Qantas cancels flight, refuses paid upgrade, refuses points refund

[Growing Older]

Dear AFF community,

I'm looking for some advice here after hitting repeated roadblocks with Qantas Customer Care.

Long story short: Mrs GO was flying QF SYD-MEL return in Y class for work in December 2022, on a corporate gig booked by a travel agent. I upgraded her Y flights to J using my QFF points both ways, so she could enjoy the QF lounges. SYD-MEL leg was fine. QF then cancelled the MEL-SYD flight, put Mrs GO on a much later flight, and didn't offer her the J upgrade that I had already paid. No biggie - I figured that I would get a points refund, eventually.

I lodged a complaint in February that went into the abyss, so I followed up with another one. Lots of garbage came back, essentially telling me it was MY fault that the flight was cancelled. I complained again, showed them the texts that proved QF had cancelled the flight, and politely asked for a refund of my 10,900 QFF upgrade points. Two months pass by and then I got a message earlier this week saying they apologised for the previous correspondence, have reviewed the facts again, reminded me that this was a travel agency booking (and so they could do nothing about it) and "as a gesture of goodwill" could offer me 4,000 QFF points. These were posted with immediate effect.

I wrote back to them today asking about the other 6,900 QFF points and demanding a full refund for a service that was not provided. They came within 2 hours and refused again, asking me to understand their position.

The points are not material to me; the principle is, as well as the attitude. I've asked QF one last time to explain how they can defend keeping a customer's points, knowing full well that they failed to deliver the service for those points. I'm sure that I'll get some garbage response about how they have reviewed the case for a third time and still cannot do anything more to help me. Has anyone else experienced similar blow-back or could suggest another alternative? I've already asked for the case to be escalated (trying to suppress my inner Karen) which was also refused. I was a Qantas fan-boy for almost 30 years and they've well and truly lost me in the past 9 months... SG member but feeling like it's just fool's gold now!

 

[RichardMEL]

Ridiculous. One presumes that since flight was cancelled the U seat on later flight was not available due to reaccoms or just plain full flights, which makes sense.. but with the original flight cancelled by QF, the upgrade should have automatically gone back to you when the flight was rebooked back into Y. It's irrelevant that it was a TA booking imo and that seems like a rubbish thing to say.

I think you may be in a pickle now - since they have seemonglu assumed you'd accept 4k "goodwill" points, and I'm not sure how QF would now treat the situation, even though you're owed >6k more. I understand you didn't have a choice in the matter since whoever did that clearly had no clue.

Honestly it's things like this that shouldn't even be a blip (apart from the unfortunate experience for your wife with cxl/delay and unexpected downgrade) but somehow it is (not to mention still being an issue 6 months later). gah!

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Have you tried calling the QFFF service centre and speaking to a person? Hopefully they might get a better understanding of the situation.

Otherwise the Airline Consumer Advocate should be an,e to get your complaint in front of the right person. QF should offer a full refund as per their terms and conditions. So this should be within the ACA’s remit.

 

[Growing Older]

Just got this back from QF... and still no justification for refusing a full points refund, just the same old BS regarding the TA.

Thanks a lot to MEL_Traveller for pointing me to the ACA; had never heard of them before, but David has just gone into battle with Goliath over a measly 6.9k points.

Dear MR GO,

Thank you so much for your recent correspondence.

Please accept our apologies for the delayed response and for the negative experience that you encountered with us. We would also like to apologize for the lack of customer service provided by us and for the previous correspondence. Your patience and understanding are greatly appreciated.

We have reviewed your case and we have liaised with our Internal department to provide feedback on the matter. Please be advised that upon further investigation, we can confirm that you originally purchased this ticket with a travel agency. Kindly be remined that Qantas is not liable to refund or process anything on a ticket this isn't ours. While we understand that this is not the response that you had anticipated, we regret that we cannot take any further action and we now consider this case closed from our end without any further handling.

We hope that the above information will aid in your query and we look forward to welcoming you on board on a Qantas flight in the near future.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Just got this back from QF... and still no justification for refusing a full points refund, just the same old BS regarding the TA.

Thanks a lot to MEL_Traveller for pointing me to the ACA; had never heard of them before, but David has just gone into battle with Goliath over a measly 6.9k points.

Dear MR GO,

Thank you so much for your recent correspondence.

Please accept our apologies for the delayed response and for the negative experience that you encountered with us. We would also like to apologize for the lack of customer service provided by us and for the previous correspondence. Your patience and understanding are greatly appreciated.

We have reviewed your case and we have liaised with our Internal department to provide feedback on the matter. Please be advised that upon further investigation, we can confirm that you originally purchased this ticket with a travel agency. Kindly be remined that Qantas is not liable to refund or process anything on a ticket this isn't ours. While we understand that this is not the response that you had anticipated, we regret that we cannot take any further action and we now consider this case closed from our end without any further handling.

We hope that the above information will aid in your query and we look forward to welcoming you on board on a Qantas flight in the near future.

I wonder if that response is legal under consumer protection laws? I’m not aware that travel agents have their own tickets? Would the a first! TAs issue on an airline’s ticket stock. So the ticket ‘is’ the airline’s.

Imagine the implications of the above response for ACCC consumer law or European protection under Eu261. Of course the airline is liable if they downgrade you!

On further reflection I actually think they have approached this incorrectly. While the ticket may have been issued by a TA, the points for the upgrade were yours… nothing to do with the TA. Completely separate transactions. If the airline can’t touch a TA issued ticket they should also have been unable to take your points to apply to that same ticket.

 

[Growing Older]

I wonder if that response is legal under consumer protection laws? I’m not aware that travel agents have their own tickets? Would the a first! TAs issue on an airline’s ticket stock. So the ticket ‘is’ the airline’s.

Imagine the implications of the above response for ACCC consumer law or European protection under Eu261. Of course the airline is liable if they downgrade you!

On further reflection I actually think they have approached this incorrectly. While the ticket may have been issued by a TA, the points for the upgrade were yours… nothing to do with the TA. Completely separate transactions. If the airline can’t touch a TA issued ticket they should also have been unable to take your points to apply to that same ticket.

I've been crystal clear to QF (and now the ACA) about there being two contracts here: the first between QF and the TA (where there is no dispute and no refund needed) and the second between QF and myself (which they now consider closed). Let's see what the next move is...

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I've been crystal clear to QF (and now the ACA) about there being two contracts here: the first between QF and the TA (where there is no dispute and no refund needed) and the second between QF and myself (which they now consider closed). Let's see what the next move is...

You could also contact consumer affairs in your state… they provide free advice and assistance. The points aren’t really the issue anymore… it’s the principle.

I’ve just finished a similar interaction with Virgin. A ‘guest coordinator’, who may not even be real, just cutting and pasting generic responses. For my own sanity i haven’t bothered to reply to the latest nonsense from them… I know their next reply will be equally insulting and just draw out bad experience

 

[RichardMEL]

QF's operational changes are the cause here. TA issued ticket is irrelevant. QF know this I am certain. At the very least this is QF trying to fob you off to your TA (who quite rightly would say "we can't do anything about this") and/or hope you go away. I honestly don't understand why they can't accept the points they owe you for the downgrade - involuntary, and it's their own "currency" - which again has nothing to do with the TA.

Trying to be charitable to whoever is answering your emails it could be a total misunderstanding - specially when using words like "refund" (this is not aimed at the OP) .and they think money without even really understanding what it is that's happened and what you deserve.

and honestly it's not like you're asking for thousands of dollars worth but more the principle to get that SYD-MEL upgrade points amount back. It's the principle (and the vibe) of the thing.

 

[kpc]

Glad to see Qf have improved their customer service....not!

My QF flying days are numbered - due to poor QF CS

I'm so pi$$ed off with QF atm...when i get back to Oz, I shall sent the CEO a registered letter including the email trail showing how inept their customer service / frequent flyer center is in sorting out a relatively simple issue for me. He almost certainly won't read it but hopefully someone...

www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au

 

[Quickstatus]

A ticket that isn't ours...

Let's see
Aircraft that isn't ours
Cabin crew that isn't ours
Baggage handlers that isn't ours
And now tickets that isn't ours

 

[Growing Older]

ACA steps in, and two weeks on, David fells Goliath!!!!

@MEL_Traveller - many thanks for your wise counsel here. It really shouldn't be this hard, but if a 30+ year QF fan-boy was driven to this, it really says something about the QF brand these days. Let's see if they take back those 4,000 "goodwill" points before my restitution is made within 14 days.

Full text below; my emphasis in bold.

In the intervening fortnight, QF also sent me a Customer Care Survey, asking about my experience in relation to this case. Normally I don't bother with surveys; this time, I was a little more motivated. Both barrells are still smoking from my response, which probably went nowhere, but boy was it cathartic!

Memo to the AFF community out there struggling with QF: nice guys *don't* always come last!

Dear MR GO, Thank you for contacting us about your customer experience with Qantas. Please accept our apologies for the delayed response and for the time it has taken to respond to your concern. Your patience and understanding is greatly appreciated. I wish first to apologise for the overall experience you have had with us and would like to advise that we are in receipt of your formal complaint with the Airline Customer Advocate (ACA). I have investigated this matter and have concluded that Qantas provided incorrect information by referring you to your travel agency. Due to the downgrade of cabin on the QF498 service, we have reconsidered our decision and have concluded to reimburse you with full restitution of the Frequent Flyer (FF) points used. I can confirm that we will reimburse 10,900 FF points to your account. Please allow up to 14 business days for the points to reflect. I appreciate that you have taken the time to raise your concerns and I hope the next Qantas experience is more pleasing and a great travel experience. We thank you for making contact and wish you well.

Kind Regards Daniel Qantas Customer Care Team

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Good outcome! It really is just a matter of getting it in front of the right person.

Unfortunately common sense just isn’t there with 99.9% of the overseas agents. They tell us things like

• Qantas doesn’t fly SYD-MEL after 8am on any day of the week
• that a domestic award in the USA could legitimately attract an airport tax of $425 for a single short haul flight (not even a carrier surcharge, but airport tax!)
• that your confirmed booking in business class has been changed to economy because ‘availability can change’ (even though you were booked in business and had selected a seat)

NONE of those things even trigger the slightest inquisitive mind to question ‘that doesn’t seem right’

So i guess the ACA is useful for some things

Thanks for the data point.

 

[Seat0B]

So glad you got a good resolution. It's so frustrating though to have to go through all that process when it should simply have been sorted out from the first time you contacted them.

 

[AndyC1970]

This highlights just how bad their customer service is - the fact that they dug their heals in on what as such a clear issue to solve indicates just how endemic bad customer service is across Qantas . Its a mess. A complete disaster.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

The most frustrating element is that there is no avenue for appeal, no way to contact anyone that can help review a ‘decision’.

 

[Growing Older]

Case closed!

 

[drron]

Compliments of Customer Contact.
So QF have no concern that obvious mistakes were made and patting themselves on the back when they finally recognised the bleeding obvious.

 

[jgm]

The cynic in me wonders if positive results from ACA contacts have anything to do with the current proposals around an EU261 style legislation in Australia.

 

[Vic]

Thanks Op. Well done...

The most frustrating element is that there is no avenue for appeal, no way to contact anyone that can help review a ‘decision’.

I'll have to defend qantas slightly on this to say that at least they have phone numbers and there is the ACA.

Offtopic=
By comparison Ticketek is a complete blank wall, aside from maybe an email address. They will happily rip you off and deny a refund for their error and then block your account from purchasing when the credit card dispute is successful.
There is no Australian ticketek Advocate, sadly.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Thanks Op. Well done...

I'll have to defend qantas slightly on this to say that at least they have phone numbers and there is the ACA.

Offtopic=
By comparison Ticketek is a complete blank wall, aside from maybe an email address. They will happily rip you off and deny a refund for their error and then block your account from purchasing when the credit card dispute is successful.
There is no Australian ticketek Advocate, sadly.

Ok… but… the QF phone numbers return you to the same group of agents, and the same replies

Telling someone that adding a single award flight LGA-ORD will attract AUD425 airport tax is crazy. and you can’t speak to a manager, you can’t escalate. And the ACA process means your seats will have gone.