Qantas Customer (we don't) Care communication re cancelled award flights

[smckay]

I really had to share this, even though all I'm doing is wasting airwave space.

Received an email from QF Customer 'care' this morning, responding to a complaint lodged and apologising for 2 rewards flights being cancelled, after they had already cancelled one other leg of this same trip.
Background:
Being a VIP Platinum FF with QF I big noted myself to my sister telling her I'd sort her for a RTW J trip to see her sons in UK and Canada. Bad start, right?
Hours and hours of searching I found this route;
SYD-PVG-HEL-LHR on QF to PVG then Finnair to LHR. Booked about 10 months out for travel in May 2024.
All was good until QF AY* flight changes late last year meant an overnight in PVG, China. I requested a same-day QF seat be released to meet the AY flight, which went into waitlist.
Then, the AY PVG-HEL flight disappeared. No comms from QF. So I call them up, finally get HBA. Whilst the lady was helpful, she actually did nothing to help find a flight and it was me trolling all available rewards flights to make something fit. Finally, after nearly 2 hours, she basically said "Listen luv if you can't find a flight now you'll have to call us back when you do". Huh? YOU caused the problem and YOU want ME to find a fix? No offer of letting go another QF seat. After words to that effect, she then stated she could try the One World help desk to see if AY would re-release the same seat. It took 2 hours to get to that point!
Luckily, AY is not QF and the reward seat was re-instated. Thanks for the aggro Qantas. And I never did get a reply on the waitlist seat.
But, we still had the overnight issue so fast forward to March this year and I see Malaysian and BA J seats that fit; not great, into KUL, 3 hour transit then into SIN then 24 hour layover for BA to LHR. Ok, it fits, she's on Holiday time and they are big seats.
So, we book it. All good, tax refund due and received, ticket gets emailed, all is back on track.
Until it wasn't.
Late March this year, the Malaysia flights both disappear. No comms, nothing from QF. Back onto the phone to HBA. No more Mr nice guy, I changed to WP mode and basically said DYKWIA and fix it and fix it good. If you cannot get the Malaysia flights back then my expectation is QF will have her in Singapore to meet the BA flight. This call was a LOT shorter.
Again, back to the One World help desk (I presume) and Budda Bing 3 days later the Malaysia flights are back. Seems 'someone' in QF didn't tick a box that needed ticking and the flights auto-cancelled.

Flights are in 2.5 weeks so I am anxiously watching daily for changes

I find it amazing that 2 other carriers can accommodate another carriers' FF and re-release rewards seats that have disappeared. Can you imagine QF doing that? Bot says No. They even state they'll only plonk us on the Classic reward that is available - approximately in September 2027 based on current searches.
Also, the emails have been weeks apart - not comforting when accommodation, trips, cars, etc need to be booked to finalise plans.
I especially am comforted by their 'concern' that the two Malaysian flights had disappeared. Really? I bet not as concerned as my 60yo sister was when trying to travel around the world by herself.
I think they missed the point - it wasn't the app having issues, it was the flights missing from the app that was the issue.

I've been a loyal QF member since October 1995 and have probably not flown with QF a handful of times. I struggled up to Platinum by taking multiple leg flights to go to places and I really am not seeing any value in terms of flight rewards. I now have an extra 10,000 points to spend on a toaster because there's f-all chance of me jagging a J seat to anywhere I need a passport for.

How can such a great business drop so low in Customer care? I got this kind of stuff when I was Bronze and thought a Platinum might get something better.

* Edit: AY change the flight schedule, not QF so QF said too bad.

 

[elanshin]

I really had to share this, even though all I'm doing is wasting airwave space.

Received an email from QF Customer 'care' this morning, responding to a complaint lodged and apologising for 2 rewards flights being cancelled, after they had already cancelled one other leg of this same trip.
Background:
Being a VIP Platinum FF with QF I big noted myself to my sister telling her I'd sort her for a RTW J trip to see her sons in UK and Canada. Bad start, right?
Hours and hours of searching I found this route;
SYD-PVG-HEL-LHR on QF to PVG then Finnair to LHR. Booked about 10 months out for travel in May 2024.
All was good until QF flight changes late last year meant an overnight in PVG, China. I requested a same-day QF seat be released to meet the AY flight, which went into waitlist.
Then, the AY PVG-HEL flight disappeared. No comms from QF. So I call them up, finally get HBA. Whilst the lady was helpful, she actually did nothing to help find a flight and it was me trolling all available rewards flights to make something fit. Finally, after nearly 2 hours, she basically said "Listen luv if you can't find a flight now you'll have to call us back when you do". Huh? YOU caused the problem and YOU want ME to find a fix? No offer of letting go another QF seat. After words to that effect, she then stated she could try the One World help desk to see if AY would re-release the same seat. It took 2 hours to get to that point!
Luckily, AY is not QF and the reward seat was re-instated. Thanks for the aggro Qantas. And I never did get a reply on the waitlist seat.
But, we still had the overnight issue so fast forward to March this year and I see Malaysian and BA J seats that fit; not great, into KUL, 3 hour transit then into SIN then 24 hour layover for BA to LHR. Ok, it fits, she's on Holiday time and they are big seats.
So, we book it. All good, tax refund due and received, ticket gets emailed, all is back on track.
Until it wasn't.
Late March this year, the Malaysia flights both disappear. No comms, nothing from QF. Back onto the phone to HBA. No more Mr nice guy, I changed to WP mode and basically said DYKWIA and fix it and fix it good. If you cannot get the Malaysia flights back then my expectation is QF will have her in Singapore to meet the BA flight. This call was a LOT shorter.
Again, back to the One World help desk (I presume) and Budda Bing 3 days later the Malaysia flights are back. Seems 'someone' in QF didn't tick a box that needed ticking and the flights auto-cancelled.

Flights are in 2.5 weeks so I am anxiously watching daily for changes

I find it amazing that 2 other carriers can accommodate another carriers' FF and re-release rewards seats that have disappeared. Can you imagine QF doing that? Bot says No. They even state they'll only plonk us on the Classic reward that is available - approximately in September 2027 based on current searches.
Also, the emails have been weeks apart - not comforting when accommodation, trips, cars, etc need to be booked to finalise plans.
I especially am comforted by their 'concern' that the two Malaysian flights had disappeared. Really? I bet not as concerned as my 60yo sister was when trying to travel around the world by herself.
I think they missed the point - it wasn't the app having issues, it was the flights missing from the app that was the issue.

I've been a loyal QF member since October 1995 and have probably not flown with QF a handful of times. I struggled up to Platinum by taking multiple leg flights to go to places and I really am not seeing any value in terms of flight rewards. I now have an extra 10,000 points to spend on a toaster because there's f-all chance of me jagging a J seat to anywhere I need a passport for.

How can such a great business drop so low in Customer care? I got this kind of stuff when I was Bronze and thought a Platinum might get something better.

Seems you have run into the "QF didn't ticket properly in time" problem. A lot of this is likely in the QF call centers are notorious for it and it falls in the category of "you need to be in the know " which sadly meant that lots of people are falling into the cracks.

In regards to the original PVG schedule change, that should've been grounds for QF to change their own inventory - likely you hit a foreign agent who didn't know what they're doing or had the authority - sadly should've been a HUACA situation (which in reality it really shouldn't need HUACA, but thats the current state of things).

The Malaysian flights likely weren't ticketed properly so they disappeared. I think you should count yourself lucky that the seats were restored as there has been lots of stories where they weren't.

For future reference, the best way to try and protect your flights is to check for ticketing via other OW airlines. Qantas' own app/booking will only show "confirmed" which doesnt actually mean anything. Any time any changes are made, you need to get them to re-ticket immediately especially when partner airlines are involved (notoriously MH and CX are among the ones that need immediate I believe). Any request to change anything to the OWA needs to be reticketed.

Cathay's MMB will show whether the ticket is actually issued or not. If it's showing as not issued (and the reason isn't because that airline made a schedule change), there needs to be an immediate call back to get the ticket issued.

As sad as the state of things are, these are the precautions that needs to happen.

Edit: I believe Plat is the reason you got through to agents that could even potentially be able to do this for you. if it was bronze you'd probably be still waiting for a resolution.

 

[smckay]

In regards to the original PVG schedule change, that should've been grounds for QF to change their own inventory - likely you hit a foreign agent who didn't know what they're doing or had the authority - sadly should've been a HUACA situation (which in reality it really shouldn't need HUACA, but thats the current state of things).

The Malaysian flights likely weren't ticketed properly so they disappeared. I think you should count yourself lucky that the seats were restored as there has been lots of stories where they weren't.

For future reference, the best way to try and protect your flights is to check for ticketing via other OW airlines. Qantas' own app/booking will only show "confirmed" which doesnt actually mean anything. Any time any changes are made, you need to get them to re-ticket immediately especially when partner airlines are involved (notoriously MH and CX are among the ones that need immediate I believe). Any request to change anything to the OWA needs to be reticketed.

Cathay's MMB will show whether the ticket is actually issued or not. If it's showing as not issued (and the reason isn't because that airline made a schedule change), there needs to be an immediate call back to get the ticket issued.

As sad as the state of things are, these are the precautions that needs to happen.

Edit: I believe Plat is the reason you got through to agents that could even potentially be able to do this for you. if it was bronze you'd probably be still waiting for a resolution.

All calls are to HBA. I try not to deal with any other call centre.

The schedule change (was actually of AY doing I put that as QF incorrectly) was dissed as 'too bad', and I was welcomed to look for another reward seat. This particular agent was known to the many others I spoke to as being ............ and she wasn't doing nothing in the looking for another flight department.

The Malaysian flights were ticketed! We got a pdf ticket with confirmed all over it. I also selected seats on both flights through Malaysia MMB.

Regardless of status, this is poor performance from a monopoly business.

 

[elanshin]

All calls are to HBA. I try not to deal with any other call centre.

The schedule change (was actually of AY doing I put that as QF incorrectly) was dissed as 'too bad', and I was welcomed to look for another reward seat. This particular agent was known to the many others I spoke to as being ............ and she wasn't doing nothing in the looking for another flight department.

The Malaysian flights were ticketed! We got a pdf ticket with confirmed all over it. I also selected seats on both flights through Malaysia MMB.

Regardless of status, this is poor performance from a monopoly business.

Hmm the original AY would make it a bit trickier for QF to accommodate as it's really AY's problem so I can kind of understand QF's reluctance to release a ticket themselves.
That said the agent's behaviour was definitely not acceptable.

With the MH situation, as silly as it sounds, I managed to send myself e-tickets for my own OWA whilst I had flights in flux and not actually ticketed, so it is possible to receive a "confirmed" e-ticket without everything being ticketed. Although being able to select seats generally means it was ticketed, unless a minor schedule change happened recently that unconfirmed it from MH. (Which would also explain why they were able to get the seats back as MH is notorious for not giving back seats apparently).

Still hopefully the trip itself will go according to plan. I definitely do agree that the current customer service when calling can be severely lacking at times.

Really we shouldn't need the HUACA acronym.

 

[tdimdad]

The Malaysian flights were ticketed! We got a pdf ticket with confirmed all over it. I also selected seats on both flights through Malaysia MMB.

However counterintuitive it is, only once you see an actual e-ticket number, the booking has been properly processed. Before that, even if the status is 'Confirmed', it is still uncertain.

On QF's own itineraries, there is a field for that in the PDF file. If that's populated, you're good to go.


Elanshin referred to external sites, e.g. CX, for confirming the status. One that's often used is rj.com (Royal Jordanian) and this is what you'd find there.


Hopefully the current bookings now stick and your sister can enjoy a great trip!

 

[smckay]

However counterintuitive it is, only once you see an actual e-ticket number, the booking has been properly processed. Before that, even if the status is 'Confirmed', it is still uncertain.

On QF's own itineraries, there is a field for that in the PDF file. If that's populated, you're good to go.
View attachment 379364

Elanshin referred to external sites, e.g. CX, for confirming the status. One that's often used is rj.com (Royal Jordanian) and this is what you'd find there.
View attachment 379363

Hopefully the current bookings now stick and your sister can enjoy a great trip!

Good call and one I wasn’t aware of. The e-ticket received was actually an itinerary receipt and does not have the actual ticket number or costs populated. The last one had all that gaff. Rookie mistake learned.
Made me check my own current OWA deets and it is an e-ticket itinerary and receipt. For those playing at home, seems to be a crucial thing to check.

Still hating on Qantas but

 

[RooFlyer]

I've been a loyal QF member since October 1995 and have probably not flown with QF a handful of times. I struggled up to Platinum by taking multiple leg flights to go to places and I really am not seeing any value in terms of flight rewards.

Stop. being. loyal. to. Qantas ( or any other business, really). They will not reciprocate below P1 and platinum is now the new silver in terms of benefits and service.

By all means fly them, collect points and use the points on toasters; just please don’t think in terms of 'loyalty'.

 

[smckay]

Stop. being. loyal. to. Qantas ( or any other business, really). They will not reciprocate below P1 and platinum is now the new silver in terms of benefits and service.

By all means fly them, collect points and use the points on toasters; just please don’t think in terms of 'loyalty'.

You know what, I am one disappointment away from doing this.
But for me I choose Qantas for their safety record so the $RRP whilst painful would become somewhat irrelevant in a mid air issue.
But, as you have pointed out loyalty and status means nothing and flying J on BFOD will give me the perks I seek (a lounge with a shower) so I am very much fence sitting right now but tilting more to the side opposite QF.

 

[aikman]

Status runners and card churners thanks you for subsidising their WP status and OWA redemptions.

 

[smckay]

Status runners and card churners thanks you for subsidising their WP status and OWA redemptions.

Lol. That’s me. I’ll give myself a slapping. And apply for a VA-earning card.

 

[stm1sydney]

You know what, I am one disappointment away from doing this.
But for me I choose Qantas for their safety record so the $RRP whilst painful would become somewhat irrelevant in a mid air issue.

There are so many Qantas customers just "one more disappointment" away from walking. Just do it!

Qantas' safety record should not be a factor because all of the top 10 or 20 airlines are extremely safe, vastly more safe than going for a drive on the Hume Highway. Qantas being minutely more safe than the others is not significant.

 

[Ade]

Cathay's MMB will show whether the ticket is actually issued or not

What is the status one needs to see on the CX MMB to know if the ticket is issued or not. I have a MH CR Y booked using QF points on QF website coming up and in both QF MMB and CX MMB I see the status as "Confirmed".

Replying to my question - @tdimdad 's response answered it. I can see a etkt number in the QF PDF, in CX MMB and RJ MMB.

However counterintuitive it is, only once you see an actual e-ticket number, the booking has been properly processed. Before that, even if the status is 'Confirmed', it is still uncertain.

On QF's own itineraries, there is a field for that in the PDF file. If that's populated, you're good to go.

Elanshin referred to external sites, e.g. CX, for confirming the status. One that's often used is rj.com (Royal Jordanian) and this is what you'd find there.

Hopefully the current bookings now stick and your sister can enjoy a great trip!

 

[RichardMEL]

I agree. Even as P1, I see fewer and fewer reasons to stay engaged(I pick this word as opposed to "loyal") with QFF - most specially at the SG and WP level.

I woukd note that there is that certain aspect of "the game" that is a big unknown. Given the constantly changing landscape - how longer will the grassbe greener at alternatives - be it VA, BA, SQ etc.

There's some commentary to just leave etc, and that's understandable, but some may feel there is a mixture of "investment" already made (say you're 8k SC towards LTG or engagement in the ecosystem via partner tie ups, accrued points balances etc) and "better the devil you know" almost. Starting somewhere new can be daunting - specially at the bottom.

BFOD is a great notion, and makes a lot of sense specially for those who can pay for premium cabins. Sure, one doesn't need to credit to any program and be free, but mist of us woukd find it hard not to try and get something more out of it bar the simple service paid for since we're used to the game. Figuring where and a strategy can be daunting - specially if starting new in a program.

I can see why some may be reluctant to change. Each person's situation and goals will be different also, making the choices very individual.

 

[RooFlyer]

Starting somewhere new can be daunting - specially at the bottom.

Which is where the status matches come in of course. VA's "switcheroo" the December befor last was perfectly timed for me.

And I retained platinum with virgin after about nine months with domestic flying only, which is something I’ve never done with Qantas.

I’m not one to advocate not flying with an airline at all (Ill retain QF plat this year), mearly to just not think of it in terms of being loyal.

 

[smckay]

I agree. Even as P1, I see fewer and fewer reasons to stay engaged(I pick this word as opposed to "loyal") with QFF - most specially at the SG and WP

And it is this that concerns me. At the very top level of status I would want to see yelling from the roof tops in appreciation, not a guarded affirmation.
As has been noted elsewhere, the One World lounge network would seem to be the better choice so is that green grass real or synthetic?

 

[elanshin]

And it is this that concerns me. At the very top level of status I would want to see yelling from the roof tops in appreciation, not a guarded affirmation.
As has been noted elsewhere, the One World lounge network would seem to be the better choice so is that green grass real or synthetic?

The OW global lounge situation is very real having OWE especially if you visit the home hubs of the various OW carriers. It's one of the biggest real perks with OW over any other alliance.

But lounge access is only one portion of the flying experience. One that some people don't even care that much for.

And if you happen to go to an area where there isn't a very strong OW presence (or none) like say Canada, South America or just non hub City then the experience is nowhere near the same.

 

[tdimdad]

The OW global lounge situation is very real having OWE especially if you visit the home hubs of the various OW carriers. It's one of the biggest real perks with OW over any other alliance.

Plus increased baggage allowance, if you need some extra. I also enjoy free preferred seat selection on some of my flights.

E.g. when over there, I tend to use AY super-light Y fares for short-haul. They come with 1 * under-seat carry on but as an OWE I'm entitled to another piece over-head. Or, on long-haul means a second 23kg bag checked in.

Similarly, selecting the AY Economy Comfort seats for free as an OWE (normal price on long-haul is to the tune of 75e / AUD $120), or exit rows on short hauls (will be very handy soon when travelling with someone who's 190cm+).

But to @smckay's question about loyalty: When is the best time to plant a tree? Similarly, if you want to, the best time to drop the loyalty is before the last disappointment. Why would you take it too far and burn your fingers?

 

[encryptededdy]

I also enjoy free preferred seat selection on some of my flights.

This is my favourite part of QF Status, even though ironically as a Platinum member it no longer offers me any meaningful benefit on QF flights (thankfully I try to fly other carriers internationally anyway).

 

[stm1sydney]

This is my favourite part of QF Status, even though ironically as a Platinum member it no longer offers me any meaningful benefit on QF flights (thankfully I try to fly other carriers internationally anyway).

Yeah, the best thing about QF status is flying other carriers!

 

[tdimdad]

Yeah, the best thing about QF status is flying other carriers!

A dead giveaway that the program is "not exactly at the top of its game", to put it softly.