Qantas boosts international capacity, wet lease Finnair aircraft

[serfty]

1. Are the aircraft to be wetleased operating now?

2. If yes, are the FA crew hired ex Asia (sorry! "From cheaper labour markets" )?

3. If again yes, why do new crew need to be hired?

4. If no to 1) then what happened too the old FA crew?

Have a look at post #72 of this thread from back in May. (and following posts)

Qantas boosts international capacity, wet lease Finnair aircraft

NRT lounge will join HKG in reopening? The NRT airport map suggests that the old QF lounge space has been taken over by another lounge. https://www.narita-airport.jp/files/official_guide_t2_all_en.pdf

www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au

 

[Princess Fiona]

Have a look at post #72 of this thread from back in May. (and following posts)

Qantas boosts international capacity, wet lease Finnair aircraft

NRT lounge will join HKG in reopening? The NRT airport map suggests that the old QF lounge space has been taken over by another lounge. https://www.narita-airport.jp/files/official_guide_t2_all_en.pdf

www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au

I don’t know why any of this is a surprise to anyone reading this thread since it started ?

We were discussing the fact that AY already has contract crew in SIN and BKK a long time ago and that it would be these crew on the wet lease for QF.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Well, yes, that could be done. Its one option for sure. And there are plenty of arguments to justify it, both ethically and commercially.

But would the cost to Qantas be higher or lower than the option that seems to have been chosen? And how would that cost difference play out in terms of the airfares paid by you and me as the traveling customers? And what other costs would need to be cut to compete with some other airlines when considering the operating cost-base for the competition on the routes?

Many Australians are willing to pay the Qantas "tax" for airfares because of their "loyalty" to the airline, perceived service offered, or Aussie patriotism. But there comes a point where many of us decide the fare cost difference does not warrant the perceived benefits of supporting "our" airline. Many abandoned the loyalty shackles years ago, while some hold strong to the past or to the present religion of FF status or points balances.

One thing is for certain, most business decisions (not just this one from Qantas) are based in financial outcomes. How those outcomes are measured may vary, but overall its financial results that drive most of the decisions for big business.

I would expect the wet lease arrangements to be the same as QF costs. Airfares would be the same. I’m not expecting the AY operating flights to come cheaper than the equivalent QF service.

One might estimate that for everything other than wages, the cost of an Aussie based crew should be cheaper? No hotel costs in Australia for the Aussie crew, no expensive coach transfers, no expensive daily meal allowance. By comparison an Aussie crew would have cheaper ground transportation in Asia, cheaper hotels, and meals would be cheaper.

 

[NM]

I would expect the wet lease arrangements to be the same as QF costs. Airfares would be the same. I’m not expecting the AY operating flights to come cheaper than the equivalent QF service.

Then there may not be much incentive for Qantas to enter the arrangement

One might estimate that for everything other than wages, the cost of an Aussie based crew should be cheaper? No hotel costs in Australia for the Aussie crew, no expensive coach transfers, no expensive daily meal allowance. By comparison an Aussie crew would have cheaper ground transportation in Asia, cheaper hotels, and meals would be cheaper.

Not necessarily. Aussie-based crew are potentially entitled to higher allowances (as negotiated between unions and employer over many years) for an overnight stay outside Australia than a foreign crew are entitled to receive for an overnight stay in Australia. I would not assume ground transportation, hotels and allowances are cheaper for Aussie crews staying in Singapore, Hong Kong etc. than foreign crews staying in Sydney as there could be quite different agreements in place regarding location and quality of accommodation and payments for meals allowances and other entitlements.

I know my employee and previous employers have very different policies for accommodation and allowances for staff traveling from different counties, where two people from different countries tarveling for the same project to the same country receive very different benefits and allowances. They work for the same company, but receive different benefits based on their country of residence even when traveling to the same city.

I am not saying this is right. I am not defending the practice. But it is reality and a factor considered in business decisions.

 

[CaptJCool]

Although doesn't include Singapore which is the one country that's relevant to this discussion.

I'd imagine it would be far closer to Australia than it is to Thailand.

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appears to be around A$1,000 per week so $25 per hour (40 hour work week)
but how likely given what commentary has said, is it just 40 hours

 

[ChrisMars]

So, how good are those AY J non-reclining seats? Anyone?

 

[Princess Fiona]

So, how good are those AY J non-reclining seats? Anyone?

They are absolutely brilliant!!!!
Flown quite a few long hauls on them and I’d say it’s my favorite business class seat.

 

[RooFlyer]

Have a look at post #72 of this thread from back in May. (and following posts)

Qantas boosts international capacity, wet lease Finnair aircraft

NRT lounge will join HKG in reopening? The NRT airport map suggests that the old QF lounge space has been taken over by another lounge. https://www.narita-airport.jp/files/official_guide_t2_all_en.pdf

www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au

OK, but I don't think any of that goes to

1. Are the aircraft to be wetleased operating now?

You'd have to assume not, else they wouldn't need new recruiting. So why not re-hire the former crew, or as many as still available through the labour-hire firm?

 

[OATEK]

OK, but I don't think any of that goes to



You'd have to assume not, else they wouldn't need new recruiting. So why not re-hire the former crew, or as many as still available through the labour-hire firm?

There has been no mention of waiting for new aircraft for the wet lease, but they could have been firstly parked during covid, and then subject to refit a bit like the QF A380s.

There were days when AY had 2 flights HEL-HKG-HEL pre-covid. Not sure how many flights going in to HKG now, but my sense is they had the spare aircraft capacity.

However, the crews needed for the extra cycles SIN-SYD-SIN were not necessarily already or previously based in SIN, but say in HKG or other locations and would not be available, hence recruitment.

The Ukraine war has been a double whammy for AY, given they have to fly a long way around to get the Asian ports, and I expect that they have a number of spare aircraft they would love to be earning for them.

 

[tdimdad]

The Ukraine war has been a double whammy for AY, given they have to fly a long way around to get the Asian ports, and I expect that they have a number of spare aircraft they would love to be earning for them.

And this is why AY has been doing all these new arrangements: some QR European routes, long-hauls from ARN, and the wet lease to QF is another opportunity to increase the utilisation of the fleet.

They have less traffic to Asia given how expensive it now is for them and they've also lost the geographical advantage (especially for the Japan / China routes). While they now have more traffic to the US, there's still more they could fly. That's why they have tried to be resourceful in filling gaps.

 

[SeatBackForward]

There were days when AY had 2 flights HEL-HKG-HEL pre-covid. Not sure how many flights going in to HKG now, but my sense is they had the spare aircraft capacity.

Wasn't there a time they even did HEL>BKK>SIN ?

 

[pauly7]

I don’t know why any of this is a surprise to anyone reading this thread since it started ?

We were discussing the fact that AY already has contract crew in SIN and BKK a long time ago and that it would be these crew on the wet lease for QF.

Yes… finally someone said it

I think some people have missed a beat (or a few) here… Or intentionally missed it to suit their viewpoint on the world. Who knows.

 

[Rangalad]

Wasn't there a time they even did HEL>BKK>SIN ?

Yes.
Flew BKK/SIN/BKK v.v several times.

 

[jakeseven7]

Yes.
Flew BKK/SIN/BKK v.v several times.

Same, also by mistake (long story) but I think it was the older product.

 

[oz_mark]

I don’t know why any of this is a surprise to anyone reading this thread since it started ?

We were discussing the fact that AY already has contract crew in SIN and BKK a long time ago and that it would be these crew on the wet lease for QF.

Indeed. Finnair were quite explicit about how it was going to work

News | Finnair

company.finnair.com

During the wet lease period, the aircraft will be deployed in Qantas’ network on routes from Sydney and Singapore as well as Sydney and Bangkok. Finnair pilots will fly scheduled Finnair flights from Helsinki to Singapore and from Helsinki to Bangkok; then, they will continue flying scheduled Qantas flights between Singapore, Bangkok and Sydney before returning to their home base in Helsinki. The cabin crew are provided by Finnair partners based in Singapore and Bangkok, and the aircraft maintenance is performed by Finnair partners at the Qantas destinations. Finnair has secured sufficient pilot resources to match its fleet size, including the aircraft leased to Qantas. The Qantas agreement does not impact the number of cabin crew at Finnair, as they are fully deployed in other operations.

 

[ChrisMars]

They are absolutely brilliant!!!!
Flown quite a few long hauls on them and I’d say it’s my favorite business class seat.

That s great to hear! Wondering what others think about this non reclining J. I heard some like it, some hate it. Anyone else tried it and had mix feeling?

 

[jrfsp]

That s great to hear! Wondering what others think about this non reclining J. I heard some like it, some hate it. Anyone else tried it and had mix feeling?

Definitely a vegemite / marmite product.

I personally wasnt a fan. I like being able to control the recline and wasnt able to sit in a semi reclined position which i prefer.

 

[ausfox]

I have expressed my dislike of this seat some time ago. It does not suit my 187cm frame.

 

[jase05]

I have expressed my dislike of this seat some time ago. It does not suit my 187cm frame.

I feel like I’m the only person on AFF who hasn’t flown in the “new” seats

 

[SYD]

I feel like I’m the only person on AFF who hasn’t flown in the “new” seats

I have a QF292 flight in Nov. It will be my first but being o/n, I’ll probably sleep most of the way. QF291 would be a good option to test drive the seat on a “day flight”. Couldn’t be any worse than SQ “fold over” J seats.