Qantas Block Partner Earn on Competitor Routes

[Vic]

Reasonable point for sure. All we have is speculation and this forum is great at it

I guess QF may not have been given a choice in the matter - in respect that QR sets up QR/VA and puts in their stipulation regarding earn on QF domestic flights ONLY if on a QR marketed international flight itin. Sure, that's QR's choice to do and clearly driving the revenue to them. Probably designed for the routes that VA doesn't serve - so if you book, I don't know, Athens to Armidale on QR ATH-DOH-SYD and the only interline (and "partner") option is SYD-ARM, then yeah we'll let you earn because VA doesn't do it. OK.

I guess given QF's T&C have been updated some months AFTER QR/VA and the QR policy re QF domestic flights (again, I was unable to confirm when that change came in, or if it's always been a condition?) that it's reactionary to QR's move. Further QR's conditions are very specific, while QF's are generic, which to me is a coverall for this and other situations.

Which came first? chicken or the egg? well... only QFF can really answer imo.

I'm only laughing at the forum being good for speculation.

The strange part to me is why the need to put into QF T&Cs? I think the argument that QF cannot tell QR what points to give to QR loyalty customers is reasonable. (I have been trying to avoid entering that "heated" discussion). The condition in QF is unenforceable, really. Of course it helps that QR have a similar condition, but it is the QR condition that will give effect to the QF condition. (if that makes sense)

Sure all that payment stuff also makes sense; follow the money and all. But if it was only a QF condition QR would be perfectly entitiled to decide to wear the cost. That makes teh QF condition redundant, IMO.

But your example of Armidale is interesting. Since, I assume Virgin don't fly there, therefore a QR loyalty person would earn if they flew SYD-ARM as a standalone under the QF condition. (i think)

 

[RichardMEL]

I'm only laughing at the forum being good for speculation.

totally how I took it

The strange part to me is why the need to put into QF T&Cs? I think the argument that QF cannot tell QR what points to give to QR loyalty customers is reasonable. (I have been trying to avoid entering that "heated" discussion). The condition in QF is unenforceable, really. Of course it helps that QR have a similar condition, but it is the QR condition that will give effect to the QF condition. (if that makes sense)

Sure all that payment stuff also makes sense; follow the money and all. But if it was only a QF condition QR would be perfectly entitiled to decide to wear the cost. That makes teh QF condition redundant, IMO.

But your example of Armidale is interesting. Since, I assume Virgin don't fly there, therefore a QR loyalty person would earn if they flew SYD-ARM as a standalone under the QF condition. (i think)

Well, under this

A member of a oneworld Member Airline or Airline Partner loyalty program will not earn that program’s loyalty points or status credits on any Qantas domestic flight where the oneworld Member Airline or Airline Partner permits their program points or status credits to be earned directly or indirectly on any non-Qantas Group flight on the same domestic route (where that domestic flight does not form part of a Qantas marketed international itinerary).

Under the QF conditions I believe a single domestic trip SYD-ARM that is NOT part of an international trip would not fall under this condition, since VA (in this instance) do not fly the route. If, however, it was SYD-MEL it would, and in theory yeah a QR member would earn doing SYD-ARM, but not SYD-MEL as standalone flights - at least that is how I read it.

However, the QR member is also bound by:

Accrual on Qantas domestic flights are only eligible when they are in conjunction with an international flight marketed by either Qantas or Qatar Airways on the same ticket.

therefore neither of those example flights would earn avois or qpoints

only if they were on the end of a QR or QF international flight. Which oddly seems to mean I could earn avois etc on LAX-SYD-ARM or LAX-SYD-MEL or DOH-SYD-ARM(etc) but not just on the purely domestic sectors - if VA are on the same route or not.


So in this example, per my reading/understanding of the conditions, QFF is actually slightly more generous (!)

but the reality on majority of sectors is the same really.

I now note QR's website has a page for VA and there's no conditions at all that I can see. Indeed, QR coded VA operated flights gives avois and qpoints for status. Of course one can only book a QR codeshare on VA in conjunction with a QR international sector anyway, so that makes sense (eg: CBR-MEL-DOH-...)

So a standalone VA MEL-SYD would earn avios with QR no matter what.

ergo QR is pushing people to, obviously, fly with VA over QF - specially domestic Oz members of privilege club.

 

[RooFlyer]

Hi,
Slightly off topic but seems to show misalliance between Qantas and Qatar: I have been chasing Qantas status credits and FF points from three quarters of a flight from Brisbane to Roma via Doha with Qatar. One quarter of the flight, from Bris to Doha, was awarded, the other three legs were rejected. Twice from an online application. I went to FB and private messaged and was told to ring Frequent Flyers. I have not been able to get through to FF on the phone since October. Finally spoke to a human today who said ring Qatar. Who said it's not their problem. Seriously??? Is there an ombudsman for false and misleading claims in terms and conditions of loyalty operating programs?

Welcome to AFF @Paddio

So, your 4 flights were BNE-DOH, DOH-FCO, FCO-DOH and DOH-BNE on a single, regular paid ticket with your QFF number in the booking?? If so, as far as I can tell#, all sectors should earn QFF points and SCs, even in discount economy . This is what the QFF points calculator says for DOH-FCO:

# I'm sure others will check!



https://www.qantas.com/au/en/frequent-flyer/calculators.html#/

With your online points claim, did you submit a copy of the boarding pass? I must admit I've done that and been rejected and it was only on calling that I got the SCs etc awarded.

You need to call Qantas again - it is NOT a Qatar issue to fix. Unfortunately Qantas is known for having some pretty awful, badly trained telephone agents. Sounds like you got one. Keep trying and don't take "Call Qatar" for an answer. They can't award QFF points!

 

[RooFlyer]

ergo QR is pushing people to, obviously, fly with VA over QF - specially domestic Oz members of privilege club.

And, as we've seen above, in some rare agreement between the 2 airlines, QF is ALSO pushing people to fly VA over QF on certain routes/certain conditions, as they won't earn QFF points and SCs!

 

[RichardMEL]

Yes, the advice to call QR is ridiculous and not helpful. I groaned when I read that part. oy

I reckon 75% of issues for customers would largely go away if agents were trained properly and had all the tools they needed. Well no that would be 90+%

Things like this that make us facepalm and think this is QF kicking so many own goals in so many ways.....

 

[RichardMEL]

And, as we've seen above, in some rare agreement between the 2 airlines, QF is ALSO pushing people to fly VA over QF on certain routes/certain conditions, as they won't earn QFF points and SCs!

which again, for me, makes me wonder if this is QR putting their considerable weight on QF and not the other way around. I mean these changes benefit QR greatly. QF has no reason to do this that I can tell so why would they unless there was pressure exerted. Or who knows, maybe back when QF and QR signed a agreement there was a clause regarding other/further partners.

Again speculation to the 737 MAX 10, but I personally just can't see why QF would have pushed this of their own choice.

anyway. it is what it is (as they say)

 

[RooFlyer]

which again, for me, makes me wonder if this is QR putting their considerable weight on QF and not the other way around. I mean these changes benefit QR greatly. QF has no reason to do this that I can tell so why would they unless there was pressure exerted. Or who knows, maybe back when QF and QR signed a agreement there was a clause regarding other/further partners.

We can only enjoy speculating and striving to put ourselves in the shoes of the Good and the Great of the airline industry

But just as I've argued above that Qantas can't tell QR what their PC members can and can't earn in the PC scheme (again, the words were "won't earn"), QR would have a hard time forcing QF to change its T&Cs to insert a clause that is totally unenforceable and is made redundant by QR PC's own pre-existing T&Cs. Maybe the same talents that have permeated Qantas IT and their call centre training have seeped further into Mascot?

There's gotta be another angle to this.

 

[RichardMEL]

Totally agree. the QFF clause is odd and I definitely agree there's more to this than meets the eye seemingly. I also agree it makes zero sense QF telling another program what they can or can't provide to their members. My only real thought on that is that it's not meant to actually DO anything per se, but be a coverall and even a message to "partners" - weird place to have one, but yeah otherwise I am unsure.

 

[encryptededdy]

the other three legs were rejected

What was the stated reason for rejection? It usually states when you put in an online claim. Name not on manifest? Fare type not eligible?

 

[trippin_the_rift]

Fasten your seatbelt folks. My prediction:

QR to buy VA
QF leaves oneworld
VA joins oneworld

All the signs are there if you look hard enough.

Save this post.

Did you all bookmark my post from 9 months ago?

Flight row fuels Qatar Airways, Virgin Australia rumours

Several daily Operator News updates covering all Operator Route Network changes, strategic fleet developments and aircraft orders, start-ups and bankruptcies, mergers and acquisitions and partnerships and alliances.

www.ch-aviation.com

What repercussions might transpire in AUS after QR was denied access to increase available seats?

 

[kangarooflyer88]

Did you all bookmark my post from 9 months ago?

Flight row fuels Qatar Airways, Virgin Australia rumours

Several daily Operator News updates covering all Operator Route Network changes, strategic fleet developments and aircraft orders, start-ups and bankruptcies, mergers and acquisitions and partnerships and alliances.

www.ch-aviation.com

What repercussions might transpire in AUS after QR was denied access to increase available seats?

We will see what Uncle Alan and Qantas do in this regard. No doubt he will be pounding at Senator's doors demanding why OneWorld partner Qatar was turned away from adding more capacity as he is contractually obligated to do being a member of this cartel erm I mean alliance.

-RooFlyer88

 

[exceladdict]

Did you all bookmark my post from 9 months ago?

Flight row fuels Qatar Airways, Virgin Australia rumours

Several daily Operator News updates covering all Operator Route Network changes, strategic fleet developments and aircraft orders, start-ups and bankruptcies, mergers and acquisitions and partnerships and alliances.

www.ch-aviation.com

What repercussions might transpire in AUS after QR was denied access to increase available seats?

Qf do seem to have built a number of non ow partnerships lately, and VA's UA, AC, SQ links could be easily replaced under new ownership.

Qf to join *A, skyteam or stay independent?

Qf/aa remains strong though so could be a problem? Not that outside or cross-alliance partnerships don't already exist.

VFF points likely become avios - and hopefully transferable to BA, etc... Would be a major threat to QFF if we could more easily earn avios via flybuys, etc.

 

[oz_mark]

We will see what Uncle Alan and Qantas do in this regard. No doubt he will be pounding at Senator's doors demanding why OneWorld partner Qatar was turned away from adding more capacity as he is contractually obligated to do being a member of this cartel erm I mean alliance.

I doubt he has any such contractual obligations

 

[jase05]

Did you all bookmark my post from 9 months ago?

Flight row fuels Qatar Airways, Virgin Australia rumours

Several daily Operator News updates covering all Operator Route Network changes, strategic fleet developments and aircraft orders, start-ups and bankruptcies, mergers and acquisitions and partnerships and alliances.

www.ch-aviation.com

What repercussions might transpire in AUS after QR was denied access to increase available seats?

As nice as it would be I’m not sure QR will get involved and in any case it looks as though Bain aren’t in any great hurry to float VA

 

[AIRwin]

Fasten your seatbelt folks. My prediction:

QR to buy VA
QF leaves oneworld
VA joins oneworld

All the signs are there if you look hard enough.

Save this post.

Found the post you were referring to

 

[oz_mark]

Found the post you were referring to

Item 1 Tick.

 

[Kerrodt]

Item 2 on the list will be a bombshell if it actually happens. Where else would they go?

 

[Danger]

Item 1 Tick.

Notwithstanding the fact the proposal has a couple of regulatory hurdles, I think it's a long bow to draw to say a 25% stake would satisfy the "buy VA" part.

 

[sudoer]

Item 2 on the list will be a bombshell if it actually happens. Where else would they go?

SkyTeam, or try to start a 4th alliance with EK?