Qantas business class is full of staff!!!

[wallacej]

Well that kind of statement is guaranteed to get an old thread from Dec 04 restarted, and a sure fire way of getting off topic real quick.

I would hope that most of the statements made are not true. I would hate to think that the work force is given business class seats over a passenger. Lets not forget who the more important people are here....the customer.

 

[serfty]

...I would hate to think that the work force is given business class seats over a passenger. Lets not forget who the more important people are here....the customer. ...

Well, actually, the Qantas work force IS given business class seats over a Passenger in some circumstances.

It was some time ago, but a year after this thread was started that I was travelling as part of a DONE4 from MEL to PER on a Friday evening.

The day before the flight a 333 was subbed for a 332 on the flight I was booked in. It had been showing J0 and this sub reduced the number of J seats from 38 to 30. (Qantas called me and asked if I could take an earlier flight - I declined the offer [What? Give up a Skybed? :shock: ]).

Anyway boarding was delayed and when we did board I found myself sitting in 5J (I was SG back then) with an empty 5K beside me. Every other J seat was taken. Boarding was delayed another 20 minute before a Qantas FA came on and took the empty seat beside me. The flight had been waiting for her.

Conversing with her during the transcon flight it turns out she had been due to finish up her 'shift' in PER earlier that day. However at late notice she had to take a 73H as CSM to MEL.

On arrival in MEL she was "out of hours" and by the terms of her standard employment contract, Qantas had to "dead-head" her back to PER - In J.

 

[Reggie]

I would hate to think that the work force is given business class seats over a passenger. Lets not forget who the more important people are here....the customer.

Well you are going to hate this then. Another pax, my wife and I were all downgraded from J to Y at the boarding gate in SYD for a PER flight with no notice. Basically the boarding passes were rejected by the scanner. As we were being given our new econmy boarding pass we found out our J seats had been given to 3 maintenance engineers being flown to Perth to fix an aircraft problem and their award said they had to fly business class.

No appologies, no offer of compensation or refund.

 

[simongr]

Did you follow up re refund? You paid for J (cash or award) so should get a refund of the difference surely?

 

[JohnK]

....As we were being given our new econmy boarding pass we found out our J seats had been given to 3 maintenance engineers being flown to Perth to fix an aircraft problem and their award said they had to fly business class.

No appologies, no offer of compensation or refund.

I could not care less what their award agreement stipulates.

I would ask as a minimum a full refund of the full J class airfare paid, not even taking into consideration flying the sector in WHY, plus compensation for being inconvenienced.

When are these people going to realise that you can't run an airline without paying passengers. With a full J cabin the maintenane engineers could have flown in WHY and still got the job done.

 

[NYCguy]

And I'll try to hold back from stating that they are really "mechanics" as opposed to "engineers"... Oh, what the hell, they're mechanics! Or panel-beaters, etc.

 

[littl_flier]

I could not care less what their award agreement stipulates.
....

When are these people going to realise that you can't run an airline without paying passengers. With a full J cabin the maintenance engineers could have flown in WHY and still got the job done.

I'm with you JohnK. An award agreement that stipulates J class travel that bumps a paying passenger? What a load of cr*p. The union bosses have got Geoff D by the b*lls.

Qantas is a public listed company that is accountable to shareholders. Bumping paying passengers generating revenue with no compensation or apology is ridiculous. Sure, the mechanics needed to get to PER to fix a plane but at least offer alternatives to the paying passengers. Even if it was Geoff himself, I would expect he would take a seat in whY before bumping one of his premium passengers.

 

[JohnK]

Even if it was Geoff himself, I would expect he would take a seat in whY before bumping one of his premium passengers.

But again this is typical of some of the small things that if DJ would join *alliance and introduce status to their FF program would take serious business away from QF.

Btw I don't travel business class much, unless I am on a status run, but I have paid enough money to travel SIN-SYD-SIN in BA world traveller plus to seriously worry if I was bumped to economy for of these flights. No amount of compensation would be enough for the inconvenience. OK, I will settle for another return trip in business class as compensation.

 

[Dave Noble]

If their Terms and Conditions state that they are entitled to travel business class, then that is what they are entitled to. Surely it is better to have to involuntarily downgrade 1-3 passengers or rebook them on a later flight ( as is in accordance with QFs T&Cs ) than to have the engineers not travel to Perth and to have the aeroplane stay out of service, which I suspect would have a lot larger impact

There is an entitlement, iirc, of a refund of the difference in fare between Y and J but ,iirc, under the conditions of carriage, there is no further liability on QFs part

Dave

 

[oz_mark]

While it is inconvenient, it is covered by the terms of carriage:

6. Seating
Qantas does not guarantee you any particular seat, even if your reservation is confirmed. You must accept any seat allotted on the flight even if this involves a downgrade, or wait until the next flight on which a seat is available in the class of service paid for.

It does strike me though, that there should be a refund of the difference between fares (which on the PER flights is substantial!). I would be seeking this refund.

In addition, there is also the possibility that not flying the mechanics in accord with their award could create inconvenient things like stop work meeting, which would be much worse.

 

[JohnK]

Not good enough. There is a much easier solution. QF should stop trying to penny pinch and have engineers, mechanics, based in Perth.

In fact QF can have 3 in Perth, 3 in Darwin, 3 in Cairns, 3 in Adelaide and 3 in a few other places and it will only cost them 1/3 of Geoff Dixons yearly bonus....

 

[Dave Noble]

Not good enough. There is a much easier solution. QF should stop trying to penny pinch and have engineers, mechanics, based in Perth.

Why? Have you actually done the cost analysis to determine whether there is value in paying staff just in case there just happens to be a chance that an engineer is needed. Transporting staff as needed makes perfect sense.

If Geoff Dixon decided to just start wasting money, then he wouldn't earn a bonus and would not likely keep his job

Dave

 

[Reggie]

Did you follow up re refund? You paid for J (cash or award) so should get a refund of the difference surely?

The other pax was on some sort of cheap government fare, he was traveling with his government minister (not sure if FED, NSW or WA), the minister was left in J, but his assistant was downgraded, and the minister was argueing that they were going to be working etc, only due to his involvment did we find out why we were downgraded. Anyway the minister kicked up a fuss and said they would be looking fo a refund.

I was still so stunned at our treatment, literally handed to Y classes boarding passes and was told you've been downgraded.:shock: We were on award tickets and I asked about a refund, and as an after thought I was handed two seat adjustment refund coupons.

 

[Reggie]

I would ask as a minimum a full refund of the full J class airfare paid, not even taking into consideration flying the sector in WHY, plus compensation for being inconvenienced.

Get this, the flight was on 28 Nov 2002, took 4 letters of complaint to QF, Customer Relations and QFF. In th end I finally recieved a reply dated 20 Feb 2003 from the Customer Relations Executive WA, with words including appologies, most concerned etc. However total compensation for downgrading business ot economy on SYD to PER was 10,000. This was total, so 5000 points per pax was given as compensation. I cant remember what award flights were way back then, before the many changes to the QFF program. I was unimpressed at the time, but couldn't be bothered fighting anymore.

 

[Reggie]

While it is inconvenient, it is covered by the terms of carriage:

It does strike me though, that there should be a refund of the difference between fares (which on the PER flights is substantial!). I would be seeking this refund.

I looked into the terms of carriage after this event. We were however not given the option of taking the next flight, but if this was to occur again, I would be much more assertive knowing my rights, or lack of when it comes to air travel.

See my post above, I was refunded 5000 points per person for the downgrade on PER-SYD flight. Wasn't worth the cost of the stamps and phone calls, but it was the principle.

 

[simongr]

Not good enough. There is a much easier solution. QF should stop trying to penny pinch and have engineers, mechanics, based in Perth.

In fact QF can have 3 in Perth, 3 in Darwin, 3 in Cairns, 3 in Adelaide and 3 in a few other places and it will only cost them 1/3 of Geoff Dixons yearly bonus....

What the hell has Dixon's bonus have to do with the Unions getting a J seat to perth? John - you wont fly JQ and bitca about it constantly but at the same time want very cheap flights to LOS. Make your mind up - do you want a full service airline that you will pay for or an LCC?

Dixon's bonus is about delivery of "value" to shareholders - PAX are irrelevant.

 

[JohnK]

John - you wont fly JQ and bitca about it constantly but at the same time want very cheap flights to LOS. Make your mind up - do you want a full service airline that you will pay for or an LCC?

Actually I would prefer QFs prices to be on par MH and TG who are both full service carriers and offer a very good product but not very good FF program coverage for Australia domestic.

JQ does not even figure in these calculations. They are LCC extraordinaire with full service carrier airfares.

Dixon's bonus is about delivery of "value" to shareholders - PAX are irrelevant.

Passengers are relevant. Without them the airline does not function and Geoff Dixon does not get bonus probably out of a job.

You do not bump J class passengers for some two bit mechanic. And if for some reason you do bump a J class passenger then you continually apologise and offer them more compensation than their original flights were worth.

But no this is too simple a solution. QF are generally good with customer service but in the situation Reggie was in they got it totally wrong and should have more than made up for it. That is just my opinion, you do not have to agree with it.

 

[Reggie]

But no this is too simple a solution. QF are generally good with customer service but in the situation Reggie was in they got it totally wrong and should have more than made up for it. That is just my opinion, you do not have to agree with it.

I agree with you JohnK. Even though it was a long time ago, I still do not get excited about a particular seat I was issued, the class I am supposed to be flying whether paid for with cash or points. I am amazed at how many people do not realise that QF or any airline is under no obligation ot fly you in the class you paid for, let alone the seat you preselected. I hear associates whinging that they didn't get an emergency exit, or their preselected seat was given to a mother due to the bassenette, but most have no idea that they can actually be downgraded on a flight. I have never been lucky enough to be OPUPed, but have honour of being one of the few to be OPDOWNed.

Anyway enough crying for now, I just never assume my allocated seat is mine, till the wheels have gone up.

 

[Reggie]

Thats what I get for having a whinge - a double posting - Sorry oh great one of Frequent Flyer Award Flights

 

[acampbel]

... union bosses ...

Joe - haven't you got better things to do than troll around on this site?


Won't Get Fooled Again (optimistic motto for 2007)


Cheers,

Andrew

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