Qantas Club - Denied Access [QP member before CX flight]

[esseeeayeenn]

And they're a Qantas customer as a QP member regardless.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Qantas sold them the CX flight

I would 100% not want QF to stop selling me convenient, single ticket connections on other airlines (with all the protections that gives).

We have seen on AFF that some people (even platinum members) do not know what oneworld is, and do not know what the ruby, sapphire and emerald 'disks' mean. They would easily think that because QF is selling Philippine Airlines, PR is also a member of oneworld and grants lounge access.

That would probably be unsustainable. I would rather have the connections any day over the risk of losing them outright because people don't understand the product.

 

[esseeeayeenn]

No-one is suggesting that ridiculous, unrealistic expectations should be honoured.
The discussion is over the location of the boundary between reasonable and unreasonable expectations.
An aspect which just occurred to me - didn't the OP arrive in HKG on a QF flight indeed QF metal?
It seems a bit grim that a paid up QP member couldn't use the lounge on arrival.
Just confirms my view that QP membership isn't good value.

 

[RooFlyer]

Qantas sold them the CX flight

Irrelevant, as we all know; Qantas was acting as an agent.

And they're a Qantas customer as a QP member regardless.

And Qantas Club rules say no admittance in this case.

Regardless.


Guess what; I flew SYD-LRE-SYD today, revenue flight, as a WP. Booked and paid direct to Qantas. No points and no SCs! :shock: Waaaaaaaaaaa.... I'm a Qantas "customer" and they don't give me points and SCs for these 2 flights ... Waaaaaaaaaaaaa!

No-one on the flight got points and SCs and I didn't hear anyone complaining. Why? because there was a rule about this flight and we accepted that rule when we bought the tickets.

People should go to another FF program if they don't like the rules and conditions of QFF that much. I don't like many of their rules (remember anytime access?) but I make the judgment that the T&Cs suit me well enough.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

No-one is suggesting that ridiculous, unrealistic expectations should be honoured.
The discussion is over the location of the boundary between reasonable and unreasonable expectations.
An aspect which just occurred to me - didn't the OP arrive in HKG on a QF flight indeed QF metal?
It seems a bit grim that a paid up QP member couldn't use the lounge on arrival.
Just confirms my view that QP membership isn't good value.

Qantas Club access used to be 'anytime' when it was first introduced. You could go out to the airport after work for a few beers and a bite to eat. You could go to the lounge while waiting for someone to arrive (or guest them in as they depart).

That's all changed, and even for platinum members, 'anytime access' has gone. I think it is a stretch to grant QF Club (for a few hundred dollars a year) greater benefits than plantinums!

 

[esseeeayeenn]

If the answer to everything is "the rules are the rules" we should just shut this forum down.

 

[esseeeayeenn]

Irrelevant, as we all know; Qantas was acting as an agent.

No, there is a huge legal difference between a ticketing carrier and an agent.

 

[RooFlyer]

No, there is a huge legal difference between a ticketing carrier and an agent.

Tell us all about it.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

If the answer to everything is "the rules are the rules" we should just shut this forum down.

The 'rules' aren't always clear. This forum helps refine what they mean, and press for a fair application of those rules when required (for example the success we had with getting one member's points reinstated after they lost them due to inactivity).

But this rule is entirely clear. The expectation may not be clear, but that's a different issue. The expectation was not supported by any reading of the rules or ambiguity in the rules.

 

[esseeeayeenn]

It is clearly legitimate to also discuss aspects of the rules people think are unfair and would like modified.
There are numerous examples of this throughout the forums.

 

[11sjw]

If the answer to everything is "the rules are the rules" we should just shut this forum down.

Why? The best part of this site is maximising your benefits as the rules change through the exchange of ideas.

The OP in this case was a whine when it wasn't justified (IMO).

 

[medhead]

Irrelevant, as we all know; Qantas was acting as an agent.


And Qantas Club rules say no admittance in this case.

Regardless.


Guess what; I flew SYD-LRE-SYD today, revenue flight, as a WP. Booked and paid direct to Qantas. No points and no SCs! :shock: Waaaaaaaaaaa.... I'm a Qantas "customer" and they don't give me points and SCs for these 2 flights ... Waaaaaaaaaaaaa!

No-one on the flight got points and SCs and I didn't hear anyone complaining. Why? because there was a rule about this flight and we accepted that rule when we bought the tickets.

People should go to another FF program if they don't like the rules and conditions of QFF that much. I don't like many of their rules (remember anytime access?) but I make the judgment that the T&Cs suit me well enough.

It's highly relevant when the ticket number starts with 081.

The only irrelevance to the topic under discussion is constantly quoting the rules. It seems to me that quoting the rules results from a failure to accept someone has different opinion to you. We read the rules the first time, what is being discussed is the fairness of those rules. I have no idea why you feel the need to prove someone else's opinion wrong. Quoting rules like a broken record certainly doesn't change my opinion.

 

[medhead]

Why? The best part of this site is maximising your benefits as the rules change through the exchange of ideas.

The OP in this case was a whine when it wasn't justified (IMO).

Seriously? You don't understand the point?

 

[11sjw]

Seriously? You don't understand the point?

I understand it completely. Just don't agree with the OP's POV.

 

[serfty]

Qantas Club access used to be 'anytime' when it was first introduced. You could go out to the airport after work for a few beers and a bite to eat. You could go to the lounge while waiting for someone to arrive (or guest them in as they depart). ...

That was back in the days of the "two Airlines system". Fare were high under the TAA/Qantas & Ansett duopoly and the was plenty of revenue to provide such.

By the mid 90's this had already devolved to "day of travel".

 

[RooFlyer]

It's highly relevant when the ticket number starts with 081.

The only irrelevance to the topic under discussion is constantly quoting the rules. It seems to me that quoting the rules results from a failure to accept someone has different opinion to you. We read the rules the first time, what is being discussed is the fairness of those rules. <snip>

The fact that the ticket number starts with 081 unfortunately is not relevant regarding access to the QP, although one may have an opinion otherwise. Rules are quoted because the OP essentially made a complaint at being denied access to te QP before boarding a CX flight:

I don't know if there has been a recent Qantas policy change, but I recently traveled from Melbourne to Manila, via Hong Kong.

...

I'm a Qantas Club member, with lifetime Silver status (whoopee), so I was surprised when I attempted to use the Qantas lounge in Hong Kong, only to be denied access "because my next flight was with Cathay Pacific".

Apparently, even though I had arrived in Hong Kong on a Qantas flight, even though I had booked the next flight with Qantas, even though I had paid Qantas for the next flight, and even though I had a Qantas branded boarding pass for the next flight... I could not use the Qantas lounge in Hong Kong, because, as far as Qantas was concerned, I had suddenly become a Cathy Pacific customer.

The only thing of any real value to me in holding a Qantas Club membership these days is being able to access Qantas lounges when I'm travelling. I've been a continuous Qantas Club member since 1993... before it was called Qantas Club. Such a petty approach to customer service, as demonstrated by this example, seems to indicate that loyalty is pretty much a one way street with Qantas these days.

In subsequent posts the OP showed that they simply didn't understand the QP rules - ie the 'Qantas sold me the flight, I've shown Qantas loyalty' etc etc. Hence the wretched 'rules' were trotted out, and the OP then seemed to morph into "Well, I disagree with the rules."

I have no idea why you feel the need to prove someone else's opinion wrong. Quoting rules like a broken record certainly doesn't change my opinion.

In regards to expressing opinions, this is what I said up-thread:

By all means express opinions about lounge access rules; by all means have a bit of a rant - goodness knows, I have done both from time to time. But in this case its a simple, long standing rule and you appeared to fail to accept that what you paid for was a CX flight, not a Qantas one and Qantas was just an agent for it. I think Princess Fiona has just put it best (who I see you continue to argue the toss with).

You must have missed that .

If people want to express an opinion that, say "I don't agree with the rule that says I can't sit in an empty J seat when I've paid for economy" - then as far as I'm concerned they can do it till they are blue in the face.

And they do.

And that's my opinion.

 

[basso]

Re: Qantas Club Lounge - Denied Access

In my view of a totally hypothetical scenario CX - as a OW airline -would be ruled in while PR would be ruled out. The actual closeness of the OW alliance is another issue entirely!

The problem with this point of view is that even oneworld make it clear that the Qantas Club membership is not part of one world

American Airlines, US Airways and Qantas offer programmes enabling customers to pay to gain access to their lounges. These programmes are not part of the oneworld agreement, and members of these programmes are not entitled to access lounges under the oneworld agreement.

It is pretty clear to me, that if they allowed it for Cathay, people would be arguing that it should be allowed for any airline.

 

[njh1964]

In subsequent posts the OP showed that they simply didn't understand the QP rules - ie the 'Qantas sold me the flight, I've shown Qantas loyalty' etc etc. Hence the wretched 'rules' were trotted out, and the OP then seemed to morph into "Well, I disagree with the rules."

Hi RooFlyer,

Please allow me to clarify the situation. I understand the rule is that "paid" Qantas Club members can only use the Qantas Club lounge when their next flight is a Qantas, Jetstar or Qantas code share flight. It is true that I wasn't aware of this specific rule when I booked my flight, nor before I attempted to access the Qantas Lounge in Hong Kong. The reason (not excuse) for my ignorance is simply that I haven't been a "paid" Qantas Club member for donkey's years... most of the time I have been a Gold or Platinum member.

As several people on this forum have pointed out, the rules are the rules, and it therefore doesn't matter if I was aware of this particular rule or not. Point taken, and conceded.

As a newly re-minted "paid" Qantas Club member, my personal opinion is that when Qantas sells an itinerary/trip/ticket to travel from Point A to Point B, and even if they book you on another airline for part of that itinerary, then it would be very much appreciated (at least by me) if "paid" Qantas Club members could be granted access to Qantas Lounges during that trip.

I'm not suggesting that "paid" Qantas Club members should enjoy the full rights and privileges of Gold and Platinum members. However, such a relatively minor rule change would be a low cost but customer-valued way for Qantas to recognise members who prefer to book their travel itineraries through Qantas.

Again, just to clarify, if I were to purchase flights directly with Cathay Pacific, or any other One World partner, then I would not expect my "paid" Qantas Club membership to provide me with access to One World or Qantas lounges during such trips. That should remain the preserve of Gold or Platinum members, on the basis of their One World membership privileges.

I can't think of any way in which I can better explain myself, so I'll leave it there. My thanks to those who agreed with and expanded upon my suggestion, and my thanks also to those who have not agreed with my opinion, but who still managed to disagree in an agreeable fashion.

 

[esseeeayeenn]

Re: Qantas Club Lounge - Denied Access

The problem with this point of view is that even oneworld make it clear that the Qantas Club membership is not part of one world

This is irrelevant because the lounge in question is a Qantas lounge. No-one is arguing that they should have access to any other lounge under the OW agreement.
The reference to OW was in the context of a reasonable limit on the access rights of a paid QP member, travelling on a QF issued ticket, not as the basis for their access rights.

It is pretty clear to me, that if they allowed it for Cathay, people would be arguing that it should be allowed for any airline.

Well if that was any airline with which a paid QP member had booked a sector as part of an eticket issued by Qantas I don't think that would be so unreasonable.
The distinction between OW and other airlines was suggested as an acceptable compromise.
I am confident that most people would be capable of recognising such a nuance.

 

[moa999]

I'm not suggesting that "paid" Qantas Club members should enjoy the full rights and privileges of Gold and Platinum members. However, such a relatively minor rule change would be a low cost but customer-valued way for Qantas to recognise members who prefer to book their travel itineraries through Qantas.

njh1964,
Think it's also worth considering that Qantas Club have never had access on CX itineraries and I suspect QF might struggle to negotiate what you suggest given CX itself doesn't have a paid access program (AFAIK only QF and AA have paid access programs - indeed I believe this was one of the reasons that much of BA access was removed from Qantas Club)