QANTAS being taken over by Macquarie Bank..

[Soundguy]

It all started with outsourcing IT, some maintenence - and threatening more, cabin crew bases employing locals in Thailand, NZ and the UK (at much cheaper rates)

Greed is not limited soley to the upper management of QANTAS. It should be a free market with wages determined by supply and demand, not unions. I'm not too happy about the changes but I do hope it results in the reduction of artificially over inflated salaries..... something comparable to other Australian airlines.

And including the upper management also of course.

Simongr post @ 7.47am - great points, agree with you!

 

[JohnK]

How are Dixon and company going to provide a 20% profit for the prospective new owners? What is going to change? Keep in mind that the 80% of the funds required for the takeover will be borrowed.

If the above future profitability is possible for the prospective new owners then why couldn't Dixon and company provide the same returns for the current owners?

I can only hope that sanity prevails and the shareholders vote against the takeover or the wimps in government veto the takeover.

 

[simongr]

How long is it safe to hold onto our QF FF points? We are a little short for the trip we want to do in March 2008 and I can't book it until March 2007 anyway. I don't know how long a sale like this is going to take to go through. We don't want to burn our points on an earlier trip, unless it is likely we are going to lose them, as we did our Ansett points.

I am not chicken licken so like DN I dont believe the sky is falling in.

I dont see any major change in the FF program at this time. they cant afford to. Any change to the FF program will require an exit from Oneworld and I dont think is possible in the short term.

However! If you are planning a trip in 2008 based on points I would advise caution. If this is a very important personal trip (honeymoon, 25th wedding etc...) thenFF points usage on major routes will never be guaranteed. Its not a factor of the change of ownership just a factor of FF programs.

It might be worth posting your planned trip to get an idea of advice of better planning etc. That might give you an indication of better availability potential etc

S

P.s. Goodman fielder was bought by a private equity business on a leveraged buy out (I think)adn has now been returned to Oz ownership. Poor performing brands have been disposed of and what remains is a profitable business. But hey thats obviously not a model for QF is it...

 

[Yada Yada]

I don't believe that the sky is falling in

No, but the captain just instucted everyone to take their seats & fasten their seatbelts because the turbulence is about to get strong.

 

[pauly7]

No, but the captain just instucted everyone to take their seats & fasten their seatbelts because the turbulence is about to get strong.

Virgin's captain? Yes I would agree on that, there could be some major $ coming QF's way to fastrack expansion.. and that would have Virgin worried, especially since they got stalled by Patrick/Toll in their own ownership saga. This one is at least amicable.

 

[oz_mark]

Virgin's captain? Yes I would agree on that, there could be some major $ coming QF's way to fastrack expansion.. and that would have Virgin worried, especially since they got stalled by Patrick/Toll in their own ownership saga. This one is at least amicable.

Indeed, a Qantas moving into a more aggresive expansionary phase is one possible outcome of this buyout.

 

[dizey47]

I am not chicken licken so like DN I dont believe the sky is falling in.

I dont see any major change in the FF program at this time. they cant afford to. Any change to the FF program will require an exit from Oneworld and I dont think is possible in the short term.

However! If you are planning a trip in 2008 based on points I would advise caution. If this is a very important personal trip (honeymoon, 25th wedding etc...) thenFF points usage on major routes will never be guaranteed. Its not a factor of the change of ownership just a factor of FF programs.

It might be worth posting your planned trip to get an idea of advice of better planning etc. That might give you an indication of better availability potential etc

S

I don't understand what you said about posting our planned trip? Where do I get advice of better planning? There is no special occasion for the March 08 trip, just March is not too hot or too cold in Hong Kong and not peak season. We went there last March in business on FF points and would like to do it again. We are retired and not too fussy about exactly which day we travel and have always found if I book well enough ahead we can usually get some seats. We have some flights booked in *class on Jetstar in Feb and March 07 which will give us more than enough points for our March 08 trip. Of course subject to availability. I was just concerned how this takeover was going to affect FF members and if we were reasonably safe not to burn the points now.

 

[pacblue]

Hmm - again we have this view that an Australian airline needs to be 100% australian staffed to be Australian. This isnt the 19th century - things have moved on. I dont see why this is the end of the world.
quote]

Not the end of the world at all.

I said nothing about using international staff and being un-Australian.

What I was pointing out was that they are paid MUCH lower rates than the Aussie based QF staff (ie) more cost cutting.

Simply that, nothing more.

 

[pacblue]

The use of the word currently means nothing other than there are no plans to change it. This doesn't mean that they won't change it in the future and that is no different than if they were not selling. I would not expect anyone to make an absolute that they will never change it in the future. I don't believe that the sky is falling in Dave

I agree.

I was merely pointing out that there are no guarantees - and that in IMHO they are having an each-way bet.

 

[JohnK]

I was just concerned how this takeover was going to affect FF members and if we were reasonably safe not to burn the points now.

The takeover could be a drawn out process taking 3-6 months before completion. I think you should be safe waiting until March-April before making any award bookings for 2008.

 

[simongr]

I don't understand what you said about posting our planned trip? Where do I get advice of better planning? There is no special occasion for the March 08 trip, just March is not too hot or too cold in Hong Kong and not peak season. We went there last March in business on FF points and would like to do it again. We are retired and not too fussy about exactly which day we travel and have always found if I book well enough ahead we can usually get some seats. We have some flights booked in *class on Jetstar in Feb and March 07 which will give us more than enough points for our March 08 trip. Of course subject to availability. I was just concerned how this takeover was going to affect FF members and if we were reasonably safe not to burn the points now.

I was just suggesting that if you had a complex itinerary or were trying to do something difficult (like my planned RTW for mrssimongr which I am trying to link into my DONE4) that people here might be able to offer advice on the best route etc. Given you have flexibility on dates etc. it should be a lot easier to book.

There is no guarantee at the moment with the FF program - but also no indication that anything will change.

 

[Yada Yada]

Virgin's captain? Yes I would agree on that, there could be some major $ coming QF's way to fastrack expansion.. and that would have Virgin worried, especially since they got stalled by Patrick/Toll in their own ownership saga. This one is at least amicable.

No, I wasn't talking about Virgin Blue. Virgin have low enough costs and are flexible enough that they could adjust pretty quickly to any change in the landscape. It is legacy airlines such as Qantas that cannot change very quickly and are the most exposed to change.

The major $ that flow from the sale of Qantas are unlikely to be used to fastrack any expansion at QF. They will more likely be used to fastrack the growth of Jetstar, which we all know operates far more efficiently that QF.

Having new owners at QF is not going to make it any easier for the company to change existing cost structures, especially with regards to staffing. There is an entrenched entitlement mentality at QF that will not go away overnight and if pushed too hard staff will strike. And they'd likely have the public behind them. While QF has used the "national carrier" and "spirit of Australia" taglines to its benefit for many years, in some ways this has become a millstone around their neck because the general public and politicians feel that the company has certain obligations, as if it were a public utility.

By comparison, the cost structure at JQ is heaps lower and they have none of the entrenched staffing issues that exist at QF, nor the weight of public obligation. To expand, they need more aircraft and this requires big $. The new owners will have the money to spend. Meanwhile, there is absolutely nothing stopping them from re-painting more of the existing QF fleet in a silver/orange livery, in addition to snagging any of the new jets that are due for arrival. It is the sensible thing to do and involves the least pain.

For the diehard QFF member, this may be disconcerting. They will obviously try to wean these people off QF and onto JQ over time.

 

[Yada Yada]

Turbulence is approaching...

From: No guarantees on jobs: Dixon - Business - Business - smh.com.au
THE Qantas chief executive, Geoff Dixon, has refused to rule out cutting Australian jobs or sending call centre and administration work overseas after the airline's takeover is completed.

"We reserve the right to run the company in the best interests of everybody," he said yesterday. There were no plans to send jobs overseas, but if the need arose, "We'd obviously have to consider it."

From: Qantas unions prepare for battle - Business - Business - smh.com.au
QANTAS unions meet tomorrow to forge a united front amid growing concerns the Macquarie Bank consortium's $11 billion takeover of the national airline will mean job losses.

Almost a dozen unions representing workers, including those covering pilots, flight attendants, engineers and baggage handlers, will meet on a teleconference to discuss their strategy amid growing uncertainty among Qantas's 35,000-strong workforce.

 

[simongr]

I hope for their sakes that they dont try and hold the company to ransom. I am afraid that to protect the jobs of some of that 35,000 a good few thousands are going to have to be sacrificed. If I was Geoff Dixon and the unions tried to block this or make it unpalatable for the new owners - the first thing I would do after teh deal fell through would be to outsource as much as I could, move as many jobs as possible to JQ and source from overseas as many staff as possible.

I dont think this purchase will change any of that either way...

 

[JohnK]

Turbulence is approaching...

They are showing their hand very early. This will be anything but a smooth transition.

"We reserve the right to run the company in the best interests of everybody," he said yesterday. There were no plans to send jobs overseas, but if the need arose, "We'd obviously have to consider it."

The best thing for QF right now would be to have the deal rejected and sack the board and management.

If the deal goes ahead then people should fly DJ, or use buses and trains, in preferance to QF and JQ. Then we will see how sweet the deal is for private equity.

 

[Kiwi Flyer]

They are showing their hand very early. This will be anything but a smooth transition.


The best thing for QF right now would be to have the deal rejected and sack the board and management.

If the deal goes ahead then people should fly DJ, or use buses and trains, in preferance to QF and JQ. Then we will see how sweet the deal is for private equity.

Why are you so anti this deal? It comes across that you are taking this very personally.

The Board has a responsibility to shareholders to get the best deal. If they thought the offer represented the best returns to shareholders then they needed to accept the deal.

Clearly you have different views to the board and the sharemarket (eg valuing shares at $7).

 

[pacblue]

If I was Geoff Dixon and the unions tried to block this or make it unpalatable for the new owners - the first thing I would do after the deal fell through would be to outsource as much as I could, move as many jobs as possible to JQ and source from overseas as many staff as possible.
quote]

What's this called ? ... some sort of vindictive industrial relations policy ?

You should get in touch with Geoff, it seems great minds think alike.

You'd also be great PR for the government's IR laws.

 

[pacblue]

The best thing for QF right now would be to have the deal rejected and sack the board and management. If the deal goes ahead then people should fly DJ, or use buses and trains, in preferance to QF and JQ. Then we will see how sweet the deal is for private equity.

Well said.

Let's see how much support there is for the deal by some on this site, when it finally goes ahead - and they realise the Qantas they knew simply doesn't exist anymore.

 

[pacblue]

Why are you so anti this deal? It comes across that you are taking this very personally.The Board has a responsibility to shareholders to get the best deal. If they thought the offer represented the best returns to shareholders then they needed to accept the deal.

Ah, hello ...

Perhaps it's because some of us can see that the gutting of a once-great airline, is just around the corner.

 

[JohnK]

Why are you so anti this deal? It comes across that you are taking this very personally.

It is my right. Is that OK? I am old enough to have seen this happen more than once and it has affected me when it shouldn't. Remember bottom of the harbour schemes.

These people, and I use the term very loosely, who want to takeover Qantas for $11 billion only have 20% of the funds required. Yes, they will borrow 80% to fund the deal. If something goes wrong they declare themselves bankrupt and have no obligation to pay anything back.

I am sick and tired of these practices and it is time the majority took control back. Two of the key players in this deal are losers. Bob Mansfield and the person on the QF board who in his only venture without dad failed miserably.

By the way the 3 or 4 people on AFF who are for this deal are very much in the minority. Over 85% of Australians are against this deal going ahead including many QF shareholders. It may not mean much to you but it certainly does to me. Unfortunately the institutions hold the majority shares and quick profit will win the day. Sad day indeed.

The Board has a responsibility to shareholders to get the best deal. If they thought the offer represented the best returns to shareholders then they needed to accept the deal.

Well they have failed. This is not the best deal possible, $6.00/share would have been closer to the mark. But I wonder whether the shareholders best interests were considered when management was offered $110 million in exchange for their approval.

Clearly you have different views to the board and the sharemarket (eg valuing shares at $7).

Rubbish. Valuing the shares at $7.00 in an open market was not my idea but rather from many financial analysts.

I am not an expert but I have read every article on this takeover in the last week. It is not good news. The QF we know today will not be around in 5 years. Why do I care? Because it will leave a huge void similar to the AN collapse and I do not like the alternatives especially JQ.

Again I ask. Why and how will the current management deliver 20% returns to the prospective owners in the next 5 years. And if so, then why aren't they able to deliver 20% returns to the current shareholders? It isn't a huge injection of funds, the prospective owners do not have any additional funds. Or maybe the reason is that they will rip the company to shreds to make up the 80% borrowing, heavily gear it and then float back to the market.