Qantas club denied Qantas lounge access on partner award bookings?

[NZflygirl]

Doing some reading across forums it appears if you have qantas club membership but use Qantas points to book a partner aware eg FJ, that you don't have Qantas lounge access on departure. But a paid FJ flight ticketed by Qantas you do get a QF ticket number and have QF lounge access.

I've read this is due to a one world? practice where award tickets are of the operating airline regardless of booking via the Qantas website.

I had a quick squiz at the Qantas website and haven't found this rule for Qantas club members where you're denied access if you use points but not if you pay cash. Has anyone else seen this rule? And it doesn't sound like there is any pop up warning when booking with Qantas points for Qantas club members. So you'd only know this after your purchase. IMO the big draw card of Qantas club membership is actually lounge access. What happens on a points + pay type option? Access or no access?

It also seems Air NZ don't treat their Koru members this way. Partner awards booked via Air NZ are apparently given NZ ticket numbers. I'll need to check my emails to verify.

I'm curious what VA's practice is with points bookings and lounge access if you have a VA membership without status. I'm assuming you're still allowed lounge access departing Australia given VA's partnerships but I'd like to hear peoples lived experience.

For the situations above lets assume no status and economy award bookings.

If its not written in black and white on the Qantas website I think Qantas at the very bare minimum should highlight this on their website (you know they'll bury it in the fine print) AND have a pop up window during booking.

Alternatively they could change the rules and allow access on award flights for Qantas points booking on FJ. Seems they already allow it on paid FJ flights with QF numbers. And Qantas club members do I think largely pay for the membership for lounge access, and it's their own Qantas lounge so, I'm not really convinced it's one world stopping lounge access.

Would appreciate peoples thoughts and answers, lived experiences.

 

[serfty]

Sadly, you need to be on a QF flight number in respect of now oneworld partners other than EK or Jetstar.

Some have said there are no codeshare awards.

It is what it is.

The VA rules vary by partner and you need to carefully check before booking:

International lounge access

Discover our network of partner airline-operated lounges, available for access when traveling on flights operated by our esteemed international partners.

www.virginaustralia.com

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Doing some reading across forums it appears if you have qantas club membership but use Qantas points to book a partner aware eg FJ, that you don't have Qantas lounge access on departure. But a paid FJ flight ticketed by Qantas you do get a QF ticket number and have QF lounge access.

I've read this is due to a one world? practice where award tickets are of the operating airline regardless of booking via the Qantas website.

I had a quick squiz at the Qantas website and haven't found this rule for Qantas club members where you're denied access if you use points but not if you pay cash. Has anyone else seen this rule? And it doesn't sound like there is any pop up warning when booking with Qantas points for Qantas club members. So you'd only know this after your purchase. IMO the big draw card of Qantas club membership is actually lounge access. What happens on a points + pay type option? Access or no access?

It also seems Air NZ don't treat their Koru members this way. Partner awards booked via Air NZ are apparently given NZ ticket numbers. I'll need to check my emails to verify.

I'm curious what VA's practice is with points bookings and lounge access if you have a VA membership without status. I'm assuming you're still allowed lounge access departing Australia given VA's partnerships but I'd like to hear peoples lived experience.

For the situations above lets assume no status and economy award bookings.

If its not written in black and white on the Qantas website I think Qantas at the very bare minimum should highlight this on their website (you know they'll bury it in the fine print) AND have a pop up window during booking.

Alternatively they could change the rules and allow access on award flights for Qantas points booking on FJ. Seems they already allow it on paid FJ flights with QF numbers. And Qantas club members do I think largely pay for the membership for lounge access, and it's their own Qantas lounge so, I'm not really convinced it's one world stopping lounge access.

Would appreciate peoples thoughts and answers, lived experiences.

It’s a quirk of award bookings, which are almost always *never* sold as the codeshare flight number. They’re usually the prime flight number of the operating carrier.

Given your boarding pass will say ‘FJ’, qantas club rules say no entry.

With a paid ticket, and on a Qantas flight number, you may have had access. If you had bought an FJ ticket via the FJ website, flying on an FJ flight number, you wouldn’t have had access with qantas club. And that’s basically what you have as an award.

Referencing you Air NZ observations… ticket stock (NZ ticket number) is different to the NZ flight number. Air NZ could issue you a ticket for travel on United. It could be an NZ ticket number, but the award seat almost certainly won’t be NZxx_x, it would be UAxx_

 

[justinbrett]

Qantas Club is pretty rubbish for any international travel. Best to think of it as a domestic program, IMO.

It doesn't make sense to me that NZ rewards are on NZ codes, as the vast majority of *A flights do not have NZ codes. Maybe some are, but I would have thought they were the minority.

Non one world partners of QF sometimes get QF codes on rewards (eg TN).

 

[NZflygirl]

I just did a dummy booking for points which brought up the T&C of the award ticket on FJ. There are awards available but it comes up with an FJ flight number. I go to the paid section and note it's a QF flight number on FJ. I haven't had time to read it properly but I think it might "elude" to the flight number issue but it's really not clear.

Thanks for the VA section which I hadn't read yet. It seems VA paid membership doesn't allow access so its easy to guess points don't either for economy.

I recall a case, can't recall if it was NZ or Australia where the rules about cancelling gym memberships were buried in the T&C of the contract but it really wasn't made clear at the time and now they have to be clear when you sign up regarding cancellation rules.

I'll look at it a bit better later but at first glance it's really not coming across very clear that with Qantas club membership you won't be allowed lounge access if you use qantas points to book FJ. And when you primarily buy Qantas club for lounge access I think it should be made clear you can only book qantas flights for lounge access when using points. And the whole flight number thing needs to be loud and clear.

I might print it out and read it tomorrow. And check some other cases but I don't think ithe T&Cs are very clear. They don't seem obvious for Qantas club membership either but maybe i need to see if that fine print is buried somewhere.

 

[justinbrett]

I just did a dummy booking for points which brought up the T&C of the award ticket on FJ. There are awards available but it comes up with an FJ flight number. I go to the paid section and note it's a QF flight number on FJ. I haven't had time to read it properly but I think it might "elude" to the flight number issue but it's really not clear.

There doesn't need to be T&Cs on the ticket. It just has to clearly list the flight with a FJ flight number - which it does. It even displays a warning:


The T&Cs to exclude access to the lounge are in the Qantas Club T&Cs

 

[MEL_Traveller]

On the Qantas Club eligibility page, the rules are spelled out:

Things to know​

Qantas Club members have access to the largest Australian and international lounge network of any Australian airline.
Each time your next onward flight that day is on a Qantas or Jetstar flight number you will have access to:

• Qantas Club lounges when travelling within Australia*.
• Qantas International Business Lounges when travelling overseas.
• Emirates Business Lounge in Dubai.
• American Airlines® Admirals Club lounges. Visit American AirlinesOpens in a new tab or window for lounge locations.
• Alaska Airlines lounges in Los Angeles, Seattle, Anchorage and Portland when connecting to or from a Qantas flight and an Alaska Airlines flight.
• Associated lounges in most international ports where there is no Qantas or partner airline lounge.
• When you arrive at a lounge, show your Qantas Club card along with your ticket or boarding pass.

It says ‘next onward flight is on a Qantas or Jetstar flight number’.

And right under that:

Lounge access​

As a Qantas Club member you need to book a Qantas (QF) flight number to access Qantas and partner lounges when travelling in Economy on our partner airlines including Emirates.
QF flight numbers are available on all Emirates flights to and from Australia and New Zealand, the majority of destinations between Dubai, Europe and the Middle East, as well as key destinations in Africa. So, to make the most of your membership and enjoy lounge access before you fly, simply book the QF flight number.
Qantas Club members will continue to be able to access the Qantas Club lounges when their next onward flight on that day is on a Qantas or Jetstar flight number.


This isn't the terms and conditions, but the main pages.

(Interestingly, and as a side bar, it doesn’t mention reciprocal access to AA lounges!)

 

[NZflygirl]

It’s a quirk of award bookings, which are almost always *never* sold as the codeshare flight number. They’re usually the prime flight number of the operating carrier.

Given your boarding pass will say ‘FJ’, qantas club rules say no entry.

With a paid ticket, and on a Qantas flight number, you may have had access. If you had bought an FJ ticket via the FJ website, flying on an FJ flight number, you wouldn’t have had access with qantas club. And that’s basically what you have as an award.

Referencing you Air NZ observations… ticket stock (NZ ticket number) is different to the NZ flight number. Air NZ could issue you a ticket for travel on United. It could be an NZ ticket number, but the award seat almost certainly won’t be NZxx_x, it would be UAxx_

Quirk is about right. But you've paid for lounge access with Qantas club, they've used Qantas points. Qantas are in control of their own lounge access. It really comes across as QC members being punished for using points.

Yes the Air NZ ticket stock is different from the flight number rules for Qantas. But at the end of the day paid koru members can access their own lounge on a NZ ticket issued even if flying a partner airline eg CX, it's only on certain routes. So flight numbers vs ticket stock is just a technicality. The outcomes is that koru members have access to their Air NZ lounge even flying CX. because they're issued on NZ ticket stock even using airpoint dollars. I only have someone elses data point for this but will see if I can find more.

Qantas Club is pretty rubbish for any international travel. Best to think of it as a domestic program, IMO.

It doesn't make sense to me that NZ rewards are on NZ codes, as the vast majority of *A flights do not have NZ codes. Maybe some are, but I would have thought they were the minority.

Non one world partners of QF sometimes get QF codes on rewards (eg TN).

With the Air NZ koru membership you seem to get benefits as long as you're issued an NZ ticket number which they apparently do for award flights. And if you're trying to get access to your own Air NZ lounge then it's allowed. I have some APD bookings from previous so I will hunt down those emails to confirm the NZ ticket (which is different from the seemingly flight rule that one world/qantas have). This is really about paid memberships.

It just seems unfair to have a paid membership to get into a qantas lounge and you can pay for your flight, get a QF flight number on FJ but once you use points, you get an FJ flight number and you don't get access to your own paid lounge membership despite using QF points. I think Qantas is likely in control of that rule given it's their paid membership and their lounge. Why would FJ care if they're not paying for the lounge access?

 

[Austman]

I'm QF platinum and used points to fly FJ.

The QF ticket shows it as a FJ flight.

Definitely no QF lounge access for me.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

It just seems unfair to have a paid membership to get into a qantas lounge and you can pay for your flight, get a QF flight number on FJ but once you use points, you get an FJ flight number and you don't get access to your own paid lounge membership despite using QF points. I think Qantas is likely in control of that rule given it's their paid membership and their lounge. Why would FJ care if they're not paying for the lounge access?

but if you get an award seat to fiji on a qantas operated flight, you’d have access.

The Koru Club partner benefits are listed here: Koru benefits

There are selected flights, only on certain routes, that allow, as you say, Koru Club members to access air new zealand lounges. But they must still be flying on an Air New Zealand flight number, even if that’s a codeshare, OR, on an air new zealand operated aircraft.

In your case above with fiji, it’s neither a qantas flight number, nor a qantas operated aircraft. So even under Koru rules, it might not make the cut

 

[NZflygirl]

There doesn't need to be T&Cs on the ticket. It just has to clearly list the flight with a FJ flight number - which it does. It even displays a warning:
View attachment 389745

The T&Cs to exclude access to the lounge are in the Qantas Club T&Cs

I did my dummy booking through to the page where it came up with T&Cs when booking the ticket so this pop up box must be on a page further along.

On the Qantas Club eligibility page, the rules are spelled out:

Things to know​

Qantas Club members have access to the largest Australian and international lounge network of any Australian airline.
Each time your next onward flight that day is on a Qantas or Jetstar flight number you will have access to:

• Qantas Club lounges when travelling within Australia*.
• Qantas International Business Lounges when travelling overseas.
• Emirates Business Lounge in Dubai.
• American Airlines® Admirals Club lounges. Visit American AirlinesOpens in a new tab or window for lounge locations.
• Alaska Airlines lounges in Los Angeles, Seattle, Anchorage and Portland when connecting to or from a Qantas flight and an Alaska Airlines flight.
• Associated lounges in most international ports where there is no Qantas or partner airline lounge.
• When you arrive at a lounge, show your Qantas Club card along with your ticket or boarding pass.

It says ‘next onward flight is on a Qantas or Jetstar flight number’.

And right under that:

Lounge access​

As a Qantas Club member you need to book a Qantas (QF) flight number to access Qantas and partner lounges when travelling in Economy on our partner airlines including Emirates.
QF flight numbers are available on all Emirates flights to and from Australia and New Zealand, the majority of destinations between Dubai, Europe and the Middle East, as well as key destinations in Africa. So, to make the most of your membership and enjoy lounge access before you fly, simply book the QF flight number.
Qantas Club members will continue to be able to access the Qantas Club lounges when their next onward flight on that day is on a Qantas or Jetstar flight number.


This isn't the terms and conditions, but the main pages.

(Interestingly, and as a side bar, it doesn’t mention reciprocal access to AA lounges!)

I still think this is confusing because people are so aware of codeshares and that flights can have several different airline flight numbers. When you book with paid Qantas on an FJ flight you get a Qantas number. But when you use Qantas points you get an FJ number. It's Qantas's own currency and lounge.

What really needs to be spelled out is that you don't have Qantas lounge access when you use Qantas points on a partner airline despite paying for Qantas club. That is a black and white sentence to me. If there are exceptions then list those. Do you think this is a much clearer wording for people to understand??

 

[justinbrett]

With the Air NZ koru membership you seem to get benefits as long as you're issued an NZ ticket number which they apparently do for award flights.

Well again, I just can't see how that's true since most *A flights don't have NZ codeshares. I guess it's possible the system books the NZ flight where possible otherwise the operating carrier, but seems highly unlikely. Now if the NZ policy is to allow access to NZ lounges for all flights then that's a different matter, and that's not something offered by QF (or most airlines).

I did my dummy booking through to the page where it came up with T&Cs when booking the ticket so this pop up box must be on a page further along.

No, that shows up on the flight result pages when you're searching for revenue flights and select a reward option, since on this page the flights have QF numbers. The warning shows up if you select the reward option to show it will be different.

If you just search the reward options they show FJ numbers so no warning is necessary. At no point do you see the QF code.

What really needs to be spelled out is that you don't have Qantas lounge access when you use Qantas points on a partner airline despite paying for Qantas club. That is a black and white sentence to me. If there are exceptions then list those. Do you think this is a much clearer wording for people to understand??

You're getting hung up on booking reward flights but really it's no different than booking the flight directly through the other carrier (FJ).

The exclusion is booking a flight without a QF number, and that is made clear in the T&Cs. It would be unnecessarily complicating things to start talking about rewards.

And there's nothing special about Qantas Club, the same exclusion applies to QF SG/WP+ and OWS/R.

 

[NZflygirl]

Air NZ have a partnership with CX on the AKL to HKG route. The Air NZ website says koru members have lounge access through Air NZ and used to have lounge access (non CX) I think departing HKG. That's changed apparently but it's still on the website. Asking on another forum someone looked back at their Air NZ award ticket and it had an Air NZ ticket number when flying *A so Air NZ does issue the award on NZ ticket stock which is the requirement for lounge access. Lounge access is not linked to the flight number, it's the ticket issuer which is a technicality. At the end of the day Koru members will get lounge access flying CX. I'll have to check but I think SQ aircraft and to Singapore is also included and United on certain routes.

Here's the air nz page regarding certain partner airlines in particular. They do list NZ flight numbers on CX.

Seems we searched for flights via different methods.

I'm referring to awards because that seems to be the point of difference. Pay cash on the same website and same airlines and you get lounge access. Use points via the same website, same airlines and you suddenly get an FJ flight number despite there being a codeshare on the paid option.

Whilst it may come down to wording, haven't Qantas been pulled up by the ACCC for unfair practices? Can't recall if it was refunds during covid or something? I don't know but suspect Qantas may have worded it correctly but they still got pulled up right?

I'd be interested to hear if Qantas club members think the wording could be better on the website. Eg just say, if you use Qantas points on a partner airline you do not have Qantas lounge access. Then list the exceptions if necessary. I think this is much clearer than the current wording.

 

[serfty]

I'd be interested to hear if Qantas club members think the wording could be better on the website. Eg just say, if you use Qantas points on a partner airline you do not have Qantas lounge access. Then list the exceptions if necessary. I think this is much clearer than the current wording.

I first joined QP in 1994.

Back then you could effectively enter anytime. The benefits have been eroded over the decades.

The rules are a lot better than they used to be. These days if the criteria indicates you have access then it is so. Other than that, no access.

 

[encryptededdy]

Important here to make a distinction between ticket number and flight number.

Both Qantas and AirNZ partner awards will be issued with a Qantas (081) or AirNZ (086) ticket number. However, they are not necessarily issued with a QF or NZ flight number.

If anything, the way Koru membership works is significantly more confusing.

Qantas Club: QF flight number is all that's required. Does not have to be Qantas (081) ticket.

Koru: Needs to be NZ flight & ticket number (if you book a NZ flight with a different airline (cash or award), or a RTW or something, you are not eligible as it won't be a 086 ticket). If not operated by AirNZ, this only applies to specific routes with Air China, Cathay, Singapore Airlines, and United Airlines.

As far as I know, the AirNZ partner award portal (Partner Airline reward flights) will not book onto NZ flight numbers, and thus you won't be eligible for Koru access for anything you book there.

Of course, you can book a cash fare on a NZ flight number (but not operated by NZ) and pay with Airpoints Dollars and get lounge access with Koru - but you can do the same with Qantas, just use Points + Pay for a QF coded (operated by FJ) flight, and you can access the Qantas lounge with Qantas Club membership.

Regarding the wording of the rules, I would say that they should actually simplify it further. There are only two conditions to check:

1. Is your flight on a QF or JQ flight number?
2. Does the airport terminal you're departing from have a lounge that Qantas partners with or operates?

that's it. where you booked doesn't matter. who issued the ticket doesn't matter. the operating airline doesn't matter. I think you may be confusing yourself by digging too deep into it. If they didn't mention reward flights, it's because reward flights don't affect QC eligibility directly.

 

[justinbrett]

Air NZ have a partnership with CX on the AKL to HKG route. The Air NZ website says koru members have lounge access through Air NZ and used to have lounge access (non CX) I think departing HKG. That's changed apparently but it's still on the website. Asking on another forum someone looked back at their Air NZ award ticket and it had an Air NZ ticket number when flying *A so Air NZ does issue the award on NZ ticket stock which is the requirement for lounge access. Lounge access is not linked to the flight number, it's the ticket issuer which is a technicality. At the end of the day Koru members will get lounge access flying CX. I'll have to check but I think SQ aircraft and to Singapore is also included and United on certain routes.

Here's the air nz page regarding certain partner airlines in particular. They do list NZ flight numbers on CX.

Seems we searched for flights via different methods.

I'm referring to awards because that seems to be the point of difference. Pay cash on the same website and same airlines and you get lounge access. Use points via the same website, same airlines and you suddenly get an FJ flight number despite there being a codeshare on the paid option.

Whilst it may come down to wording, haven't Qantas been pulled up by the ACCC for unfair practices? Can't recall if it was refunds during covid or something? I don't know but suspect Qantas may have worded it correctly but they still got pulled up right?

I'd be interested to hear if Qantas club members think the wording could be better on the website. Eg just say, if you use Qantas points on a partner airline you do not have Qantas lounge access. Then list the exceptions if necessary. I think this is much clearer than the current wording.

There's a big difference between ticket numbers and flight numbers. It's the flight number that counts, not the ticket number. So I don't know who you're getting advice from but I would doubt *A rewards use the NZ codeshare. CX perhaps because they are not an alliance member, just like QF rewards on TN book with QF codes.

NZ has specific policies for certain routes. The way I read it, if you book a UA flight from SYD to LAX you would not get lounge access, even with a NZ lounge in SYD. QF has special policies too, they just don't extend to FJ.

I think you're reaching to start labelling it unfair practices. The simple fact is Qantas Club has limited use, that's why it's a big jump to get Gold status which unlocks alliance wide lounge access (though for now that won't include FJ, but will soon).

 

[encryptededdy]

If anything, I think Koru has the potentially unfair and unintuitive practice here. If you booked a flight with a NZ flight number and operated by AirNZ, you may still not get lounge access if your ticket is issued by another airline. For instance, you book an award flight on AirNZ with Krisflyer miles, or you book a RTW fare on the Star Alliance website (I believe these are ticketed by Lufthansa) - in both these cases you can fly on an AirNZ plane with NZ flight number but still not have lounge access with your Koru membership.

I think the United Club and Maple Leaf Club Worldwide paid lounge memberships are much better in this regard, as they allow access on all Star Alliance operated flights*

*Well, mostly. They don't grant access to contract lounges whereas Star Alliance Gold does grant access most of the time, so that's a whole new can of worms.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

What really needs to be spelled out is that you don't have Qantas lounge access when you use Qantas points on a partner airline despite paying for Qantas club. That is a black and white sentence to me. If there are exceptions then list those. Do you think this is a much clearer wording for people to understand??

No need for exceptions, because it clearly says qantas or jetstar flight number.

everything else is excluded.

There may be people who are familiar with other programs, such as Air NZ. But you can’t base all your literature on how non-Qantas programs work. It really can’t get more simple than ‘your next flight must have a qantas or jetstar number’?

 

[NZflygirl]

It's certainly a lot to mull over and I have thoughts which I'll reply with later. But I need to finish packing a few things. I never thought I'd fly Qantas to the US but this next trip makes it my 4th and 5th Qantas international flights and i've been a QFF member for I think 9 yrs. I'm shocked I'm even doing that. Trans tasman doesn't count to me. A lot has changed in the time I've been with them and I don't know all the nooks and crannies of the program. But I haven't gone looking for them either. Only the bits I needed to use immediately.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

It's certainly a lot to mull over and I have thoughts which I'll reply with later. But I need to finish packing a few things. I never thought I'd fly Qantas to the US but this next trip makes it my 4th and 5th Qantas international flights and i've been a QFF member for I think 9 yrs. I'm shocked I'm even doing that. Trans tasman doesn't count to me. A lot has changed in the time I've been with them and I don't know all the nooks and crannies of the program. But I haven't gone looking for them either. Only the bits I needed to use immediately.

Well, on Qantas to the USA you’ll have no problems

General question from me to AFF… all the literature I’m reading now seems to make no reference to QF club reciprocal access to AA lounges when travelling solely on AA codes flights?