one of the main reasons the rollout is an utter shambles.

Messaging here in the UK is literally 24/7 and sometimes I'm surprised because I look around and I think "is all of this needed? everyone here is desperate for the vaccine" - but that is the difference between here or the US and Australia. The government in Australia has totally mucked this up.

Vaccines are not easy and not fun (I for one have a huge phobia of needles), which is why people need an incentive. That incentive needs to be clear and relevant. Then that message needs to be repeated daily and via all forms of media, social media and any other forms of communication possible.

Remember the U.K. I believe has one of the highest rates of compliance in the world with public health messaging, even pre covid. We largely do what we’re told - linked to the deification of the NHS. It was always going to be easier to vaxx everyone in the U.K. than australia, even without the fortress australia problem - see how the AZ uptake has continued in the U.K. despite all the scare mongering.

 

[oznflfan]

Travel is one aspect of it. But then they need to add more. Not wearing masks, attending the theatre, sitting in the pokies room... we need to follow the Israelis to ensure vaccination provides positive benefits

Being a stupid here, but:

Mask's permanently compulsory outside the home for non vaccinated. $1,000 fine if caught. That alone would motivate a million people. Hate masks with a passion. Lucky enough to only ever worn one twice, flying Qantas return to Perth a few months ago.

Only thing (if vaccinated) is police walking up to you and demanding ''papers''.

 

[ethernet]

In the news: Queensland hospitals FULL. No beds, No ICU and ramping.
The FOCUS is on fully vaccinated PAX getting a vaccine passport, and if not OR presented to justify restrictions to green countries, even if this is variable, and hotspots break assumptions. Nope, Cwth policy is pandering to State govts with unrealistic expectations.

In good news, I get my cattle shot this week , so I presume GP's have just been given NEW supply's of AZ have come online. Anyone hear of delivery good news?

In BAD news, Japan has decided oldies - older than boomers, must use new fangled online to book appointments, so setting up education points. Never mind those who are blind, amputees, dementia, parkinsons, paralyzed, brain injury compromised. a big usability FAIL.

 

[drron]

What's your point? Are you agreeing or disagreeing with me about incentives?

If you actually believe the rollout is not a shambles, then I'm sorry but you have no idea what you're talking about. Anyone who is in the know and is not the government would tell you as much. I mean, just look at the target for vaccinations and where it actually sits now. It's fairly simple.

I'm not in the Government but I don't agree with your analysis.Pfizer and AZ first not delivering contracted numbers of vaccines and then the clotting problem with AZ are the basic reasons for the slow roll out.Certainly getting those doses out could have been a bit quicker probably by letting GPs deliver more of the doses.
Then you have the press exacerbating anything that happens especially regarding the
Clot incidence.Even today was another case that is obviously not due to the vaccine but the press are having a new attack.

The retrospectoscope though is an ideal instrument for those who love to complain.

Post automatically merged: May 18, 2021

In the news: Queensland hospitals FULL. No beds, No ICU and ramping.
The FOCUS is on fully vaccinated PAX getting a vaccine passport, and if not OR presented to justify restrictions to green countries, even if this is variable, and hotspots break assumptions. Nope, Cwth policy is pandering to State govts with unrealistic expectations.

In good news, I get my cattle shot this week , so I presume GP's have just been given NEW supply's of AZ have come online. Anyone hear of delivery good news?

Same in Tasmania and WA.I suspect also the other States are the same.

 

[hb13]

I'm not in the Government but I don't agree with your analysis.Pfizer and AZ first not delivering contracted numbers of vaccines and then the clotting problem with AZ are the basic reasons for the slow roll out.Certainly getting those doses out could have been a bit quicker probably by letting GPs deliver more of the doses.
Then you have the press exacerbating anything that happens especially regarding the
Clot incidence.Even today was another case that is obviously not due to the vaccine but the press are having a new attack.

So with anything of this scale, things can and do go wrong, like the blood clot issues for example - yet the government put all their faith in just two vaccines. They realised they made a mistake by not ordering at least one or two more, and that is why they now got the deal done with Moderna. Also, they had to order an extra 20 million Pfizer, which is only coming at the end of this year. It is a job for a government to plan and have redundancies in place.

Secondly, what happened to the CSL facility that was supposed to produce 1 million vaccines per week from the end of March? Just on those supplies alone you would have had 6 million doses now, and we have only given out half of that number with all vaccines at present.

Finally - what about the messaging. What messaging has been there for people to get the jab? What incentive is there? You think saying "even when the whole population is vaccinated, borders will stay closed" - that's good messaging?

How do you assess that the government is not at fault? You seriously give them a pass on the roll-out?

 

[drron]

Except they actually ordered 4 vaccines.The UQ one fell over and Novavax delayed.
Compare to NZ where they put their faith in one and Pfizer has also delayed their doses.

And all these things you predicted in say July last year?

 

[Lynda2475]

Compare to NZ where they put their faith in one and Pfizer has also delayed their doses.

Simply not true. NZ also ordered multiple vaccines but then decided to proceed with only Pfizer, due to being able to secure sufficient extra doses of the best performing vaccine for all kiwis.

If needed they can still take delivery of and use their AZ and Novovax orders.

"Money well spent": NZ buys Pfizer doses

Jacinda Ardern says her government's decision to buy 8.5 million doses of Pfizer's COVID-19 vaccine is a great investment.

thewest.com.au

Link below show the other orders they had including AZ:

COVID-19: Purchasing the vaccines

New Zealand has agreements with four suppliers for COVID-19 vaccines Pfizer/BioNTech, AstraZeneca, Janssen Pharmaceutica, and Novavax. We've also bought enough vaccines for those in the Cook Islands, Niue, Tokelau, Sāmoa, Tonga, and Tuvalu.

www.health.govt.nz

 

[hb13]

Except they actually ordered 4 vaccines.The UQ one fell over and Novavax delayed.
Compare to NZ where they put their faith in one and Pfizer has also delayed their doses.

And all these things you predicted in say July last year?

Well it wasn't enough. The UK ordered 7 vaccines. The US 5 vaccines. The EU 5 vaccines. And when Moderna and Pfizer results were released, the EU/US/UK upped their orders.

Why did Australia only order Moderna this month?? Why did Australia sit around and "wait to see what happens" in December, January and Feb before they started?

And what about the messaging? What about the CSL facility? You're just going to give them a pass on that?

 

[drron]

But NZ decided to go with only one.Hence the problems with slow supply

 

[drron]

Well it wasn't enough. The UK ordered 7 vaccines. The US 5 vaccines. The EU 5 vaccines. And when Moderna and Pfizer results were released, the EU/US/UK upped their orders.

Why did Australia only order Moderna this month?? Why did Australia sit around and "wait to see what happens" in December, January and Feb before they started?

And what about the messaging? What about the CSL facility? You're just going to give them a pass on that?

So the countries with larger populations and larger vaccine manufacturing plants ordered 1-3 more vaccines than Australi.Indignificant.

Moderna would not negotiate with Australia at the start plus we already had 1 mRNA vaccine on order from Pfizer.

As to CSL it was delayed by a shortage of some of the components for vaccine delivery.This is world wide.By the time they were to ramp up production the first reports of blood clots came out.Not surprising if they wanted to see how demand would now go especially with all the negative press coverage.
As well CSL is a public company listed on the stock exchange they also have a duty of care to their shareholders.

 

[hb13]

So the countries with larger populations and larger vaccine manufacturing plants ordered 1-3 more vaccines than Australi.Indignificant.

Moderna would not negotiate with Australia at the start plus we already had 1 mRNA vaccine on order from Pfizer.

As to CSL it was delayed by a shortage of some of the components for vaccine delivery.This is world wide.By the time they were to ramp up production the first reports of blood clots came out.Not surprising if they wanted to see how demand would now go especially with all the negative press coverage.
As well CSL is a public company listed on the stock exchange they also have a duty of care to their shareholders.

Population size? The fact that Australia has a smaller population means they should have been much quicker at getting vaccines out. Plus, many scientists and doctors said the Australian vaccine strategy was lacking at the start of the year.

And you've basically backed up my point. CSL does have a duty of care to their shareholders - so that is why the government should have taken that risk away from CSL by paying whatever is needed to ensure CSL did what they need to do to reach their target. This is on the government, not CSL. The government should have paid and sorted everything out to allow CSL to manufacture these vaccines with no risk to the CSL name - unless their was something that CSL did that was out of order or untoward/careless.

And finally messaging, incentives - what's the government done on this? Your argument that this is not on the government just doesn't hold up. They have fed the population on the idea that keeping borders closed for years (or longer) is the only way to stay safe. They have stuffed up the supply. They have not put enough into investment in getting vaccines manufactured and delivered.

Keeping the borders closed indefinitely, especially after you have conditioned the population to think that is the only option to keep Australia safe, which is exactly what is happening, is easy. You can argue for the government and give excuses all day long. They are all excuses that are not accurate in depicting the total carelessness of this government.

Look at Australia's roll-out - it's horrendous for a first-world, wealthy country: Tracking covid-19 across the world

 

[OATEK]

So with anything of this scale, things can and do go wrong, like the blood clot issues for example - yet the government put all their faith in just two vaccines. They realised they made a mistake by not ordering at least one or two more, and that is why they now got the deal done with Moderna. Also, they had to order an extra 20 million Pfizer, which is only coming at the end of this year. It is a job for a government to plan and have redundancies in place.

Secondly, what happened to the CSL facility that was supposed to produce 1 million vaccines per week from the end of March? Just on those supplies alone you would have had 6 million doses now, and we have only given out half of that number with all vaccines at present.

Finally - what about the messaging. What messaging has been there for people to get the jab? What incentive is there? You think saying "even when the whole population is vaccinated, borders will stay closed" - that's good messaging?

How do you assess that the government is not at fault? You seriously give them a pass on the roll-out?

This argument that the AU Govt got the vaccine orders wrong goes counter to the argument that the UK are doing much better with rollout using the very same vaccines.

What the AU Govts did wrong was to stop the spread of Covid - a few thousand more deaths would have provided the stick. Having been so successful it now seems that the stick can only come from opening the borders enough to let cases, hospitalisation and deaths rise - which would be a complete abrogation of their responsibilities.

I have said many times on here that I am desperate to travel to see daughter/granddaughter in UK. The best I can hope for is that having reached the 31/12 this year and everyone has had the opportunity to be vaccinated, that the Govts will say ok, here we go, perhaps still requiring a reason to leave other than leisure (eg business/family reunion).

 

[Kimpos]

Wondering how the Fed govt, having shifted quarantine to the states, will be in a position to enforce a national approach to quarantine. If the Feds, as is their remit, open borders, does it follow that the individual states open theirs without quarantine? Seems a ridiculous question to even ask, but this past year has seen no end of nonsense

 

[mviy]

Wondering how the Fed govt, having shifted quarantine to the states, will be in a position to enforce a national approach to quarantine. If the Feds, as is their remit, open borders, does it follow that the individual states open theirs without quarantine? Seems a ridiculous question to even ask, but this past year has seen no end of nonsense

If the states refuse to comply the Feds could refuse to allow international student arrivals etc. to scale up.

 

[louie-m]

Then you have the press exacerbating anything that happens especially regarding the
Clot incidence.Even today was another case that is obviously not due to the vaccine but the press are having a new attack.

Shock horror, press making a mountain out of a molehill. The problem here IMO lies with whoever decided to release details / numbers of people with suspected clotting issues. They should wait until they are sure before putting the fear of god into people.

 

[SydneySwan]

The retrospectoscope though is an ideal instrument for those who love to complain.

Retrospectoscope - what a fantastic word! Can anyone get one or is it only for doctors?