Qantas Accused of Price Gouging

[Lynda2475]

Prior to Covid changes, Qantas credits always worked this way its not new, people just have short memories.

One small change they could make that would cost them no money, would be to allow you to use a credit to over pay for a lower/sale fare on same route but forfeit the remaining funds.

i.e if you paid $350 to fly SYD-MEL return in Y but couldn't fly because you caught covid and were given a credit, then a month a later when you can fly that route is on sale for $300, let you use the $350 credit, but you forgo the $50. This gets you from a to b and back for no more than you were willing to pay.

For overseas itineraries, just make sure you have travel insurance, and that will pick up any crazy delta.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Prior to Covid changes, Qantas credits always worked this way its not new, people just have short memories.

One small change they could make that would cost them no money, would be to allow you to use a credit to over pay for a lower/sale fare on same route but forfeit the remaining funds.

i.e if you paid $350 to fly SYD-MEL return in Y but couldn't fly because you caught covid and were given a credit, then a month a later when you can fly that route is on sale for $300, let you use the $350 credit, but you forgo the $50. This gets you from a to b and back for no more than you were willing to pay.

For overseas itineraries, just make sure you have travel insurance, and that will pick up any crazy delta.

I think times have changed. Airlines have demanded unprecedented flexibility from us to cancel flights, amend schedules and deliver partial services (catering, lounges, etc). Not going to win friends by reinstating outdated rules

 

[Mort]

One small change they could make that would cost them no money, would be to allow you to use a credit to over pay for a lower/sale fare on same route but forfeit the remaining funds.

I’m pretty sure this already exists as I recently rebooked a 4 pax MEL-SYD return with a higher value credit from a previous MEL-SYD return, difference was 50-70 from memory.

 

[Lynda2475]

I’m pretty sure this already exists as I recently rebooked a 4 pax MEL-SYD return with a higher value credit from a previous MEL-SYD return, difference was 50-70 from memory.

Did you do a "change" of date rather than cancel and do a new booking? A change can be made to an equal or lower fare (nor refund) or higher fare (provided you pay the difference).

It is also an option if you use a Travel Pass (in fact is better because you can use the remaining funds on another trip) but the traditional credit needs to be used on airfare of equal or higher value which is where some struggle.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

Part of the issue is we lack any consumer protection body here in Australia. I know some may point to the ACCC, but can you name a single ruling or decision that has been favourable to travellers in recent memory? I can't think of any!

There is clearly a need for consumer flexibility particularly when it comes to travel. This are not ordinary times we are living in, and insisting on policies that worked when people could travel by choice rather than by the wind blows are border and health regulations continue to change is unreasonable.

-RooFlyer88

 

[Mort]

Did you do a "change" of date rather than cancel and do a new booking? A change can be made to an equal or lower fare (nor refund) or higher fare (provided you pay the difference).

It is also an option if you use a Travel Pass (in fact is better because you can use the remaining funds on another trip) but the traditional credit needs to be used on airfare of equal or higher value which is where some struggle.

Was definitely a cancel, credit voucher and then rebook much later, still had to book for the 4 pax again as is usually the restriction on a credit, the other downside was it was only valid until dec 30, 21, unlike all my other credits which were valid until 2023 ( most of which have now been automatically changed to Travel Pass) Would actually have preferred a travel pass would have been much more flexible.

 

[encryptededdy]

There is clearly a need for consumer flexibility particularly when it comes to travel.

From a consumer point of view, I would definitely prefer it if travel providers offered improved flexibility for these times. However, I don't think they have to.

If Qantas wanted to completely remove their "Fly Flexible" policy, I wouldn't even be that bothered - consumers can make an informed decision, and many will simply shop around and pick the airline with the flexibility policy that suits them.

The problem (in my opinion) is that Qantas's current "Fly Flexible" policy is very... unintuitive. I'm aware that this is "how it's always worked", but that doesn't mean it was right in the first place.

When customers see a Flight Credit, they assume they can just spend it on anything they'd like, similar to a Gift Voucher. It needs to be very clear that this is not the case.

Additionally, even if they do see the "base fare must be equal or higher value than the original base fare" rule, it is very difficult to understand for people not into airline ticketing. In fact, my friend was caught out by this rule - he thought that it just meant that if you book a cheaper fare, you forfeit the rest of voucher. Unfortunately as we know this isn't the case, and to be honest I can't blame him for thinking this - it's very unintuitive.

To most people, the fare for a given route is a single price "X". It then goes up or down based on a lot of factors. They don't know that there's actually a wide selection of fares for a given flight, even in the same class, and that by saying the fare must be equal or higher value that they actually mean different fare buckets. It doesn't help that these buckets can vary differently, and therefore the (extra) price you pay on top of your flight credit depends wildly based on how closely aligned your flight credit amount is to the next highest fare bucket. That's stupid.

Let's not get into the fact that the above rule was somewhat silently re-introduced in late 2021.

I understand the intent behind this rule (Qantas doesn't want people to rebook onto a sale fare when their ticket booked on an existing route goes on sale), but there's got to be a better way to implement it.

In fact, in my friends instance, I told him to wait until the Qantas sale was over, and he was able to book the fare using his flight credit for cheaper after the sale was over, since the previously sale fare was now back to a price closer to his credit amount. How dumb is that?

 

[ethernet]

Someone might explain how flight credits work in the EU and USA, and if QF's worst excesses are beyond the pale. I an sick and tired of 'Australia Only thinking' rather than ideas, like, how to other countries do this.

Qantas accused of 'price-gouging' after consumers pay triple for flights using credits over cash

Evidence including emails, videos and screenshots supplied to the ABC suggests that prices for the same flights were jacked up when a customer used a flight credit or voucher.

www.abc.net.au

Some of the alleged examples are so egregious and outrageous. Shylock Airlines?

 

[encryptededdy]

One small change they could make that would cost them no money, would be to allow you to use a credit to over pay for a lower/sale fare on same route but forfeit the remaining funds.

I'm curious about this (and maybe someone with more experience can answer this), but I wonder if you could effectively achieve this by booking a multi-city you don't intend to fly (or to fly anyway to collect SC, whatever) to "pad out" your fare.

Say we go with your example, SYD-MEL in Y cancelled for $350 credit. Now the buckets are $250 (sale) or $400 (next highest bucket).

Normally you'd have to pay $50 extra to book, since the next highest bucket is $400. However, could you theoretically call up and book a multi city of SYD-MEL return + one way SYD - OOL. Assuming the SYD - OOL fare is $109, you now have a total cost of $359. In theory you only have to pay an extra $9 to book this, and still get your SYD-MEL return flight, saving you $40. Plus, you get a SYD-OOL flight to either just forfeit (no-show) or use as a status run.

Would this work? I know you can book multi-city fares with flight credits, but I just wasn't sure if my suggestion would theoretically work.

 

[jrfsp]

Even BA is letting ticket holders cancel for any reason and retain full value of their ticket as a voucher.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

Even BA is letting ticket holders cancel for any reason and retain full value of their ticket as a voucher.

In fairness, I don't think it's appropriate to compare a truly international airline like Emirates with a regional airline like Qantas. Say what you will about Emirates, but they were one of the few Australian airlines operating flights internationally out of SYD and other hubs whilst Qantas closed up shop. They also don't keep their customers on hold for 6 hours to make a simple change to their reservation either.

One thing I think this pandemic has shown is the true colours of the airlines we travel with. Some airlines I have treated me well during this time, such as Air Canada rebooking my Aeroplan award flight on an expensive United J fare when they were the only airline flying from Canada to Australia (via LAX). Early on in the pandemic, Malaysian, RyanAir and Alitalia all gave me refunds when I requested due to them cancelling or changing flights none of this flight credit nonsense.

I just wonder for all those people who spent thousands on QF fares in the past several months or years who are now left with worthless credits that can only be used on fares that are uneconomical to book into will be left with a bad taste in their mouth. Make no mistake, this pandemic has taken a toll on Qantas to say nothing of the other Australian international airlines like United and Qatar who largely flew empty birds to this subcontinent during the pandemic, aside from the odd amount of cargo. But as the economy and society recovers, I would not be surprised if many people will remain at home. Why bother booking a flight with an airline if they won't honour the trip you book or provide any value for the money you spent? It's gonna take more than discount fares for airlines to earn their wings in the eyes of customers.

-RooFlyer88

 

[Jean Prouvaire]

Prior to Covid changes, Qantas credits always worked this way its not new, people just have short memories.

It's not new, true, and people complained about it prior to Covid too.

One small change they could make that would cost them no money, would be to allow you to use a credit to over pay for a lower/sale fare on same route but forfeit the remaining funds.

Or they could allow you to keep the remaining funds as a credit for use on a future flight.

i.e if you paid $350 to fly SYD-MEL return in Y but couldn't fly because you caught covid and were given a credit, then a month a later when you can fly that route is on sale for $300, let you use the $350 credit, but you forgo the $50. This gets you from a to b and back for no more than you were willing to pay.

So imagine if you could spend your $350 credit on a $300 flight, then have $50 credit left over which you would then happily put towards a future Qantas flight, rather than going with a competitor from now on because you were disgusted with Qantas's inflexibility and price gouging.

 

[jpp42]

Australian international airlines like United and Qatar who largely flew empty birds to this subcontinent during the pandemic, aside from the odd amount of cargo

The amount of cargo was not "odd" - it was substantial and was the sole reason those flights operated.

 

[Seat0B]

Prior to Covid changes, Qantas credits always worked this way its not new, people just have short memories.

One small change they could make that would cost them no money, would be to allow you to use a credit to over pay for a lower/sale fare on same route but forfeit the remaining funds.

i.e if you paid $350 to fly SYD-MEL return in Y but couldn't fly because you caught covid and were given a credit, then a month a later when you can fly that route is on sale for $300, let you use the $350 credit, but you forgo the $50. This gets you from a to b and back for no more than you were willing to pay.

For overseas itineraries, just make sure you have travel insurance, and that will pick up any crazy delta.

Yes I was horrified in my earlier experience that they would not even let me do this - just forgo the difference - but they absolutely would not allow it. That is truly dodgy behaviour.

 

[Seat0B]

I think times have changed. Airlines have demanded unprecedented flexibility from us to cancel flights, amend schedules and deliver partial services (catering, lounges, etc). Not going to win friends by reinstating outdated rules

I sure hope you are right. But by the newspaper item today, it does not sound like you are.

 

[Seat0B]

If Qantas wanted to completely remove their "Fly Flexible" policy, I wouldn't even be that bothered - consumers can make an informed decision, and many will simply shop around and pick the airline with the flexibility policy that suits them.

The problem (in my opinion) is that Qantas's current "Fly Flexible" policy is very... unintuitive. I'm aware that this is "how it's always worked", but that doesn't mean it was right in the first place.

When customers see a Flight Credit, they assume they can just spend it on anything they'd like, similar to a Gift Voucher. It needs to be very clear that this is not the case.

Yes all of this, plus the "fare difference" when you change flights - so really the Fly Flexible policy is not worth much for revenue tickets at all. However, it has been quite good for free cancellation of award flights.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

I think times have changed. Airlines have demanded unprecedented flexibility from us to cancel flights, amend schedules and deliver partial services (catering, lounges, etc). Not going to win friends by reinstating outdated rules

I think you raise an interesting point. Like it or not the pandemic has disrupted the way we travel. Airlines have certainly had to make adjustments that we as customers have to accept (e.g. reduced schedules, reduced services, closed lounges, 6 hour wait times to call customer service, etc.). Whilst we may whine and complain about those changes, we have largely accepted those as being a fact of life in the environment we live in. However, we should also expect there to be reciprocation when we need to cancel due to border closures, or if we unfortunately end up getting COVID and cannot travel. Unfortunately, that is not happening from some airlines, namely regionals like QF.

Again airlines like QF are shooting themselves in the foot by not being flexible with their customers during this trying time. Governments everywhere have been telling us to stay at home, avoid non-essential travel, closing borders and in the instances where travel is permitted making us jump through many hoops. It's a struggle enough as it is to convince people to start flying again, and when people read stories about how the airlines shafted loyal customers during this trying time by making the flights they needed to cancel due to a global pandemic effectively unusable with highly restricted rebooking terms people will keep away from travelling regardless of the cost. Don't get me wrong, this is actually a blessing in disguise for those of us who can travel, as it means emptier lounges, cheaper flights and emptier planes meaning we don't have to rub shoulders with kettles as much. But I have trouble seeing how this will aid in the survivability of the airlines longer term.

-RooFlyer88

 

[aikman]

All this talk of price gouging will be forgotten when the DSC offer comes out. We all know it, Qantas knows it. It's just the way that it is.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

All this talk of price gouging will be forgotten when the DSC offer comes out. We all know it, Qantas knows it. It's just the way that it is.

Unless and until QF offers DSC promo on JQ flights, this issue will remain in the forefront of my mind!

-RooFlyer88

 

[Captain Halliday]

The requirement to use a credit towards an equal or higher fare bucket has always puzzled me both in terms of customer satisfaction and revenue generation.

At a simple level, QF ensure the revenue is retained, plus a little bit (where a higher fare is purchased). But what goes with that is a loss of goodwill with customers which, it seems, QF isn’t worried about.

Yet allowing the credit to be used for any flight, effectively a gift voucher, would remove most of the goodwill issue and might generate extra revenue.

Simple example:

Customer cancels a BNE-MEL return fare at $269 each way. Total $538.

Let’s say the pax still wants to go to MEL at a later date but there’s a sale at say $209 each way.

In this example the pax still gets to MEL and as seats on that flight fill up, QF sell fares in higher buckets.

Meantime, our hypothetical customer has a $140 voucher and decides a trip to CNS is in order with his/her “saving”.

The CNS flights are $169 each way so the customer uses the $140 voucher and stumps up the extra $198 - more revenue for QF and two extra seats filled.

Granted this is a very simple example. I’m sure there’s myriad other scenarios, many of which may not fall in QF favour.

I’m also sure QF crunched the numbers before deciding on a policy, but two years later I still don’t get it.