Qantas Award Charges Outrageous

[defurax]

I don't really see why someone should necessarily be able to fly to London in first class for basically the cost of opening two credit cards.

No different than free hotel rooms with SPG or other programs. A few credit card promotions can give you a week in Bora Bora or Tahiti...
Airlines have simply decided to invent all sorts of fees on award bookings. Apart from immigration,airport and security fees, i still think award bookings should be almost free...like my last JFK-YYZ award for $2.50 or MEL-BME in J for $25.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I don't really see why someone should necessarily be able to fly to London in first class for basically the cost of opening two credit cards.

It's the choice airlines make - selling points to the banks who then give them away. The price? Well awards seats are seats that would otherwise go empty anyway. They aren't seats the airline thinks they can sell.

Some airlines have moved away from a frequent flyer scheme to a points selling scheme (the airlines selling to merchants). QF is one of those. But those earning points through flights are doubly penalised through (a) simpler and afiarer and then (b) because they pay for the fuel surcharge once with the airfare, and then again for the redemption. It's double dipping by the airline and inconsistent with their justification that the fees would only be there because fuel was high.

 

[BacchusMarsh]

It's the choice airlines make - selling points to the banks who then give them away. The price? Well awards seats are seats that would otherwise go empty anyway. They aren't seats the airline thinks they can sell.

Some airlines have moved away from a frequent flyer scheme to a points selling scheme (the airlines selling to merchants). QF is one of those. But those earning points through flights are doubly penalised through (a) simpler and afiarer and then (b) because they pay for the fuel surcharge once with the airfare, and then again for the redemption. It's double dipping by the airline and inconsistent with their justification that the fees would only be there because fuel was high.

Thanks. I haven't been here all that long, admittedly, but I do believe that I understand some of the issues. I'm about 23k in QFF with flesh in the game elsewhere too.

Your (b) really doesn't make sense given that QF now feels comfortable selling miles. Please think about it a little more. The value of a point is the same to someone who earns it through flying or through buying whatever or churning whatever cards. No double dipping. If the frequent fliers choose to attach sentimental value to their miles, it's their problem.

 

[JohnK]

I don't really see why someone should necessarily be able to fly to London in first class for basically the cost of opening two credit cards.

And I totally agree with you there.

The points I earn from flying almost every week should not be treated the same as the points someone earns from churning multiple credit cards every year. Or from 1c payments. Or from paying business tax returns.

But I am being selfish again.

 

[Pleb Status]

Looking at a PER-LHR-PER J award at the moment and the problem is that the full cost of a revenue Y fare (on a couple of full service airlines) is less than the tax/surcharge component of the QF (EK) J award.

 

[amaroo]

And I totally agree with you there.

The points I earn from flying almost every week should not be treated the same as the points someone earns from churning multiple credit cards every year. Or from 1c payments. Or from paying business tax returns.

But I am being selfish again.

Thanks for the reminder. We've been pretty slack on the CC churning - I think the last application either one of us did was ~ 2 years ago. Have plenty of scope to supersize the balance.

Something for the New Year..

 

[I love to travel]

After sleeping on it, I decided I'd have a go at getting some seats released on a different route - Boom!

Just booked BNE-SYD-DFW 2 x J and 2 x J/F ... the fees totalled $1,998.68

Even with the 24,000 QFFP (recently increased) cancellation fee - I'm still smiling :mrgreen:

Did I miss somethings, have Qantas increased their change and cancellation fees?

 

[amaroo]

Did I miss somethings, have Qantas increased their change and cancellation fees?

Yes, IIRC cancellation is now 6k from 5k and changes is 5k up from 3.5.

Started 15th Dec ... lucky me!

 

[Limewood]

I don't really see why someone should necessarily be able to fly to London in first class for basically the cost of opening two credit cards.

Of course there are a few international QF award sectors where fees are nearly reasonable, but say SYD to LAX in J on QF award flights a different story about $900!!, what a joke. These our outrageous fees, are wrong and should be outlawed reason this thread was started. And.. try AA, CX and the like cheap as chips on fees.

 

[ComeFlyWithMe]

...Well awards seats are seats that would otherwise go empty anyway. They aren't seats the airline thinks they can sell.

I disagree. I'm sure the airline could sell them, they have to make them available so there is a perception of being two sides to the "loyalty" equation.

One thing I have noticed on routed like SYD-SCL is that it presents a funny seat map with missing J seats. I wonder if there are load factors at play here and QF may be unable to actually use all of the seats on their 744. This could be affecting award availability which is notoriously poor on this route.

 

[amaroo]

I disagree. I'm sure the airline could sell them, they have to make them available so there is a perception of being two sides to the "loyalty" equation.

One thing I have noticed on routed like SYD-SCL is that it presents a funny seat map with missing J seats. I wonder if there are load factors at play here and QF may be unable to actually use all of the seats on their 744. This could be affecting award availability which is notoriously poor on this route.

IIRC those seats are allocated to LAN

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I disagree. I'm sure the airline could sell them, they have to make them available so there is a perception of being two sides to the "loyalty" equation.

One thing I have noticed on routed like SYD-SCL is that it presents a funny seat map with missing J seats. I wonder if there are load factors at play here and QF may be unable to actually use all of the seats on their 744. This could be affecting award availability which is notoriously poor on this route.

The tradition economics of award seats are that they are empty seats. QF shouldn't be giving up first class tickets at $16k a pop for 'free' if there are people trying to book with hard cash, hence the caveat that award seats aren't available on all flights. Airlines have their advance seat numbers pretty exact these days (or so they tell us when it comes to overbooking). Anything left they can give away, and QF has a lottery for last minute unsold seats.

Sure they could sell them cheaper, but that would likely degrade total earnings if $16k pax find out they can book the same seat for $10k. Could they have a smaller cabin? probably yes, but I agree they likely have extra seats so they can give them away as awards.

 

[serfty]

And I totally agree with you there.

The points I earn from flying almost every week should not be treated the same as the points someone earns from churning multiple credit cards every year. Or from 1c payments. Or from paying business tax returns.

But I am being selfish again.

Qantas do treat points differently depending on status.

I as a WP would have no trouble redeeming a premium cabin award on QF next February, to the US, Asia or Europe.

However SWMBO who is nb does not see them.

It has been this way in such a dramatic fashion since around the beginning of this year.

 

[Danger]

After sleeping on it, I decided I'd have a go at getting some seats released on a different route - Boom!

Just booked BNE-SYD-DFW 2 x J and 2 x J/F ... the fees totalled $1,998.68

Even with the 24,000 QFFP (recently increased) cancellation fee - I'm still smiling :mrgreen:

So you asked Qantas to release seats? Was this four seats in total on the same flight? What month of travel?

 

[froggerADL]

I recently asked for two SYD-JNB J seats to be released as a WP. Request granted. Charges were A$375 each which wasn't as bad as I'd expected. $150 off that from an Amex offer sweetened the deal somewhat.

 

[amaroo]

So you asked Qantas to release seats? Was this four seats in total on the same flight? What month of travel?

All on the same flight/day, Dec 2017. Only ended up requiring 1 F seat released, as I was stupidly searching for 2 J & 2 F ... turns out the daily availability is 2 J & 1 F.

FWIW the cost was 560,000 points and $499.67pp ... which is reasonable value IMO

 

[Limewood]

To ASIA fees are reasonable but..try QF J award seats to USA different story for some reason.

 

[hossein_au]

To ASIA fees are reasonable but..try QF J award seats to USA different story for some reason.

Competition and proper legislation are wonderful things... (at least when properly set up and working together)

 

[avaction]

Cancelling my booking with Qantas, SYD DXB J taxes $794.00. Booked Etihad 1st Class using AA points, taxes AU$175 (for 2 pax). BIG difference ......

 

[Lonely Flyer]

Cancelling my booking with Qantas, SYD DXB J taxes $794.00. Booked Etihad 1st Class using AA points, taxes AU$175 (for 2 pax). BIG difference ......

Now this needs a Senate Enquiry...