Qantas aircraft servicing MEL PER

[nessjez]

I fly MEL PER business class almost weekly 6 months of the year. I'm a bit confused as to what Qantas is doing with the aircraft they're using for this route.

It used to be 767-300s and the odd 737-800. Now the flights I take have been replaced with A330s - either with sleeper pods or the current domestic business seat (which I can't stand - all those fiddly buttons on the side for light/audio etc). Now I see on Monday morning I've got a 737-400. A 400!! How on earth can they justify flying that thing to Perth?

If that's a regular aircraft then Qantas have a real issue with mainting a standard of comfort in business class on this route. An A330 sleeper next to one of those 400 wannabe business seats is chalk and cheese. But I bet the fare is the same.

 

[mannej]

Maybe if you could be more specific with flight numbers, then someone may be in the know as to why this change has occurred. There are a number of reasons, and it may not have to do with the MEL-PER leg, but a flight leaving from PER afterwards.

It looks like you were on QF769 today, which indeed was a 734, but next week it seems to be back to a 763, so it could have been a last minute swap. These happen from time to time

 

[medhead]

I'm interested in the answer on this one. I do think they are shuffling the 737-400s around a bit as a heap of my November SYD-ADL flights have changed from an 800 to a 400. I had to confirm a booking change and the only difference I could see was the different aircraft and arrival 5 minutes earlier.

BTW On my first read I thought you wrote 747-400. That was confusing when reading the complaints about the seat.

 

[pauly7]

Qantas recently added a new daily flight to/fro Perth on top of all the A330 and 763 flights.... From the press release I think I recall the ex Perth time was early AM.....?

They did it to respond to a sharp rise in demand and IIRC have no other a/c free to throw on the route ATM so it ended up a 734. Easy to avoid if you like.

When I get on a comp I'll search for that news release... It wasn't that long ago... Or someone else may beat me to it

PS sorry you have problems operating the new gen A330 J seat - I think it's great!!

 

[NM]

I don't why operating a 737-400 to Perth is a problem? They fly them Trans-Tasman and they have been operating to PER for many years and have proven to be reliable and capable on the route.

The JetConnect 734s now operating Trans-Tasman has the same business class seats as the domestic configuration 767s and 738s. I am not sure if the remaining mainline 734s have the Millennium J seats installed like the JetConnect aircraft.

Skybeds on the A330s operating domestic services should not be considered the benchmark. They are international aircraft being used on a domestic operation.

The reason Qantas can use 734's with older business class seats on domestic flights to Perth is because they are still offering the best business class seat on the route when compared with other operators.

 

[markis10]

The reason Qantas can use 734's with older business class seats on domestic flights to Perth is because they are still offering the best business class seat on the route when compared with other operators.

Thats a worry, a claim the convertible seat is the best ! Dont forget they still need the odd 734 for the full Y config flights which I think have just been expanded.

 

[nessjez]

I don't why operating a 737-400 to Perth is a problem?

Are you serious? It might have been OK 10 years ago but you can't stick two economy seats together with a bit of padding in between and call it business. No video on demand, no laptop power, poor communal video screens, higher noise levels, the list goes on. It's bad enough when I get one of these to Canberra, let alone Perth.

Fair enough you can't use Skybeds as a benchmark, but you also have to acknowledge that a standard issue 767 or A330 offers comfort far above the 400. At least trans-Tasman it's just one type of aircraft serving the route. To offer such different aircraft on the same route is just not on.

And to answer an earlier question - I get the standard issue A330 on QF485 (used to be 767), Skybeds home on QF776 (used to be 767), and the 737-400 on QF480 (used to be 737-800). I like the A330 overall (except those stupid buttons - how do you turn your light on when your tray table's out?), but give us back the 800 please.

 

[NM]

Are you serious? It might have been OK 10 years ago but you can't stick two economy seats together with a bit of padding in between and call it business. No video on demand, no laptop power, poor communal video screens, higher noise levels, the list goes on. It's bad enough when I get one of these to Canberra, let alone Perth.

But what are you using as the benchmark? Which alternate carrier operating trans-continental domestic business class services are you comparing to? You say it was ok to use the 734 for this route 10 years ago, but not now? I have not seen any new operators being successful with a better product in the same market. The only one to have tried was OzJet and although they had a great product they failed to generate enough demand. Qantas are just delivering to the marker demand. Perhaps things will change if Virgin Blue can bring a business class product to the market. But at the moment Qantas has no reason not to use their 734 aircraft and its existing business class hard produce on that route.

 

[pauly7]

Are you serious? It might have been OK 10 years ago but you can't stick two economy seats together with a bit of padding in between and call it business.

IIRC they only operate 1 flight so relatively easy to avoid if you have serious issue with the 734...

Fair enough you can't use Skybeds as a benchmark, but you also have to acknowledge that a standard issue 767 or A330 offers comfort far above the 400. At least trans-Tasman it's just one type of aircraft serving the route.

Sorry that is completely incorrect. QF operate A330, the next gen 73H's (with the same new seats that you struggle with the light button on!), 734's and the odd 763 on Trans Tasman. Until recently they had the odd 744 for good measure!

I guess comfort is really an individual thing, personally I say I'd take a skybed> next gen j > millennium> convertible. But on a day flight skybed is a bit overkill im more than happy with next gen J...

So I pick the flight with the seat I want! Simple.

 

[drewbles]

Are you serious? It might have been OK 10 years ago but you can't stick two economy seats together with a bit of padding in between and call it business. No video on demand, no laptop power, poor communal video screens, higher noise levels, the list goes on. It's bad enough when I get one of these to Canberra, let alone Perth.

Try AA on their MD80's or 757 services. No AVOD, No AC Laptop Power (requires a DC adaptor, if the system is working), No communal video screens, noisy, old, rattly. And as for an in-flight service? forget it.

The 734's aren't new or flashy, but they are the exception to the rule in general as QF phase them out.

But agreed paying that much for a J service that's no more than Economy with leg/bum room and better food booze is robbery.

 

[Flashback]

Try AA on their MD80's or 757 services. No AVOD, No AC Laptop Power (requires a DC adaptor, if the system is working), No communal video screens, noisy, old, rattly. And as for an in-flight service? forget it.

The 734's aren't new or flashy, but they are the exception to the rule in general as QF phase them out.

But agreed paying that much for a J service that's no more than Economy with leg/bum room and better food booze is robbery.

It's still luxury compared to "business class" around Europe:!: :shock:

 

[nessjez]

But what are you using as the benchmark?

Qantas set their own benchmark. An A330 for the forward journey and a 734 for the return at the same price point is not a comparable level of service. I suggested they might have got away with these convertible seats 10 years ago, but times change and newer aircraft arrive and when you fly people 3000km across the country at $1700 a pop you can't exactly get away with that sort of thing these days. Expectations change over time and convertible seats are just not good enough on one of the country's longer routes.

Either you set a standard of service you can maintain, or you recognise that you don't have the fleet to provide the consistency customers such as myself are looking for, and you price it accordingly.

Apologies to pauly7 if I got the MEL AKL aircraft wrong. I've only ever seen 734s on that route. But it's not so easy to avoid the 734 out of Perth. If you don't want to waste half a day there then QF480 is the only option. It's not like they have flights going every half hour.

 

[737]

Just to let you know, on the A330 you should be able to turn on the light using the button near the light in the panel above you (I think, I am not a pax on that much ), as well as in the IFE controls... However, some of those overhead panels on the A330 are quite a bit above you, so may be hard.

 

[straitman]

Qantas set their own benchmark. An A330 for the forward journey and a 734 for the return at the same price point is not a comparable level of service. I suggested they might have got away with these convertible seats 10 years ago, but times change and newer aircraft arrive and when you fly people 3000km across the country at $1700 a pop you can't exactly get away with that sort of thing these days. Expectations change over time and convertible seats are just not good enough on one of the country's longer routes.

As pointed out a few times, you have the option of picking a difference flight and consequently a different aircraft.

Either you set a standard of service you can maintain, or you recognise that you don't have the fleet to provide the consistency customers such as myself are looking for, and you price it accordingly.

To fly every flight with exactly the same aircraft is not a practical option. I firmly believe that more aircraft over the day is more beneficial than less flights of a common aircraft.

Apologies to pauly7 if I got the MEL AKL aircraft wrong. I've only ever seen 734s on that route. But it's not so easy to avoid the 734 out of Perth. If you don't want to waste half a day there then QF480 is the only option. It's not like they have flights going every half hour.

In about 10 min I am about to get on a QF 738 out of AKL.

If the choice for you is either a 734 as QF480 or they cancel the flight as they don't have another aircraft to offer. I know what my preference would be.

 

[markis10]

IIRC they only operate 1 flight so relatively easy to avoid if you have serious issue with the 734...

How is it easy to avoid convertible seats on a 734, they only have the odd all Y flight but every aircraft in the fleet has the same seats, all 17 of them, with a headphone and AV controls in the arm rest. Having done a few flights in J last month where I got off the 734 and on a 738 domestically, its a significant difference in comfort going from one to the other.

 

[Mrmaxwell]

My issue of trying to save an additional $70 by moving my entire holiday to Thailand flying Air Sardine (Air Asia X) is far more pressing than your "I don't like my business class seat on one particular aircraft type" issue

Our problems are all relative.

Either call Qantas or go online to avoid the 734 when you can, or at worst just grin and bear it - rather simple really.

 

[nessjez]

Our problems are all relative

True. And when you fly this route every week like I do these things become more important.

I'll go back to my original post which was that Qantas have made a number of changes to aircraft on this route and while some services have been upgraded, others have been downgraded.

 

[markis10]

I'll go back to my original post which was that Qantas have made a number of changes to aircraft on this route and while some services have been upgraded, others have been downgraded.

I believe you have a right to get what is advertised, for those that say a convertible is still business class then you need to have a look at the Qantas advertising:

I have left the page almost entirely as it appears on the website to show the lack of a * or any mention of the fact that not all aircraft have the promised product.

This is a long way off what QF features as Domestic Business on their marketing:

Photos: Boeing 737-476 Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net

Unless you have been compensated for the lack of product being provided as advertised in the form of a lower fare, I do consider it to be bait and switch when you get a 737-400 regardless of what route you travel on. Qantas should really highlight that they have old substandard product that "may" be provided on occasion, they dont.

 

[pauly7]

How is it easy to avoid convertible seats on a 734, they only have the odd all Y flight but every aircraft in the fleet has the same seats, all 17 of them

I was responding to the OP if you go back and re-read they are talking about a specific route which the 734 appearances are in the absolute minority. Therefore relatively easy to avoid.

You are talking about avoiding the J convertible seats on the 734 when you fly J on a 734..... Domestically at least then yes that would be a little difficult

Of course as already pointed out by NM already the TT 734's have millennium J seats.

 

[serfty]

There are still at least 2 Jetconnect 734 operating with Millennium seating in business. The others have gone to that far less comfortable new seating as found on the new Domestic 332's.

The OP can indeed check the type of aircraft before flying. If the issue regarding seating product is that important, they should be making further efforts to avoid any 734 that may be operating the route.