Project Sunrise - what is it going to mean for non-Sunrisers?

[RSD]

IF Project Sunrise goes ahead as planned what is it going to mean for those of us that don't want to get to London or NYC on massively long non-stop flights?

Given that Qantas currently only "owns" two slots for LHR will this result in

• SYD-LHR Sunrise (obviously)
• either SYD or MEL to LHR via SIN on a A380?
• PER-LHR gets dropped?
• or something else?

What about SYD-NYC - do they have to drop some existing flights to the west coast USA for this due to limits on number of flights in agreements or ?

 

[Bundy Bear]

I thought that Qantas owned 4 slot pairs at Heathrow, but are only using 2.
There used to be 2 Singapore flights, a flight that went through Bangkok, and one through Hong Kong.

 

[levelnine]

Depends if AJ is still at the helm. He's on a mission to cut capacity (eg 747s being replaced with 787s) and to raise prices. Sunrise will be the next big step in that direction (eg by the time the full fleet of A350s arrive, it will almost be time to dump the A380s; they will be replaced with the smaller A350s).

So for non-Sunrisers, especially if they are price sensitive, it probably means switching to Star Alliance for travel to and from LHR/NYC.

 

[RSD]

I thought that Qantas owned 4 slot pairs at Heathrow, but are only using 2.
There used to be 2 Singapore flights, a flight that went through Bangkok, and one through Hong Kong.

I think two of those slots though were actually BA's that we leased - they were taken back when QF ditched BA for Emirates and dropped two of the four flights to LHR - it would be great if QF got back to those days though...

 

[RSD]

Depends if AJ is still at the helm. He's on a mission to cut capacity (eg 747s being replaced with 787s) and to raise prices. Sunrise will be the next big step in that direction (eg by the time the full fleet of A350s arrive, it will almost be time to dump the A380s; they will be replaced with the smaller A350s).

So for non-Sunrisers, especially if they are price sensitive, it probably means switching to Star Alliance for travel to and from LHR/NYC.

Its been a bit of a mixed bag - A380's replaced 747's on some routes, 787's on others - some increases in capacity, some losses. The 747-800 hasn't proven to be immensly popular with airlines from what I've seen.

What is the largest capacity twin engine plane out there?

 

[Batterytraveller]

What is the largest capacity twin engine plane out there?

It will be the 777-9X when it arrives, currently the 777-300ER

 

[dajop]

There’s always the option of flying someone else .........

 

[jase05]

All it means for non sunrisers is they can get there on a better product for a cheaper price so not really any different to now

 

[drron]

Lots of ways for non sunrisers to get to LHR/NYC even on OW.I am sure corona virus will not be causing panic when the Sunrise flights begin so using JL,CX,MH and even AY.
Personally still a lot of points I can transfer to Kris Flyer so hoping the F awards on SQ continue for a while.

 

[Himeno]

I think two of those slots though were actually BA's that we leased - they were taken back when QF ditched BA for Emirates and dropped two of the four flights to LHR - it would be great if QF got back to those days though...

That's backwards. Qantas owns the 4 slot pairs and 2 are currently leased to BA.
Qantas dropped their BKK-LHR and HKG-LHR flights in early 2012, a full year before the tie up with EK and break up with BA.

When QF changed their MEL/SYD-DXB-LHR flight times, to avoid having the A380s sit at LHR for hours and reduce the amount of aircraft required from 6 to 5 (thus allowing them to start A380 flights to DFW), they were able to get their slots changed quickly, because they could take their slot back from BA.

Even if BA had owned the slots, they would likely have had to sell them anyway as they were made to sell some of their LHR slots in order to lock in the BMI purchase and AA ATI partnership.

 

[RSD]

That's backwards. Qantas owns the 4 slot pairs and 2 are currently leased to BA.
Qantas dropped their BKK-LHR and HKG-LHR flights in early 2012, a full year before the tie up with EK and break up with BA.

When QF changed their MEL/SYD-DXB-LHR flight times, to avoid having the A380s sit at LHR for hours and reduce the amount of aircraft required from 6 to 5 (thus allowing them to start A380 flights to DFW), they were able to get their slots changed quickly, because they could take their slot back from BA.

Even if BA had owned the slots, they would likely have had to sell them anyway as they were made to sell some of their LHR slots in order to lock in the BMI purchase and AA ATI partnership.

Cheers for correcting my isinfo @Himeno - I wasn't as tied to QF in those days as I am now so obviously wasn't paying enough attention in class

Post automatically merged: Feb 25, 2020

It will be the 777-9X when it arrives, currently the 777-300ER

How does the 777-9X compare passenger number wise to say a 747?

 

[RSD]

Lots of ways for non sunrisers to get to LHR/NYC even on OW.I am sure corona virus will not be causing panic when the Sunrise flights begin so using JL,CX,MH and even AY.
Personally still a lot of points I can transfer to Kris Flyer so hoping the F awards on SQ continue for a while.

Probably lots of ways on OW but I'm tipping that they are pretty poor Qantas SC and FF points earners

 

[Batterytraveller]

777-9 is 429 in two classes and 349 in 3 classES
747-400 416 in three classes
747-8 is 467 in three classES

Those are nominal seat counts from Wikipedia and configurations vary by comparison a QF 747 has 364 seats in 3 classes

 

[Batterytraveller]

As for the sunrise question my preference is JL to London/New York and JL/CX plus Finnair for elsewhere in Europe. It’s only a few extra hours, half the price and the JL seat and service are phenomenal. (Plus I can layover in Tokyo and get a great dinner and a few bottles of sake in)

 

[harvyk]

I suspect that non-sunrisers will still have options, at least to LHR.
Ultra-longhaul won't suit everyone (esp those in Y), but of course QF won't want to give up the Y market to LHR. I suspect there will still be some 5th freedom flights to LHR happening for a while.

As for JFK, I suspect that will be sunrise only, or QF SYD-LAX/DFW and onto an AA service to NYC, as the Y market for SYD-JFK return is perhaps a little more likely to do tours around the US, and thus won't want to pay the premium for SYD-JFK non-stop (some will of course).

 

[Bundy Bear]

I suspect that non-sunrisers will still have options, at least to LHR.
Ultra-longhaul won't suit everyone (esp those in Y), but of course QF won't want to give up the Y market to LHR. I suspect there will still be some 5th freedom flights to LHR happening for a while.

As for JFK, I suspect that will be sunrise only, or QF SYD-LAX/DFW and onto an AA service to NYC, as the Y market for SYD-JFK return is perhaps a little more likely to do tours around the US, and thus won't want to pay the premium for SYD-JFK non-stop (some will of course).

JFK will most likely be direct,
So Qantas would have.
LAX, SFO, DFW, ORD, JFK, and SEAttle is sure to happen now that Alaska is joining oneworld.

 

[RSD]

JFK will most likely be direct,
So Qantas would have.
LAX, SFO, DFW, ORD, JFK, and SEAttle is sure to happen now that Alaska is joining oneworld.

Seattle would be nice - fly into there and then trip down the coast to L.A. for the flight home. Only problem is that AJ will stuff it up by putting 787's on that run with their too narrow economy seats.

Post automatically merged: Feb 25, 2020

777-9 is 429 in two classes and 349 in 3 classES
747-400 416 in three classes
747-8 is 467 in three classES

Those are nominal seat counts from Wikipedia and configurations vary by comparison a QF 747 has 364 seats in 3 classes

Cheers @Batterytraveller - will be interesting to see what they/we end up with.

 

[ozfflyer]

Think if & when syd/lon & syd/nyc nonstops happen, they won’t be daily.

Think recession is getting worse by the day & will take 5 years to recover, so suggest might only be a couple of nonstops a week to start with.

PER/LHR will remain or might be cut back from daily to 4 or 5 per week.

So some people if flexible date wise will be able to go nonstop to lon/nyc in both directions, but if not date flexible, will have to go via DFW/ORD/SFO/LAX in one direction. Similarly to Lon.

 

[jase05]

Think if & when syd/lon & syd/nyc nonstops happen, they won’t be daily.

Think recession is getting worse by the day & will take 5 years to recover, so suggest might only be a couple of nonstops a week to start with.

PER/LHR will remain or might be cut back from daily to 4 or 5 per week.

So some people if flexible date wise will be able to go nonstop to lon/nyc in both directions, but if not date flexible, will have to go via DFW/ORD/SFO/LAX in one direction. Similarly to Lon.

I was wondering how long it would take before the recession got a mention

AJ isn’t going flat out at this project to fly twice weekly between Sydney and New York. It’s all or nothing

 

[ozfflyer]

I was wondering how long it would take before the recession got a mention

AJ isn’t going flat out at this project to fly twice weekly between Sydney and New York. It’s all or nothing

so you must live in a bubble like in public service or work for a bank. There are going to be many more flights cut due to Corona/economy. Only question is how deep & how many Qantas staff get told to go on holiday for months. Aren't some staff casual or on contracts that might not be renewed ?