Proposed Social Media ban for under-16 kids

[Pushka]

So, if we're going to ban the kids, how are we supposed to prove who we are?

It seems we all have to prove our age on every social platform. That is. We are treated exactly the same as kids until we prove we aren't. So all our IDs will need to be loaded onto every single platform we use. What could possibly go wrong!

The concept is good but how on earth is it going to be implemented in a manner that works for everyone. And based on comments here, the kids needs to be protected if there's no one doing it for them.

 

[Pushka]

My 8 year old daughter will continue to use her tablet. She is 22 years old. She uses tiktok, YouTube and Roblox plus a host of other games she has downloaded. We have lots of arguments about her online time and I lose all the time. Some of the things she watches I don't approve but she has also learnt so many useful things as well.

And this is exactly why social media is an issue for young people. If you suggest she behaves as a 22 year old then that is how she will portray herself online and therein lies the issue.

 

[Viridis]

Lucky I do not follow social media. I have only just heard about it here.

I hate to break it to you @JohnK but ‘social media’ comes in many forms ….. and AFF is one

 

[MEL_Traveller]

It seems we all have to prove our age on every social platform. That is. We are treated exactly the same as kids until we prove we aren't. So all our IDs will need to be loaded onto every single platform we use. What could possibly go wrong!

The concept is good but how on earth is it going to be implemented in a manner that works for everyone. And based on comments here, the kids needs to be protected if there's no one doing it for them.

I’d hope it becomes a bit more streamlined? For those who want it, a single portal where you prove your age and get given a unique identifier or password. That can then be used for any site you wish to enter.

Same identifier could be used for other age-restricted sites such as gambling, alcohol or adult content.

So the downside is that we’re probably going to have to divulge identity documents. And there’s the real risk of those documents being hacked. But this is perhaps where we need stronger controls in that area… like the UK… where banks are forced to compensate victims of online fraud or hacking. And we need streamlined processes for rectifying identity theft.

 

[Lynda2475]

So all our IDs will need to be loaded onto every single platform we use. What could possibly go wrong!

Too much.

There needs to be a solution that doesn't require any personal information to be provided or stored. A unique govt issued code that cant be used for anything else might work.

Although f the account has been active for more than 16 years at the time this nonsense starts it should be automatically exempt.

Once your identity is stolen and misused, no amount of compensation helps, the damage is done, the headache remains.

 

[Pushka]

Too much.

There needs to be a solution that doesn't require any personal information to be provided or stored. A unique govt issued code that cant be used for anything else might work.

Although f the account has been active for more than 16 years at the time this nonsense starts it should be automatically exempt.

Once your identity is stolen and misused, no amount of compensation helps, the damage is done, the headache remains.

%

But I can't see another way? Once it's out it's out! Just like our mobile phone numbers.

Post automatically merged: Tuesday at 9:36 AM

I’d hope it becomes a bit more streamlined? For those who want it, a single portal where you prove your age and get given a unique identifier or password. That can then be used for any site you wish to enter.

Same identifier could be used for other age-restricted sites such as gambling, alcohol or adult content.

So the downside is that we’re probably going to have to divulge identity documents. And there’s the real risk of those documents being hacked. But this is perhaps where we need stronger controls in that area… like the UK… where banks are forced to compensate victims of online fraud or hacking. And we need streamlined processes for rectifying identity theft.

There isn't enough money in the world to compensate all Australians adequately if such a leak of all our ID's occurred.

People/politic as assumed this would just impact the kids. They didn't think it through.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

There isn't enough money in the world to compensate all Australians adequately if such a leak of all our ID's occurred.

People/politic as assumed this would just impact the kids. They didn't think it through.

Well, it already has unfortunately with the likes of Optus and Medibank

There are two parts to this that really need to go hand-in-hand. A system to allow verification, and a system to manage data leaks.

 

[JohnK]

And this is exactly why social media is an issue for young people. If you suggest she behaves as a 22 year old then that is how she will portray herself online and therein lies the issue.

Let's treat everyone the same right?

She is a very mature 8 year old. She knows not to chat with strangers. Don't give name to anyone. Don't give address to anyone.

You are missing a point here. The government does know what is right and wrong. The government does not need to tell me what we do. My last 2 points are extremely important.

I hate to break it to you @JohnK but ‘social media’ comes in many forms ….. and AFF is one

We've had this debate here in the past. It's not really social media and it definitely is nothing like Facebook, Instagram, Twitter etc.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Let's treat everyone the same right?

She is a very mature 8 year old. She knows not to chat with strangers. Don't give name to anyone. Don't give address to anyone.

You are missing a point here. The government does know what is right and wrong. The government does not need to tell me what we do. My last 2 points are extremely important.


We've had this debate here in the past. It's not really social media and it definitely is nothing like Facebook, Instagram, Twitter etc.

Unfortunately it’s not necessarily the strangers on social media that can be the problem. It’s often peers… other (young) kids known to the victim.

 

[Pushka]

Let's treat everyone the same right?

She is a very mature 8 year old. She knows not to chat with strangers. Don't give name to anyone. Don't give address to anyone.

You are missing a point here. The government does know what is right and wrong. The government does not need to tell me what we do. My last 2 points are extremely important.


We've had this debate here in the past. It's not really social media and it definitely is nothing like Facebook, Instagram, Twitter etc.

I’m not missing anything here. The law has to treat everyone the same. Otherwise is discrimination.

AFF will be treated exactly the same as every other social network platform unless the government selects some. It’s not your rules it’s theirs.

 

[Lynda2475]

It's not really social media and it definitely is nothing like Facebook, Instagram, Twitter etc.

It is social media as there is two-way interactions between people. In some senses its more social than Instagram and Twitter which is mostly 1-way communication.

Facebook if you have it set up correctly is only people you actually know, you can limit who can see any individual post and unfriend annoying people very easily.

Well, it already has unfortunately with the likes of Optus and Medibank

How many actually experienced identity theft as a result of these? Not defending in anyway BUT the plus side with Optus at least was that most of the ID documents stolen were expired.

Following the breach Optus no longer collect copies of any ID documents but they do store name, address and masked DOB. They (along with some of the banks) moved to using Digital ID service provided by Masercard ; where you validate your license/passport/medicare card directly with issuing authority, take a selfie on your phone (that stays on your phone) which is compared with t e image on your ID and all that is sent to the business is a unique authorization code to say ID verified.

There are two parts to this that really need to go hand-in-hand. A system to allow verification, and a system to manage data leaks.

Leaks can be patched but if 100points of current ID is stolen then misused during that process there really is no fix; unless biometrics are required for everything.

 

[Chicken]

Not the only country!

Watched something recently where a small Idaho community library had to shut its doors to children as it didn't have space or staff time to go through the library to weed out all the books with references to sex, homosexuality etc which minors are no longer permitted to access.

You are picking USA, which is a pretty low bar to aim for, when 28% of population think that vaccines put computer chips into us, 19% think earth is flat, 29% think Armstrong walked on moon was a TV show ...

And this is exactly why social media is an issue for young people. If you suggest she behaves as a 22 year old then that is how she will portray herself online and therein lies the issue.

So the age of 10 is criminally responsible, but 16 is too dumb to use the net, but every 14 yo kid knows where babies come from.

Politicians, and I dare to say that most adults, well underestimate the level of general knowledge / common sense kids and young people have. Kids and young people know when they see a problem, but what they need are the tools to deal with these problems.

I’d hope it becomes a bit more streamlined? For those who want it, a single portal where you prove your age and get given a unique identifier or password. That can then be used for any site you wish to enter.

This is what the federal government planned to do after Optus and Latitute. Thing is, this is another stupid idea for social media. Say you force Facebook and Instagram to plug into this govt authentication system. Kids would simply move to another system, like Telegram, which is overseas and doesn't care about any government. So, we have just moved the kids from a dodgy area, to a failed lawless area.

Unfortunately it’s not necessarily the strangers on social media that can be the problem. It’s often peers… other (young) kids known to the victim.

Makes no difference with this point, because once this becomes illegal, kids would keep doing it, but they will no longer tell adults when they encounter any problem.

The problem with ID fraud is the least of the problems, and it is a distraction from the key issue here, which is how to give kids the support they need.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Leaks can be patched but if 100points of current ID is stolen then misused during that process there really is no fix; unless biometrics are required for everything.

A streamlined approach is required… documents reissued, with the cost completely covered by the company subject to the hack. Or an insurance scheme paid by companies, where those costs are then covered.

Banks and companies subject to the data hack need to be held accountable, and cover the costs.

That would change data breaches from potentially catastrophic, to ‘majorly inconvenient’, but without them financial implications for the victim.

I think the identity system you outlined is a good one. It has worked well when i have used it. I don’t know how it works for those without identity documents yet though.

 

[drron]

Since this has hit the airwaves I have had 4 surveys on social media. Three from Australian Unis and 1 from NZ.
I can say they don't want the opinion of a 77 year old male.

 

[Daver6]

Here is politicians selling false hope to Australians, just like Trump selling false hope to Americans.

1 - Install VPN, only $5 per month.

Just use TOR and select an exit node in another country. $5/month just saved.

I’d hope it becomes a bit more streamlined? For those who want it, a single portal where you prove your age and get given a unique identifier or password. That can then be used for any site you wish to enter.

Same identifier could be used for other age-restricted sites such as gambling, alcohol or adult content.

So the downside is that we’re probably going to have to divulge identity documents. And there’s the real risk of those documents being hacked. But this is perhaps where we need stronger controls in that area… like the UK… where banks are forced to compensate victims of online fraud or hacking. And we need streamlined processes for rectifying identity theft.

What if you're not an Australian citizen/resident? Are you exempt from this silly attempt at a ban? This idea has more holes than Swiss cheese.

 

[Catweazle]

Rather than social media bans, as with all other technology related kids issues, education is the only real way forward.

The more you "ban" something for kids, the more likely they'll find a way to circumvent it and check it out.

Agreed. Although much of this sort of education should also come from parents. Too many parents expect schools to 'parent' their children these days, it seems - or is that a generalisation? I dunno. I'm just the teacher, but some kids make me scratch my head and wonder more about the parents.

 

[Pushka]

So the age of 10 is criminally responsible, but 16 is too dumb to use the net, but every 14 yo kid knows where babies come from.

That age is likely going to be lifted as well. I thought it was 12 anyway. i think you underestimate the power of social media.

 

[DejaBrew]

I don't believe that we should let perfection be the enemy of good when it comes to addressing this situation. I agree that social media is problematic and something does need to be done as it's getting (gotten?) well out of hand. That being said, I also don't see this as the Govt having cart blanche authority to enact frivolous legislation.

If it isn't foolproof, does that mean we shouldn't implement any restrictions/safeguards? If we were to believe that, then we may as well scrap the existing alcohol and tobacco age restrictions as it's impossible to - with absolute certainty - prevent anyone under 18 from gaining access to such things. Similarly, we may as well scrap driver's licenses as well because it's impossible to prevent unlicensed drivers from getting behind the wheel. Are these things illegal? Sure. But can you guarantee that these restrictions will never be circumvented? Of course not.

Now I don't mean to trivialise the topic at hand, because it is an important discussion. Is the Govt's current proposal the best option? Probably not. I note that the legislation is subject to review post implementation which - if it does get implemented in its current guise - is an important safeguard and at least provides some opportunity for amendment.

Sooner or later, I suspect we'll need to implement some form of federal system that allows for ready identification of citizens/residents/visa holders such that one can either authenticate on demand - or download some form of authenticated certificate/stamp/passkey - that allows for age/identify verification with other sites that does not necessarily require personal details to be shared with the site itself.

At the same time, I agree with many other posters that there is no replacement for parents actually "parenting" (). Parents 100% need to take control of the discussion and education of their children, but I also think that they need appropriate support and the various social media companies + Govt cannot be absolved of any and all responsibility to police, regulate and otherwise manage these platforms and their accessibility.

 

[Viridis]

We've had this debate here in the past. It's not really social media and it definitely is nothing like Facebook, Instagram, Twitter etc.

It is only ‘not’ social media to people that wish to position themselves intellectually above the use of social media ….. in every other respect, it actually ‘is’ social media

Admitting it is the first step ……

 

[Chicken]

A streamlined approach is required… documents reissued, with the cost completely covered by the company subject to the hack. Or an insurance scheme paid by companies, where those costs are then covered.

Banks and companies subject to the data hack need to be held accountable, and cover the costs.

This would still mean data sitting everywhere waiting to be hacked. This would not be the way forward, but to do this, which is kinda like, you log in to myGov, and myGov would authenticate who you are, then tell ATO / Medicare / etc that you are legit. So they could ask Facebook to plug into this system, which is what phone companies and banks will move to.

Just use TOR

TOR is not just exiting out from another country. You just taken this down a much darker path ...... Good point, but much darker

I don't believe that we should let perfection be the enemy of good

This proposal / bill is not perfection be the enemy of the good, this is actually going to make the internet even more dangerous than before, as kids would go from not keen to talk to adults, to completely stopped talking to adults (which I have explained in my earlier post.