QANTAS being taken over by Macquarie Bank..

[Dave Noble]

By the way the 3 or 4 people on AFF who are for this deal are very much in the minority. Over 85% of Australians are against this deal going ahead including many QF shareholders. It may not mean much to you but it certainly does to me. Unfortunately the institutions hold the majority shares and quick profit will win the day. Sad day indeed.

Over 85% are against it are they? Where is the evidence for this assertion

Dave

 

[simongr]

Well said.

Let's see how much support there is for the deal by some on this site, when it finally goes ahead - and they realise the Qantas they knew simply doesn't exist anymore.

I will move on to whatever replaces it. I dont fly Qantas because of some deep seated belief in the airline as a symbol of australia (although like a lot of airlines it does play to its country of origin in style, design and catering). I fly QF because they get me from A to B in comfort. If that changes then I will switch airlines. If that is accelerated because of the change in ownership then the new owners will lose or maybe even gain business.

You talk about the gutting of a once great airline - I think you might still be flying in the 50's. Airline travel is different now. Its more accessible, more frequent and on some levels special than it was. It is horrendously expenisve not to support an airline given the expectation of passengers in the air and at the airport. Businesses need capital to support the massive cost base and to access that needs a return. We cant run airlines as we used to - they cant be national treasures. if you want a symbol of australia look to the Anzac's or Uluru or a Koala or the dorught - dont look to a commercial business.

@JohnK - I dont understand why it would be best for everybody if this deal falls over. Who is the everybody? Not necessarily the shareholders, we have no idea of the impact on travellers and sadly the staff are going to lose out whatever happens. if the cost base is not competitive in management's eyes then outsourcing and offshoring will happen irrespective of ownership.

 

[Tooner]

That's a 20% Return on Equity. If you borrow 80% of the purchase price, sell off a few bits and bobs to reduce the debt while not impacting core earnings much, you will boost ROE.

Current management couldn't do this with a listed entity because the market would take fright if they loaded up with debt.

 

[dizey47]

Just saw on the news that the QF pilots are putting in $50,000 each to buy shares to try and block the sale. They are hoping to buy enough to get a say.

 

[simongr]

Over 85% are against it are they? Where is the evidence for this assertion

Dave

I assume some form a newspoll. Possibly with the question "Do you want your national carrier bought by overseas interests?"

How many of that 85% own shares in QF or even fly more than once a year. How many are impacted by the sale? How many of teh employees have detailed information on what impact the sale will have on them. Has anyone asked the JQ staff their thoughts about potentially being the primary carrier in Oz and the core business - I am sure they arent too upset...

 

[JohnK]

That's a 20% Return on Equity. If you borrow 80% of the purchase price, sell off a few bits and bobs to reduce the debt while not impacting core earnings much, you will boost ROE.

And here I was thinking that the selling point of the takeover was that it will be business as usual and we are not dicing the company to recoop our investment.

I seriously have to question the intentions of this offer as it was very carefully altered to avoid ACCC, FIRB and Fedeal government scrutiny.

 

[pacblue]

You talk about the gutting of a once great airline - I think you might still be flying in the 50's. We cant run airlines as we used to - they cant be national treasures. if you want a symbol of australia look to the Anzac's or Uluru or a Koala or the dorught - dont look to a commercial business.

You just don't get it do you ?

You are just a mouthpiece for economic rationalism - and are making me out to be some kind of over-the-hill sentamentalist.

You couldn't be further from the truth - I just don't want to see a great Australian brand destroyed.

It seems your credo is, as described by Michael Pusey in his book "Economic Rationalism in Canberra" :

"Forget about history and forget about national identity, culture and ‘society’ ... Don’t even think about public policy, national goals or nation-building. It’s all futile. Just get out of the way and let prices and market forces deliver their own economically rational solution."

Sums up your views to a tee really. Totally out of touch.

I am all for foreign investment in Qantas - but just not this kind.

 

[Dave Noble]

I assume some form a newspoll. Possibly with the question "Do you want your national carrier bought by overseas interests?"

How many of that 85% own shares in QF or even fly more than once a year. How many are impacted by the sale? How many of teh employees have detailed information on what impact the sale will have on them. Has anyone asked the JQ staff their thoughts about potentially being the primary carrier in Oz and the core business - I am sure they arent too upset...

Even if that was from a poll... 85% of respondents to a poll does not equate to 85% of all Australians

Dave

 

[simongr]

You just don't get it do you ?

Sums up your views to a tee really. Totally out of touch.

I am all for foreign investment in Qantas - but just not this kind.

Just a a couple of things. WHo am I out of touch with? The rest of the world? The business world who?

SO what kind of foreign investment would be acceptable? Which banks/equity firms/airlines should be allowed to invest in Qantas and under what agreements? If you believe in foreign investment why is this one not allowed?

 

[pacblue]

Just a a couple of things. WHo am I out of touch with? The rest of the world? The business world who?

Answer : All of the above.

SO what kind of foreign investment would be acceptable? Which banks/equity firms/airlines should be allowed to invest in Qantas and under what agreements? If you believe in foreign investment why is this one not allowed?

Answer : Any that doesn't involve private equity firms.

 

[Tooner]

SO what kind of foreign investment would be acceptable? Which banks/equity firms/airlines should be allowed to invest in Qantas and under what agreements? If you believe in foreign investment why is this one not allowed?

Well, the most recent airline to go broke here was AN, so does that mean NZ investors are out

 

[Yada Yada]

Even if that was from a poll... 85% of respondents to a poll does not equate to 85% of all Australians

I saw a SkyNews poll on the tube a day or two ago and it about 75% against. Now I know that such polls are unlikely to be representative, but if I was a betting man I'd say most Australians would not like to see Qantas sold off to a private equity outfit and therefore would be against this move.

As mentioned previously, QF continued to milk the "national carrier" and "spirit of Australia" concepts long after the govt divested itself of the company, so in a way they have helped promote the idea that there is some form of commitment to being fully Australian owned and operated and that that there is still public ownership. Great marketing idea. Not helpful now in terms of publicity.

 

[Dave Noble]

I saw a SkyNews poll on the tube a day or two ago and it about 75% against. Now I know that such polls are unlikely to be representative

Most tv polls are v unrepresentative. Only those with a strong view one way or other are ever likely to contact and respond to such polls. They typically have few responses from those who don't care one way or other and this also doesn't take into account the skewing that can occur by the actual question used when the pollster wants to get a particular result

Dave

 

[simongr]

I saw a SkyNews poll on the tube a day or two ago and it about 75% against. Now I know that such polls are unlikely to be representative, but if I was a betting man I'd say most Australians would not like to see Qantas sold off to a private equity outfit and therefore would be against this move.

I still fail to see why their views are relevant. They arent shareholders (I agree some probably are but not the majority) and they dont have full facts about the acquisition. I wonder how many of these ordinary australians are members of superanuation funds that are going to benefit from this transaction unknowingly.

 

[serfty]

I saw elsewhere that 75% of Qantas shares are owned by the top 20 largest shareholders. If all 20 decide to sell it will only require the holders of another 15% of the remaining shares to sell to make the Acquisition a reality.

 

[Yada Yada]

I still fail to see why their views are relevant. They arent shareholders (I agree some probably are but not the majority) and they dont have full facts about the acquisition. I wonder how many of these ordinary australians are members of superanuation funds that are going to benefit from this transaction unknowingly.

I'm not saying their views are relevant. All I'm saying is that QF has long promoted its "national carrier" image long after the govt sold the company, and while this probably helped their brand, it may now result in a bit of bad publicity because the general public may feel they are "losing" something they felt they owned.

You are quite right - the general public's views on this matter are not at all relevant. This is a commercial transaction and sentiment does not play a part. But it's an interesting side-show!

 

[Kiwi Flyer]

Well, the most recent airline to go broke here was AN, so does that mean NZ investors are out

Isn't Ozjet more recent? And australian owned?

 

[Kiwi Flyer]

Answer : Any that doesn't involve private equity firms.

So if Murdoch, for example, decided to buy Qantas, gut it and cut out that would be okay then? Hasn't something like that already happened - name of airline may have differed?

Private equity isnt necessarily better or worse than other ownership options, just different.

 

[SF&]

Macquarie Bank owns Sydney airport!

I can see it now: Qantas flights depart/arrive SYD ONLY, JQ for all connections to/from other lesser ports.

is it happening already int'lly

jst looking at a flght to hawaii on the way back it was jetstar no other option

i was lookin at 18mar going over back the 24mar

going over operated by qantas coming back jetstar

thru the qantas online booking

so what happens their

do i get the points my ow platinum baggage allowance etc etc

 

[Tooner]

Isn't Ozjet more recent? And australian owned?

Oww! Touche