Qantas Business class Experiences (non F&B)

[justinbrett]

completely irrelevant, but expected comment from a qantas apologist

Are you always this serious? Lighten up...

 

[TheInsider]

Now you're just going around in circles and being argumentative.

As an "insider" the optics of you defending/denying this behaviour is not good...

Soon you'll be calling me a Qantas apologist!

If you hate so many things about Qantas or whoever you travel, why keep travelling with them? It may be better for your own mental health to give it up.

 

[justinbrett]

Soon you'll be calling me a Qantas apologist!

If you hate so many things about Qantas or whoever you travel, why keep travelling with them? It may be better for your own mental health to give it up.

Ad Hominem. It says a lot when instead of mounting a counter argument they just reach for the lazy insults.

Also - ring the call bell if you're not being served. I'm not afraid to (had pretty slack service on an AS flight earlier in the year and did this). At very least they'll take the hint.

Many of the true QF frequent flyers here have confirmed they've never seen this happen - I'm sure it has happened - but it's obviously not the norm. May just as likely happen on VA as well.

 

[dk4]

Also - ring the call bell if you're not being served.

ROFL - on Qantas!? - the "ignore button" as we know it on AFF

 

[Vic]

Ad Hominem. It says a lot when instead of mounting a counter argument they just reach for the lazy insults.

Also - ring the call bell if you're not being served. I'm not afraid to (had pretty slack service on an AS flight earlier in the year and did this). At very least they'll take the hint.

Many of the true QF frequent flyers here have confirmed they've never seen this happen - I'm sure it has happened - but it's obviously not the norm. May just as likely happen on VA as well.

Well yes, exactly. it's lazy to just go around in circles and ignore what was already clearly stated, or make illogical analogies about supermarket checkouts, rather than mounting a counter-argument.

Or for that matter to label someone as a "hater" with mental health problems rather than mount a counter argument. Ad hominem indeed.
Please @TheInsider feel free to quote anywhere where I've said I hate qantas.

I gotta say if you feel that my interpretation of your approach to Qantas over numerous posts in numerous threads is an insult, that probably reflects more on you. I certainly didn't mean it as an insult, it's just an observation of the theme of your contributions.

true qantas frequent flyers - yeah, I've only been qantas platinum for over 10 years, and virgin for like whatever 7 years. But hey, clearly you know everything about me. I guess all those status extensions don't count...

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Soon you'll be calling me a Qantas apologist!

If you hate so many things about Qantas or whoever you travel, why keep travelling with them? It may be better for your own mental health to give it up.

If only it was that easy! They get plenty of my tax payer dollars even if I don’t fly. So i might as well have a say!

 

[justinbrett]

Well yes, exactly. it's lazy to just go around in circles and ignore what was already clearly stated, or make illogical analogies about supermarket checkouts, rather than mounting a counter-argument.

Or for that matter to label someone as a "hater" with mental health problems rather than mount a counter argument. Ad hominem indeed.
Please @TheInsider feel free to quote anywhere where I've said I hate qantas.

I gotta say if you feel that my interpretation of your approach to Qantas over numerous posts in numerous threads is an insult, that probably reflects more on you. I certainly didn't mean it as an insult, it's just an observation of the theme of your contributions.

true qantas frequent flyers - yeah, I've only been qantas platinum of over 10 years, and virgin for like whatever 7 years. But hey, clearly you know everything about me.

Well my point about Woolworths - other than taking the opportunity for a light-hearted observation which was obviously lost on you, is that QF staff on personal travel (as opposed to duty travel) are just as entitled to service as anyone else. I don't care that they get a discount. I don't expect Woolies employees receiving a discount to go behind other customers. And yes, that might mean the FA knows the staff member and has a chat. You know what? I've seen FAs recognise frequent flyers and had lengthy chats. Chill out - it's human nature.

I don't blindly follow Qantas. I criticise them when it's due (made a post this week based on my last lounge experience). I hold status with both QF & VA, and I earn more than 50% of my QF SCs on oneworld airlines. I fly JQ more than mainline QF domestic living in NTL (though increasingly QLK now we have jet services). QF wasn't my first airline, I used to fly Ansett & ANZ until Ansett went bankrupt.

But there's a toxic culture on here that when anyone interrupts a QF pile on with some objectivity, you get cast aside as a QF apologist. The DRW displaced threshold was a good example of that. Anybody stepping outside of the groupthink gets shot down.

Anyway, I've got thick skin - and I've noticed most of the actual QF frequent flyers rarely comment on these QF threads anymore (but can be found elsewhere on AFF) - that says a lot. As @jakeseven7 pointed out recently the dynamic on AFF has changed in the last few years and not for the better.

 

[GrahamBRI]

So I dispute the earlier comment suggesting staff are offered meals first also.

Not sure I want to enter this thread........ but I am stuck by flood waters in South East Qld and after emptying my my pool a dozen times, I am in need of a heap of salt, so if there is enough to go around, I am happy to be given some? I was on QF1906 on 2 May and a Qantas uniformed passenger in J, was served first (tray and meal). Flight had one spare seat in J, so I assume insufficient selection of meals if all passengers picked the same...... the flight attendant did chat to the uniformed passenger for what felt like 15 minutes (but I acknowledge was probably only 5 minutes), prior to moving onto other passengers. Myself and partner (in J) did get the meal we wanted (and it was good).

I must admit though, the most enjoyable part of travelling in J is the service and that is what I tend to focus on. The approach that uniformed representatives of any company would not aim to market their brand at all times (whether on duty or not) and endeavor to demonstrate their service to their customers at all times was a surprise to me. The service of food and beverage is key to a customers experience and the flight attendants should be very aware of the minor details that their customers may focus on, so getting that first service impression bang on, without delay, allows for those minor indiscretions later in the flight to be missed or forgotten.

What is the right answer here....... listen to your customers, listen to your staff, manage the optics of your brand for your shareholders....... and make a considered call. I am thinking that all three of these are under pressure at the moment....... so speak less and listen harder!

(I acknowledge that this example was on an Alliance Airlines service operated for Qantas)

 

[justinbrett]

Not sure I want to enter this thread........ but I am stuck by flood waters in South East Qld and after emptying my my pool a dozen times, I am in need of a heap of salt, so if there is enough to go around, I am happy to be given some? I was on QF1906 on 2 May and a Qantas uniformed passenger in J, was served first (tray and meal). Flight had one spare seat in J, so I assume insufficient selection of meals if all passengers picked the same...... the flight attendant did chat to the uniformed passenger for what felt like 15 minutes (but I acknowledge was probably only 5 minutes), prior to moving onto other passengers. Myself and partner (in J) did get the meal we wanted (and it was good).

I must admit though, the most enjoyable part of travelling in J is the service and that is what I tend to focus on. The approach that uniformed representatives of any company would not aim to market their brand at all times (whether on duty or not) and endeavor to demonstrate their service to their customers at all times was a surprise to me. The service of food and beverage is key to a customers experience and the flight attendants should be very aware of the minor details that their customers may focus on, so getting that first service impression bang on, without delay, allows for those minor indiscretions later in the flight to be missed or forgotten.

What is the right answer here....... listen to your customers, listen to your staff, manage the optics of your brand for your shareholders....... and make a considered call. I am thinking that all three of these are under pressure at the moment....... so speak less and listen harder!

(I acknowledge that this example was on an Alliance Airlines service operated for Qantas)

Having flown 3x Alliance operated QF flights in J the last month I definitely agree their staff are slow. The first two were OK because the cabin was only half full but the most recent was full. She was far too chatty with all the pax, they didn’t have to be a pilot. It’s a very short flight (BNE-NTL) to do a hot meal service in J - so they do need to step on it I think.

I give them some latitude as many of them are new to this, and as I posted previously, one commented she wasn’t a trained bartender after they brought back spirits.

 

[jpp42]

one commented she wasn’t a trained bartender after they brought back spirits.

I thought part of the "service" part of F/A training covered how to serve the spirits that they offer on board?

(And does this mean that spirits are finally available in DOM J ?)

 

[justinbrett]

I thought part of the "service" part of F/A training covered how to serve the spirits that they offer on board?

(And does this mean that spirits are finally available in DOM J ?)

Yes they are now available (see other thread).

Alliance have never had business class whilst Qantas have offered spirits in J until now.

I’m sure they were trained on their course but that may have been years ago.

Anyway it’s not hard - G&T - recipe is in the name!

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Anyway, I've got thick skin - and I've noticed most of the actual QF frequent flyers rarely comment on these QF threads anymore (but can be found elsewhere on AFF) - that says a lot. As @jakeseven7 pointed out recently the dynamic on AFF has changed in the last few years and not for the better.

I don’t believe this is entirely true. The culture of AFF has been to robustly review all airlines and airline offerings… Avianca and Lifemiles gets bad press as does eurobusiness, US airlines’ domestic catering and service, US international service, Garuda, various chinese carriers, you name it. Qantas happens to have the market share in Australia and will get proportionately more comment.

There are many people joining AFF for advice, I don’t see a problem highlighting problems. Someone on double SCs enjoying salt and pepper squid on an award seat that has been specially released for them may not be representative of the ‘average’ experience.

 

[justinbrett]

I don’t believe this is entirely true. The culture of AFF has been to robustly review all airlines and airline offerings… Avianca and Lifemiles gets bad press as does eurobusiness, US airlines’ domestic catering and service, US international service, Garuda, various chinese carriers, you name it. Qantas happens to have the market share in Australia and will get proportionately more comment.

There are many people joining AFF for advice, I don’t see a problem highlighting problems. Someone on double SCs enjoying salt and pepper squid on an award seat that has been specially released for them may not be representative of the ‘average’ experience.

I’ve gone no problems debating issues either, but when - apparently the majority - base their arguments on personal attacks and not objective criticism, probably haven’t set foot on a red tail this side of the Millenium - then I do. They base their criticism on twitter or Guardian articles - or even worse - “friends”.

Just look at how many threads have been hijacked by the same crowd (what about the call centre? The lost bags? The outsourcing?) regardless of the topic on hand. It’s fairly rare to see someone debate the issue objectively.

All credit to you however - you are one of the select few that I’ve seen who restrain from the pile on and call out issues when appropriate but also bring valid objectivitiy to the argument. Sadly there’s not many others like you.

 

[RichardMEL]

Regarding what Vic said back on page 1 about Human Nature. I tend to agree in respect that it is naive to think, or assume, that it NEVER happens (even though I wrote I've never seen it happen myself, doesn't mean that it doesn't of course).. and as others have pointed out it could just be good meal management by the CSM, or there's enough or whatever.

While I hardly eat meals on QFd these days I actually don't care if they do or don't excepting the case if my, or another paying pax, cannot have their choice. And I am sure that has happened.. but probably not very often.

and while I'm no insider (nor do I work for PR ) it could even be certain situations for employees on positive space (company) travel vs standby travel that give (some) a certain priority. For example I know at at least one US legacy carrier that senior company officers had the boarding priority to take J/F seats - I mean CEO/VP type level - when on company business. However staff on standby travel had lower BP than standby customer pax and of course upgrades to a premium cabin by revenue customer pax.

Really though when it comes to such things I think it's not great to write in absolutes because we always know of exceptions. I did write earlier that I dispute the original report, but I suppose I meant that I dispute that it's a wide ranging thing, because in hundreds of QFd J flights I have not seen it personally (or possibly not noticed I guess!) so I while I do not think it is widespread, it obviously probably does happen from time to time - maybe with reasonable reason - and maybe unfairly so.

 

[Vic]

But there's a toxic culture on here that when anyone interrupts a QF pile on with some objectivity, you get cast aside as a QF apologist. The DRW displaced threshold was a good example of that. Anybody stepping outside of the groupthink gets shot down.

Anyway, I've got thick skin - and I've noticed most of the actual QF frequent flyers rarely comment on these QF threads anymore (but can be found elsewhere on AFF) - that says a lot. As @jakeseven7 pointed out recently the dynamic on AFF has changed in the last few years and not for the better.

More likely the dynamic has changed because anyone saying anything negative gets jumped on as we've seen in this thread. More likely they just can't be bothered dealing with the pejorative comments form the fanbois.

If you think I haven't step on a qantas flight, you're sadly mistaken. But then the fact you want to try to make this inference just proves my point in the first paragraph. Belittling and derogatory comments by the 'faithful' against anyone who criticises Qantas is likely why people don't comment. I see more group think in the qantas award junkies who never pay real $$$ for business, and can't countenance the possibility that Qantas isn't perfect.

If you wish to reflect on toxic culture, perhaps reflect on your lack of objectivity in attacking me...

BTW I understood when you were trying to say with your analogy about supermarkets, I just think it is illogical and irrelevant, I don't have to pay $1200 to stand in the check out queue...
A distraction from the fact that Qantas can, and does, fail in their service sometimes.

 

[RooFlyer]

But there's a toxic culture on here that when anyone interrupts a QF pile on with some objectivity, you get cast aside as a QF apologist. The DRW displaced threshold was a good example of that. Anybody stepping outside of the groupthink gets shot down.

Oh. 'toxic culture'. The lazy, trendy expression to dismiss a group that a person can't be bothered debating on the merits.

As for Qantas pile-ons - yes, absolutely, because the airline's service delivery over the past 2 months is simply appalling - worse than I'd ever expect from the likes of JetStar. Yet Qantas still charges premium fares. No longer the odd case here and there, but stacks of them, week in and week out. This is a frequent flyer forum. Its the place where we raise and discuss these sorts of things. Its not that anyone stepping outside the 'groupthink' (another lazy, trendy dismissive expression), gets shot down, its the arguments presented:

"I had good service/meal/bag delivery when I flew with them this week"
"The catering isn't outsourced, it was simply sold to EK"
"If you don' like it, why fly it"
dismisses contra arguments as "rants"

... are weak and don't excuse or explain the appalling state Qantas has been allowed to degenerate into. Like you have repeated some lines over and over again, let me repeat some of mine to reiterate what the issues actually are:

* Alan Joyce forcefully called for the borders to be opened - he got what he asked for but obviously hadn't invested in preparing for it

* The effects of covid on staffing were entirely predictable, if not at the very start of opening, then a couple of months in

* Contractors (and airports) should have been on notice to ensure they had back-ups to ensure as much as possible regular or contracted service to the airline, or necessary airport services such as security. They knew that Easter would be a crush - it always is, and they had the forward bookings to prove it! I know you can't train security overnight, but again, staff shortages were a thing months before Easter.

* Qantas should have had back up plans in case the contractor didn't deliver (such as non perishable meals on hand at major hubs). Even if the pax have to pick them up at the gate!! to avoid any contractual clash

* The call centre - it was bad before covid (check the thread), but now - is there any doubt that the SA call centre especially simply hangs up on people? Has been for a long time? That the wait times can be 10s of hours spread over several calls, hung up on?

* The web site has been appalling for years, pre covid (ie in comparison with other major carriers) - no investment. The fact that 'work experience kids' run the web site has been a running joke here for many years.

.. and they still charge the max!

Look at my handle here: RooFlyer. I used to be a rusted on fan. But that changed some years ago when I got more exposed to the likes of QR, SQ and CX. For my most recent OW RTW trips I didn't even get the ticket on Qantas paper any more to avoid the absurd fuel fines and carrier charges. Still earned enough on an annual DONE4 to stay QF Plat, OW Emerald (the Qantas First lounge in Sydney is nice), but even started to fly VirginMk1 domestically, on price and timing from/to HBA.

Finally, if nothing else, take this on board - its those of us who truly like flying the major Australian airline - love hearing the Aussie accents when we board at LHR, love the safety record, love the Australian network etc - who will cry loudest and longest (and rant most ) at its demise. We are the flyers who are trying not to let the Qantas management get away with their abysmal performance, but to get things back to where they were, so we can fly with them again without the worry that we are paying max for a glass of water and probably no bags at the other end; hours on the phone, get hung up on etc etc.. When tripe is served at what touts itself as a Michelin 3 hat joint, I'll cry tripe every time!

There, that feels better

 

[justinbrett]

Oh. 'toxic culture'. The lazy, trendy expression to dismiss a group that a person can't be bothered debating on the merits.

As for Qantas pile-ons - yes, absolutely, because the airline's service delivery over the past 2 months is simply appalling - worse than I'd ever expect from the likes of JetStar. Yet Qantas still charges premium fares. No longer the odd case here and there, but stacks of them, week in and week out. This is a frequent flyer forum. Its the place where we raise and discuss these sorts of things. Its not that anyone stepping outside the 'groupthink' (another lazy, trendy dismissive expression), gets shot down, its the arguments presented:

"I had good service/meal/bag delivery when I flew with them this week"
"The catering isn't outsourced, it was simply sold to EK"
"If you don' like it, why fly it"
dismisses contra arguments as "rants"

... are weak and don't excuse or explain the appalling state Qantas has been allowed to degenerate into. Like you have repeated some lines over and over again, let me repeat some of mine to reiterate what the issues actually are:

* Alan Joyce forcefully called for the borders to be opened - he got what he asked for but obviously hadn't invested in preparing for it

* The effects of covid on staffing were entirely predictable, if not at the very start of opening, then a couple of months in

* Contractors (and airports) should have been on notice to ensure they had back-ups to ensure as much as possible regular or contracted service to the airline, or necessary airport services such as security. They knew that Easter would be a crush - it always is, and they had the forward bookings to prove it! I know you can't train security overnight, but again, staff shortages were a thing months before Easter.

* Qantas should have had back up plans in case the contractor didn't deliver (such as non perishable meals on hand at major hubs). Even if the pax have to pick them up at the gate!! to avoid any contractual clash

* The call centre - it was bad before covid (check the thread), but now - is there any doubt that the SA call centre especially simply hangs up on people? Has been for a long time? That the wait times can be 10s of hours spread over several calls, hung up on?

* The web site has been appalling for years, pre covid (ie in comparison with other major carriers) - no investment. The fact that 'work experience kids' run the web site has been a running joke here for many years.

.. and they still charge the max!

Look at my handle here: RooFlyer. I used to be a rusted on fan. But that changed some years ago when I got more exposed to the likes of QR, SQ and CX. For my most recent OW RTW trips I didn't even get the ticket on Qantas paper any more to avoid the absurd fuel fines and carrier charges. Still earned enough on an annual DONE4 to stay QF Plat, OW Emerald (the Qantas First lounge in Sydney is nice), but even started to fly VirginMk1 domestically, on price and timing from/to HBA.

Finally, if nothing else, take this on board - its those of us who truly like flying the major Australian airline - love hearing the Aussie accents when we board at LHR, love the safety record, love the Australian network etc - who will cry loudest and longest (and rant most ) at its demise. We are the flyers who are trying not to let the Qantas management get away with their abysmal performance, but to get things back to where they were, so we can fly with them again without the worry that we are paying max for a glass of water and probably no bags at the other end; hours on the phone, get hung up on etc etc.. When tripe is served at what touts itself as a Michelin 3 hat joint, I'll cry tripe every time!

There, that feels better

And right there is the problem. You are saying my opinion doesn't matter because it doesn't meet your view of the airline. You insist on a view that everything is bad and nothing is good. As someone who actually does fly QF, I can't report that yes - my call to the call centre was picked up quickly. My bag was delivered. My meal was served. Am I saying those things aren't a problem to anyone? No. Am I saying everything is perfect? Certainly not, and if you read other posts of mine you would know that I call out QF when I have cause to (even got a quote in the latest AFF article). Simply bringing balance with my own experience which is what AFF is for. You can joke about toxic culture all you like, but if posting something positive about QF that's different to the groupthink results in getting shot down as a "Qantas Apologist" - just who can't be bothered debating on merits?

The rants come from the same group of people who bring up the same unrelated talking points in every single thread. We can't even discuss the acquisition of a new aircraft without the conversation going off on a tangent of people complaining the FAs are too chatty.

 

[RooFlyer]

You insist on a view that everything is bad and nothing is good

Except the bits about the friendly accents on board overseas, the First lounge in Sydney, the Qantas safety record and the Australian network . Oh, and I'll add that the business class service and meals out of Hobart to Melbourne are historically excellent. QP in Hobart is a broom closet and a joke (oops, sorry, - that's nothing new).

As someone who actually does fly QF,

Yeah, I fly them too. A lot before 'opening up' (Nov last year), only when I have to right now (scared off) but in Aug/Sept/Oct I'm in major J burning points mode. I take your point about unrelated threads veering to the same issues but I guess on a frequent flyer forum, that's what is on peoples minds. Qantas' service, call centre etc performance IS the major issue in Australian aviation at the moment.

 

[flydoc]

Having flown 3x Alliance operated QF flights in J the last month I definitely agree their staff are slow. The first two were OK because the cabin was only half full but the most recent was full. She was far too chatty with all the pax, they didn’t have to be a pilot. It’s a very short flight (BNE-NTL) to do a hot meal service in J - so they do need to step on it I think.

I give them some latitude as many of them are new to this, and as I posted previously, one commented she wasn’t a trained bartender after they brought back spirits.

Friendly efficient service from Lauren the CSM on the QQ operated QF 1960 yesterday. Full flight and was op-upped to J as Y lacked capacity due to multiple unserviceable seats. Requested she offer the pax who were meant to be in J their choice of meal first (filled focaccia vs salad bowl). Ended up with the focaccia myself and a glass of red and had a chat with the uniformed QF engineer next to me in 2F who was flying down to cover ASP for the day.
Sample size = 1 but no complaints. And fully expect to be back to the cheddar and biscuits in Y next week

 

[OATEK]

Our flights on QF1 (Mar 22) and QF2 (Apr 22) on the 787 were very good. Staff attentive, meal preference available. Pyjamas & amenities kit delivered on QF1, but not on QF2. End of the world, no, but annoying after paying through the nose, yes. Overall, for our first post-covid disruption trip, we were very happy with how we were looked after.