Qantas Club - Denied Access [QP member before CX flight]

[sydstar]

Re: Qantas Club Lounge - Denied Access

Admittedly I haven't read through the entire thread however HKG has some super relaxing "lounge" chairs that I personally have spent a good few hours dozing in. If there was anywhere to be stuck without lounge access then HKG would be top 5 for me.

HKG is one airport I could certainly cope with having a long layover in (as well as SIN)!

I have accessed the (old) QF J lounge at HKG as a QP when flying on CX, however this was due to a unique situation involving irrops, EK and QF codeshares that somehow saw me end up in HKG. I was well aware that I was not entitled to access, and upon arriving at the lounge I asked to speak the lounge manager to explain the situation. She made it clear that she was granting access as a 'one time exception' and I was very grateful for her understanding. It probably helped that this was after the QF flights back to Aus had departed, leaving just BA pax.

As a QP I understand that access is limited to certain situations, and either plan accordingly or accept no lounge. Coincidentally, today is my last day as a QP; considering I'll reach SG in January, I just can't see the point in renewing

 

[Melburnian1]

Re: Qantas Club Lounge - Denied Access

Strictly the OP may be looking for a variance to the rules, but he may have a point.

Of all the contributors, perhaps it is medhead who has come closest to the issue.

By QF selling a seat on the HKG-MNL sector on a CX flight, surely QF would be earning commission? Three per cent? Maybe a bit more?

From that, it would hardly be difficult for QF to then offer complimentary HKG lounge access to the OP. Presumably the lounge has sufficient available seating, food and drink.

There is a simple solution for the OP. Fly PR (or 5J) from Australia to Manila because both are nonstop (and PR have nonstops from Melbourne and Darwin as well as Sydney, and one stop from Brisbane) and probably cheaper than QF. I also find both PR and 5J acceptable, even if not five star.

Why financially support a business such as QF that seems more and more to have so little regard for its more loyal passengers who use it or book through it, but for whatever reason may have insufficient status credits?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Re: Qantas Club Lounge - Denied Access

Strictly the OP may be looking for a variance to the rules, but he may have a point.

Of all the contributors, perhaps it is medhead who has come closest to the issue.

By QF selling a seat on the HKG-MNL sector on a CX flight, surely QF would be earning commission? Three per cent? Maybe a bit more?

From that, it would hardly be difficult for QF to then offer complimentary HKG lounge access to the OP. Presumably the lounge has sufficient available seating, food and drink.

There is a simple solution for the OP. Fly PR (or 5J) from Australia to Manila because both are nonstop (and PR have nonstops from Melbourne and Darwin as well as Sydney, and one stop from Brisbane) and probably cheaper than QF. I also find both PR and 5J acceptable, even if not five star.

Why financially support a business such as QF that seems more and more to have so little regard for its more loyal passengers who use it or book through it, but for whatever reason may have insufficient status credits?

There may be all sorts of reasons why someone wants to use QF services (via Hong Kong) rather than fly direct. The passenger may want to apply for an upgrade on the AU-HKG sector. They may be travelling with a friend already booked on the QF flight.

While Qantas is making money out of the passenger flying its service to HKG, I'm not sure it is for qantas to consider the motivation of a passenger wishing to fly beyond hong kong, on a Cathay Pacific flight? In addition to its own non-stop flights, QF sells seats to Manila via HKG (CX) and via SIN (PR).

Should a passenger flying Philippine Airlines get Qantas Club access in Singapore?

The OP was confused because they thought it was a code-share flight. It's not, and the QF website makes that very clear. No QF flight number, and a note to say the flight is operated by CX.

[TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="class: location"]11:25MelbourneDuration: 9h 30m[/TD]
[TD="class: location"]17:55Hong KongStops: 0[/TD]
[TD="class: flight-number"]QF29[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="class: location"]20:05Hong KongDuration: 2h 05m[/TD]
[TD="class: location"]22:10ManilaStops: 0[/TD]
[TD="class: flight-number"]CX913[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: single-cell, colspan: 3"]Total duration: 16h 10m

• 
  = Flight CX913 is operated by Cathay Pacific

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[eastwest101]

Re: Qantas Club Lounge - Denied Access

From that, it would hardly be difficult for QF to then offer complimentary HKG lounge access to the OP. Presumably the lounge has sufficient available seating, food and drink.

There is a simple solution for the OP. Fly PR (or 5J) from Australia to Manila because both are nonstop (and PR have nonstops from Melbourne and Darwin as well as Sydney, and one stop from Brisbane) and probably cheaper than QF. I also find both PR and 5J acceptable, even if not five star.

All valid points and questions you raised there. Don't forget as others have previously mentioned there may have been another option for the OP to fly Qantas MEL-SYD-MNL but its possible the timing didn't suit the OP, another possibility is that the pricing MNL-SYD fares can sometimes be extremely high so the OP chose the option to go via HKG possibly for those reasons, or even to avoid the Dom->Int transfer in SYD. Consequently they also lost their chance to enter a QF lounge in SYD. We can't assume or project too much about the motivations of the OP (besides what they have posted here) but I think they have attempted to explain their reasoning in choosing QF/CX.

I guess what this could imply is that either the profit margin for QF selling the MEL-HKG-MNL is so skinny that they can't/won't allow for the costs of a QP member entering the lounge in HKG while in transit to MNL or there is insufficient interest in giving QC members access to anything other than domestic QF lounges, if its the latter then I reckon that's potentially a pretty myopic/short sighted business decision.

The other question is why QF won't stick their own code share flight number on services such as that taken by the OP, we don't know if its a case of QF and CX not playing nicely, a regulatory hurdle or just simply an attempt to preserve QF's yields on their SYD-MNL services, or something else entirely.

Its peculiar that an airline that wants our money so much that they feel inclined to charge for exit row seats can't find a way to offer say - a one off access visit and charge the customer a reasonable amount based on their purchase of the MEL-HKG-MNL ticket.

Heck - even CX could email the customer and offer a one-off lounge access visit at a price that makes money for CX and is acceptable to the OP. If I was CX that's what I would be doing!

 

[trippin_the_rift]

Re: Qantas Club Lounge - Denied Access

I'm surprised by the support for the OP, given they clearly had no right to access under even the most flexible of rules.
While the OP may have thought they had access (for whatever reason) - Qantas makes no secret about lounge access rules. It's printed in welcome kits, online on the website and in the destination guide in view my bookings. 22 years as a member and the rules have largely remained unchanged, especially in the last decade.

Additionally, there are 7 paid lounges in HKG and plenty more quiet spots in the airprot so there is certainly no shortage of comfortable seating.

Is there an opportunity for QF to make money from selling more lounge memberships? Perhaps. There's no shortage of lounge/pax suppliers trying to woo Qantas, Cathay and other lounges to signup to their aggregate programs, but the fact remains if airlines sold out premium facilities to 'fill lounges for cash' it would have a larger impact on ticket sales. This is nothing new folks.

My bull**** meter is highly tuned for this type of stuff and it looks to me like the OP is trying to get something for free.

 

[serfty]

Re: Qantas Club Lounge - Denied Access

I'...

My bull**** meter is highly tuned for this type of stuff and it looks to me like the OP is trying to get something for free.

Not for me.

I think it quite credible that a member who has had SG status over a decade would simply assume they had access in the scenario referred to.

Not all regular travellers get into the nitty gritties of travel like many of us here do.

 

[esseeeayeenn]

Re: Qantas Club Lounge - Denied Access

It is perfectly possible to acknowledge that "these are the rules" and still think that "the rules are cough" or, as in this case, "the rules could be a bit better".
The OP has paid for QP membership, so it's unfair to characterise them as trying to get something for free. That issue doesn't even arise from the facts of this case.
Obviously there has to be limit on the entitlements which come with QP membership. But no-one has suggested otherwise in this thread.
I don't think anyone would expect QP membership to allow entry to any lounge which is not a QF operated lounge.
There was no suggestion that the OP expected to be able to access a OneWorld lounge such as one of the many CX lounges in HKG, for example.
Nor do I think anyone would expect to be able to use a QF domestic lounge when flying on a VA flight, or a flight on any other rival carrier.
However it seems reasonable to me for the OP to suggest that QP membership should allow access to QF operated lounges when flying with an airline closely associated with QF.
Especially when they booked that fare through the QF website.
I do agree that the rules are not hidden. That is why I suggested that the real problem isn't about transparency of the rules, but the (lack of) value of the QP membership.
It is perfectly valid for the OP to say that they are unhappy with the rules. It is perfectly valid for others to agree, or disagree.
Surely that is one of the purposes of this forum. For customers to give feedback and (hopefully) for airline reps to notice.
Perhaps on rare occasions they might even change their rules in response.
Ultimately, it is up to them to decide what product to offer, and it's up to us to decide whether to purchase that product.
That's why, unlike the OP, I have never and will never buy QP membership.
However if every customer made that decision silently, they would deprive QF of feedback which might help it better tailor its offerings.
In which case both QF and consumers would be the losers.

 

[Flying mermaid]

Re: Qantas Club Lounge - Denied Access

Not for me.

I think it quite credible that a member who has had SG status over a decade would simply assume they had access in the scenario referred to.

Not all regular travellers get into the nitty gritties of travel like many of us here do.

It is pretty easy to get confused between the two. Dr FM has LT QP. She booked with Malaysian for a trip to Langkawi and asked me if she would have access to the International Qantas lounge in Sydney, I didn't check and just said said Yep no problems because it is part of oneworld. Well of course she didn't and after she phoned me to check after being denied entry, I had to beg forgiveness as I had been confused between gold and QP. It is very hard to keep it all straight and it does keep changing e.g. a few months ago I told Master FM that his LT QP would only allow him into AA lounges in the USA if flying on a QF no, now it appears to have gone back to QF or AA. QF membership used to allow you into any BA lounge (even terminal 5), now it doesn't. I generally check before I go on access rules, especially for a new destination, because it never seems intuitive for me (but then I don't regard myself as a frequent flyer).

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Re: Qantas Club Lounge - Denied Access

However it seems reasonable to me for the OP to suggest that QP membership should allow access to QF operated lounges when flying with an airline closely associated with QF.
Especially when they booked that fare through the QF website.

'Closely associated with' - I'm not sure whether that rules in, or rules out CX!

A potential problem with this 'modified' access would be that booking MEL-SIN-MNL on the Qantas website, with SIN-MNL on Philippine Airlines, would allow access to the Qantas Singapore Lounge.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Re: Qantas Club Lounge - Denied Access

By QF selling a seat on the HKG-MNL sector on a CX flight, surely QF would be earning commission? Three per cent? Maybe a bit more?

Thinking about this a bit more... if QF does make any profit - that is potentially off-set by offering the passenger two or more flights on a single ticket, with all the benefits of that single ticket in terms of missed connections. It potentially saves the passenger several hours of waiting around HKG (or any other transit point) to cover delays.

 

[esseeeayeenn]

Re: Qantas Club Lounge - Denied Access

'Closely associated with' - I'm not sure whether that rules in, or rules out CX!

A potential problem with this 'modified' access would be that booking MEL-SIN-MNL on the Qantas website, with SIN-MNL on Philippine Airlines, would allow access to the Qantas Singapore Lounge.

In my view of a totally hypothetical scenario CX - as a OW airline -would be ruled in while PR would be ruled out.
The actual closeness of the OW alliance is another issue entirely!

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Re: Qantas Club Lounge - Denied Access

In my view of a totally hypothetical scenario CX - as a OW airline -would be ruled in while PR would be ruled out.
The actual closeness of the OW alliance is another issue entirely!

Understand. But then you know the next complaint... I booked MEL-SIN-MNL on the Qantas site, and it turns out Philippine Airlines isn't a member of onewordl!! Why didn't the booking engine make it clear that as a QC member/gold/platinum I wouldn't have lounge access?

 

[trippin_the_rift]

Re: Qantas Club Lounge - Denied Access

Understand. But then you know the next complaint... I booked MEL-SIN-MNL on the Qantas site, and it turns out Philippine Airlines isn't a member of onewordl!! Why didn't the booking engine make it clear that as a QC member/gold/platinum I wouldn't have lounge access?

Sometimes I feel posts like this are baiting me to give away all the answers for airlines ;-)

I wrote up an insightful and detailed reply that would make QFF and another major company a lot of cash by teaming up together... but as I'm in talks with one of them I'll add it to the bill. Are you reading this and work with an airline/FFP? Hit me up - I've got a huge revenue opportunity for you to partner with a MAJOR company and solving the issues in this thread at the same time.

 

[mannej]

Re: Qantas Club Lounge - Denied Access

I don't have a problem with differing opinions. However, exactly how should I interpret your comment in an earlier post when you stated that "I'm not going to get started with all of this with all due respect rubbish"? I choose my words carefully and deliberately. You may think it a cliche, but when I use the words "with all due respect", I mean just that. I respect your opinion, but I reserve the right to have a different point of view, and to express it... preferably without being rubbished.

Sorry but I believe that the comments "with all due respect" have been used to suggest that you don't hold my differing opinion with any credibility.

As for the above comment, I think your points are valid, but, really, how much extra would it cost for Qantas to allow Qantas Club members to use the lounge in situations such as I have described. After 22 years of membership, is a comfy seat, a couple of beers and a plate of food too much to ask for between flights... even if the next flight is with a partner airline which was booked through Qantas?

Define Partner airline? Whilst I think you think it may be a logical progression, you'd be surprised at the number of airlines that have flights available on the QF website. Not every airline QF acts as an agent for is an actual partner with QF. As I have mentioned previously, having an agreement in place with each of these airlines for lounge access is not a cheap exercise.

Qantas Club members are not that high in the chain of command, do you think that the paid membership should have better lounge entitlements compared to those who have earned their lounge access by flying?

 

[mannej]

Re: Qantas Club Lounge - Denied Access

Here's your problem. Under contract law if you sign it (and yes a click is regarded as a signature) you're bound by it. It doesn't matter whether you chose to read it or not. Yes, you are expected to read all of a contractual document before you sign it. No one forced you into doing this. So to say "no one reads the entire terms and conditions document" is fundamentally incorrect.

Here is the final section of the payment page when purchasing QP membership.

 

[muppet]

Re: Qantas Club Lounge - Denied Access

<snip> having an agreement in place with each of these airlines for lounge access is not a cheap exercise. </snip>

Qantas doesn't need agreements with any airline to let its own customer into its own lounge.

 

[RooFlyer]

But when flying CX, a passenger isn't Qantas's customer! That's the whole point.

 

[mannej]

Re: Qantas Club Lounge - Denied Access

Qantas doesn't need agreements with any airline to let its own customer into its own lounge.

2 things-

1) You don't think QF would not oncharge the cost of lounge access to the "partner" airline?

2) That may be true for outstations such as HKG or SIN, but what if it were an outstation with a Qantas lounge?

So a member purchases a SYD-LHR(QF)-NCL(BA) ticket on the QF site as a QP member wouldn't have lounge access between swapping flights at LHR, yet someone who purchases a SYD-HKG(QF)-MNL(CX) on the same site would get access at HKG or MNL on the way back? You have just created an inconsistency here have you not?

 

[medhead]

Someone was confused by support for the OP. On a nutshell I support their point about the bad rules because it is a qantas lounge (not partner lounge), they have paid qantas for lounge access and that access should extent to flights on Qantas' close Oneworld partners where Qantas don't offer own metal and Qantas owns the lounge.

The precedent is allowing lounge access when flying with EK, in limited situations, for QP members.

 

[medhead]

But when flying CX, a passenger isn't Qantas's customer! That's the whole point.

Qantas sold them the CX flight