Qantas Delays/Cancellations

[Comoman]

Hooray. Now I can go to bed and get some sleep.

Your homework is to work out the why, and perhaps the what then?

Some sort of flap/slats extension failure (hydraulic?), aborted approach to fix, tried again no luck, landed faster than usual due to less/no flaps.....less lift = higher speed

That's my guess anyway...

 

[Quickstatus]

That explains the double failure that Flyerqf suggested for OQB - the first (slats/flaps) required a time consuming fix, and then the aircon issue reared its head just after delayed pushback.

Anyway its on its way as QF2 some 14 hours or so late (no need to be exact now...its late and hopefully that will be the end of it...for a while...) arriving into SYD at the very busy time of 0730 ensuring passengers will have to endure the customs/quarantine/taxi rank peak time palava that is SYD.

QF2 was delayed 6 hours today due to technical issues. Then after the issue was rectified, the aircraft did taxi out for take off before another technical issue presenting and resulting in cancellation. The aircraft is VH-OQB.

I think Airconditioning is intimately associated with systems that maintain cabin pressure on an aircraft. A failure of air conditioning system resulted in a controlled descent (emergency dive according to the ever smart journalists) from FL400 -FL100 on a QF2 in December 2014.

 

[jb747]

170 kt landing speed - sounds high . About 30 kt above usual landing speed ( and faster than QF32 emergency landing speed).

FR24 I think uses ground speed which at close to ground level will be the IAS corrected for tail or head winds.

So could the 30 kts be a tailwind?. Can an A380 or any other aircraft land (or allowed to land) with such a tailwind?. Maybe the TW at the runway is a lot less?. I have not looked at the other arrivals around the same time - this would give some indication as to whether other flights has similar landing speeds.

Winds in DXB are often quite variable, with a few knots of tailwind being common. Maximum allowed tailwind is 15 knots, and it would be rare to have more than 10. For the purpose of the exercise, consider the wind to be 5 knots or less.

I dont think the "extra" speed would be for a heavy aircraft as OQB just burned 14 hrs of jet fuel.

Weight would have been within the normal range. If you were to land at the maximum TAKE OFF weight, your speed adjustment would be approximately 30 knots above normal.

Or a slats/flaps issue requiring a higher approach and landing speed.

JessicaTam may have been on the right track and a slats/flaps issue might explain the racetracking over DXB at 5000feet before landing which added another 15 min - maybe the pilots needed this to achieve a stabilised approach?

Slats and flaps are different systems. They achieve similar things, but operate independently. Jessica was heading in the right direction.

Can only mean more runway length is needed. DXB runway lengths are about 500m shorter than SYD or SIN.

DXB is actually longer than both Sydney and Singapore. Runway length is not an issue anyway.

QF32 would not have been able to emergency land in DXB as it used 4000m in SIN.:shock: Though it would have the 4500m at DWC

It's only 63 metres longer, but good thinking to consider another runway.

Having spoken to RdC about this, he actually let 32 roll a bit further towards the waiting vehicles. He could also have made the runway 'longer' by aiming for a shorter than normal touchdown point. Its issue was not the approach speed, or its weight, but the fact that a number of brakes were totally out of the system. The failure had occurred in such a way as to circumvent Airbus's otherwise many faceted backup braking system. It's not a good point of comparison, as it had many failures, some of which were interacting.

On the other hand, there have been many overweight landings in the 380 since it came into service. A general rule of thumb is that any runway that you can take off from, you can land at again immediately. In these cases weight is not a concern with regards to stopping. But, higher approach speed, and higher weight means greater "what"???

 

[jb747]

I think Airconditioning is intimately associated with systems that maintain cabin pressure on an aircraft. A failure of air conditioning system resulted in a controlled descent (emergency dive according to the ever smart journalists) from FL400 -FL100 on a QF2 in December 2014.

The issue of December 2014 was a very odd bug in the Airbus software. Basically it was possible for the system to falsely decide that the fire switches had been pulled. In that instance it then stopped using the bleed air supply, which in turn means the packs had no supply. It gave no indication within the coughpit that could lead the crew to a solution. A simple workaround was invented, which also gave info on the 'tells' of the issue. The software has now been corrected. In that instance, the cabin pressure relatively slowly 'bled' upwards, and a timely descent mean that it never got all that high, and did not set off, or need, the masks.

Dubai is a very hot place. There are some circumstances in which the combination of ambient heat and the aircraft's own heating, can cause the bleed ducting to give an overheat indication. It isn't directly looking at the temperature per se, but rather, it's using temperature as a possible indication of a duct leak. This is a known issue that we can normally work around. It's probably a case of the aircraft being too smart.

 

[jb747]

My point in all of this, is that this thread often contains attempts to analyse the why of aircraft issues, without any basic data. Other threads have become mini ATSB investigations. Fun as it can be, guesses remain guesses, unless they make use of whatever information actually exists, and then think the entire process through.

In this case, we haven't finished yet though....

 

[Flyerqf]

Anyway its on its way as QF2 some 14 hours or so late (no need to be exact now...its late and hopefully that will be the end of it...for a while...) arriving into SYD at the very busy time of 0730 ensuring passengers will have to endure the customs/quarantine/taxi rank peak time palava that is SYD

Not yet. Further delayed another 24 hours due to arrive in Sydney tomorrow morning.

The flight you are looking at is the Tuesday QF2, which was also delayed - about 3 hours.

 

[Quickstatus]

Not yet. Further delayed another 24 hours due to arrive in Sydney tomorrow morning.

The flight you are looking at is the Tuesday QF2, which was also delayed - about 3 hours.

Ah thanks FlyerQF, my bad. At the time I was trying to do too many things at the one time - watching Nigella on Masterchef, trying to solve JB747's mystery, and "listening" to my wife......


Re VH-OQB unusually fast approach:

Other flights around the same time as OQB arrival had more "usual" approach speeds, so the tailwind, air density factors could be discounted if not totally at least significantly.
A fast/heavy aircraft would have a lot more kinetic and potential energy for the pilots to manage/ bleed off. The excess energy may manifest as a harder landing with its structural implication if managed incorrectly??

Whatever the reasons for a fast approach/landing speed, did OQB require further inspection and potentially some repairs due to a more positive than expected landing?

Reason for the faster speed: Some technical fault with the landing configuration. Slats/flaps, spoilers?



...(speculating from an armchair)...

 

[jb747]

Ah, you see something that is there (extra energy), and then leap to something that FR cannot know. A heavy landing does not follow on from a high approach speed.

But, you've mentioned energy, which is appropriate. What happens to it?

 

[Quickstatus]

Ah, you see something that is there (extra energy), and then leap to something that FR cannot know. A heavy landing does not follow on from a high approach speed.

But, you've mentioned energy, which is appropriate. What happens to it?

Energy is conserved so just turns into another form. Eventually when aircraft is at a standstill, much of it is heat, ....Most of which is dissipated but the brakes may/will be hotter than design tolerance. How much more I dont know...0730 am arrival but not in the middle of summer. Air temperature <30C?

Brake replacement?. Tyre replacement? Plus whatever caused the fast approach in the first place in an aircraft just serviced in Manila. Do they get a 6 month x km warranty?

 

[Quickstatus]

Does a Facebook Wall qualify as the "Coalface" Melburnian1??)

Re VH-OQB (I added bolding)



Dear Qantas.
I'd like to tell you about everything that went wrong during our recent trip from Dubai to Sydney. Are you comfortable? This will take a while.
The story stars Monday 23 May.
We arrived in Dubai from London and made our way swiftly to our designated gate. We paid for the quickest shower of our lives and arrived just as the gate opened, fresh faced and ready to go home. We were scheduled to board at 8:20am.
At roughly 9:00am an announcement was made informing us that there was an issue with the plane's wing flap. It was being looked at by engineers and we would be boarding at 10:00am.
Just after 10:00am another announcement informed us that the wing was fixed but there was another engine issue that was being addressed. We were told to stand by.
At 11:00am we were told that the issue still wasn't resolved. This time we were allowed to leave the gate, given food vouchers and told to arrive back at 1:00pm.
We boarded the plane a little after 1:00pm grateful to be on our way. We waited patiently to be given approval to push back and off we went. Or so I thought.
The plane had barely left the gate before we were told that the air-conditioning was leaking. We returned to the gate and waited for the engineers once more.
At around 2:30pm we were told that the flight was about to exceed the legal amount of hours for flight crew and would therefore not be going anywhere today. We had to disembark the plane.
We were told we would be flying again tomorrow at 10:15am. Same plane, same seats, same crew.
Being at the back of the plane we ended up at the back of every line. The line to receive our hotel vouchers (which had incorrect boarding information) the line to go through passport control and the line to wait for the shuttle to Best Western. We didn't leave the airport till 5:30pm.
So far, we had spent a total of 10 hours either in the airport or trapped on a stationery plane.
After waiting in line, again, at Best Western, we were finally in our rooms. It was 7:00pm.
I'll fast forward now till Tuesday morning.
We arrived at the airport around 7:30am. We headed to the counter to check in. It was mayhem. Nobody seemed to know what was going on, nobody was briefed and it certainly didn't appear that any additional staff were arranged. You'd think, with over 300 delayed passengers you'd take some precautions, but evidently not.
Instead of the 10:15 QF2 as previously advised, we were put on a 9:45 flight, in different seats than before, and sent on our way. Not before being told off for removing my baggage tag, like somehow this was all my fault.
This time, at least, we were at the front of the queue. I feel sorry for those passengers who were behind us, I imagine their stories are even longer than ours.
It's here that I'd like to mention that we paid to reserve our original seats in advance, a total at $60, definitely not money well spent. And money I feel should be refunded (as a start).
We went straight to our gate and boarded on schedule at 9:00am. We waited on the plane for late passengers till around 10:45am. But given the chaos at check-in I don't blame them. It's Qantas I'm pointing the finger at.
Since we missed our scheduled push back at 9:45am we had to wait till 11:10am to leave the gate.
But we didn't. Instead we were told that there was now an issue with the auxiliary power unit which controls air-con and electronics on the ground. We would be staying here, again, till the engineers arrived, again. In the meantime we were stuck on an overheated plane.
Finally, at 12:15pm we left the gate. The aircon was on and we were finally heading to Sydney. 27 hours later than expected.
I've written this story while sitting on the grounded plane in Dubai. Partly for something to do, but mostly because I am incredibly disappointed with this flight. I find it incredibly ironic that one of the ads that plays before the in-flight entertainment features a Qantas engineer talking about how careful she is to check each plane. Yet, for the most part, this delay is due to continuous faults with your Airbus A380s.
Now don't get me wrong, I would much rather a fault be fixed here, on the ground, than ignored. But there has been so many issues I question if Qantas planes are as safe as you claim.
Now that you've read my story, I ask what are you going to do to restore my confidence in your airline? Because currently, I will never fly with you again.
Sincerely,
Josie.

 

[Melburnian1]

Flightstatus, indeed, a well written coalface report from 'Josie.' Even the spelling and punctuation is correct. Is that a first for Facebook?

What stood out was the very long delay - 85 minutes from 0945 until 1110 before another ATC clearance could allegedly be obtained for pushback, taxiing and lift off.

The Monday 23 May QF2 ex LHR was 17 minutes early arriving in DXB at 0713 hours on Tuesday 24 May, but did not then depart until 1207 with SYD arrival on Wednesday 25 May (today) being two hours 32 minutes late at 0742 hours.

The Tuesday 24 May QF2 ex LHR departed DXB today (Wednesday 25 May) at 1011 (56 minutes late) with SYD Thursday 26 May arrival predicted as 0540 hours, half an hour late.

QF12 on Tuesday departed LAX at 2315, 45 minutes late but on Thursday 26 is estimated to only be 25 minutes tardy in arriving SYD at 0655 hours.

 

[Melburnian1]

Thursday 26 May sees QF405 (0630 hours SYD down to MEL) and QF418 (0900 hours MEL back up to SYD) cancelled.

The 0825 hours MEL to MQL, QF2078, is expected to instead depart at 0930.

QF15 from BNE to LAX departed 54 minutes late at 1054 but same day arrival is predicted as only 20 minutes delayed at 0620 hours.

The 1655 hours SYD across to PER, QF569 (A332 VH-EBP) was airborne at 1729 and should arrive at about 2033, 38 minutes late. It is passing over Clarkefield, Victoria at 1832 hours. The following 1735 hours departure on the same route, QF571, took off at 1809 and should be at the PER gate at about 2122 hours, 47 minutes behind the schedule. B738 VH-XZI is the uncomfortable conveyance (compared to an A332.)

 

[Melburnian1]

On Friday 27 May, QF94 is expected to arrive in MEL at 0750 hours, 50 minutes late after only departing from LAX on the late evening of Wednesday 25 May 23 minutes behind at 2238.

 

[Melburnian1]

Due to the late arrival of QF94 as predicted above, QF93 on Friday 27 May has been altered to an expected 35 minute late departure time of 0940 hours for the long TransPacific trip to LAX. QF expects arrival will be on time at 0635.

 

[nonscenic]

Forecast winds at FL390 probably explain these delays to QF93/94. Westbound flights look like encountering some strong headwinds for the first few hours leaving LAX that are regained on the eastbound flights.

 

[Melburnian1]

Thank you nonscenic, a very apt observation. Notably this morning in SYD most flights are using runway 25 as there is also a fairly strong westerly up there. It is causing a few delays up there which may increase at the 1000 to 1100 mark in SYD as that is 'peak hour' for departing international flights.

QF414, the 0800 MEL to SYD on Friday 27 May had not departed by 0830 hours. QF416, the 0830 on the same route is expected instead to depart at roughly 0930 hours. QF418, the 0900 hours MEL to SYD has been altered to depart at 1005. QF420, the 0930 hours MEL to SYD has been changed to depart at 1010.

These numerous late Friday morning departures from MEL to SYD may be due to ATC setting new slot times given the SYD wind, but confirmation from expert AFFers would be appreciated. Inbound SYD to MEL flights have not been super late arriving in MEL thus far this morning.

QF2016 from SYD to WTB departed at 0841 instead of 0810 hours, but arrival is now predicted for 0957, just seven minutes late, earlier than previously forecast.

The 0835 hours Jetconnect-operated QF141 from SYD to AKL, B738 ZK-ZQC, was still waiting for departure clearance at 0954.

QF840 (B738 VH-VZY), the 0855 from SYD to DRW had not commenced pushback by 0935. QF512 (0905 hours SYD up to BNE, B737 VH-VZO) was similarly afflicted with the not always accurate FR24 suggesting a touchdown time of 1125 this morning in the Sunshine State, almost an hour late.

The 0830 hours SYD to PQQ, QF2164, departed at 0916 with expected arrival at roughly 1004 in lieu of 0935 hours. QF516, the 1005 from SYD to BNE is expected to be half an hour late.

QF2020 (0820 hours SYD to university town ARM) should depart at 1005 for an 1120, not 0935 hours, arrival. The following flight, QF2024, should depart at 1100, 35 minutes tardy, but preceding QF2020.

QF1416, the 0900 hours SYD to CBR had not departed by 0945. The 0920 hours SYD - HBA, QF1583 is expected to depart instead at 1010.

The long distance A388, QF11, departed from SYD 68 minutes late at 1058. Same day arrival is suggested as 50 minutes behind at 0720 hours.

QF741 (1005 hours SYD across to ADL) is suggested as pushing back half an hour late, as is QF516, the identically timed departure to BNE.

The 1030 hours SYD down to MEL, QF425, has been cancelled, as has the 1155 SYD - CBR, QF1477. This is one way for airlines to recover from delays.

The 1100 SYD - MEL, QF427, is expected to depart at 1135. QF520, the 1105 late morning SYD up to BNE should instead commence pushback at 'high noon', as should the 1135 departure, QF560.

 

[Quickstatus]

Forecast winds at FL390 probably explain these delays to QF93/94. Westbound flights look like encountering some strong headwinds for the first few hours leaving LAX that are regained on the eastbound flights.

I wonder if this is a reason for 8,12,94 to take a more GC route on this occasion. Even with this shortest route there seemed to be an approx 30 minutes extra inflight time. Luckily the 8,94 which have the most "range anxiety" did not need a "splash and dash".

FA says the "super earlies" landed on 34 (from south) as they usually do. Runway 16(from the north) landings started with EK412 for most of the morning.

Interestingly QF74 started the landings from south but interestingly AA73 landed next from the north, with subsequent flights from south.

I think runway 25 (landings from east) started with AC33 and is continuing.

 

[nonscenic]

I wonder if this is a reason for 8,12,94 to take a more GC route on this occasion. Even with this shortest route there seemed to be an approx 30 minutes extra inflight time. Luckily the 8,94 which have the most "range anxiety" did not need a "splash and dash".

Typically the westerly jet streams are poleward of about 25N or 25 S with a belt of light easterlies near the equator. On occasions when there are intense westerlies south of 25S planes going to the US will stay south (compared to the GC) to minimise fuel while AUS bound flights will stay near the equator more, with MEL bound flights crossing the coast near Townsville at times. A similar deflection can be made in the northern hemisphere to maximise tailwinds and minimise headwinds. B777 aircraft are a bit more limited by needing to be no more than 3 hours away from an airport in case of single engine operations. The most efficient flight route based on forecast winds is computer generated.

 

[Melburnian1]

Thank you nonscenic for compressing a highly technical meteorological matter into a few words that many of can more or less comprehend even if we lack great knowledge of this scientific subject.

Significant delays are continuing at SYD during the early afternoon of Friday 27 May due to the west winds. QF2108, the 1125 hours from SYD to CFS (Q400 VH-QOW) took off at 1302 hours; arrival in the banana capital of NSW ought be at 1235 but today will be at approximately 1250.

QF922, the 1035 from SYD to CNS was airborne at 1319 hours and should arrive about 135 minutes late at 1555. VH-VYI, another B738, is operating the flight.

QF520 was predicted three posts above to push back at 1200 but this did not occur until about 1320 hours, with arrival in BNE now suggested as 1430, 115 minutes late.

These huge delays will be unable to be recovered by the afternoon peak so for some - not all - AFF members booked on domestic airlines after work tonight, expect delays - although as sometimes occurs it will be hit and miss, the more so because airlines can switch aircraft of the same configuration around to prioritise one flight over another. It must be very difficult to cancel flights on a Friday afternoon as another method of reducing delays if such flights are close to, or fully booked.

 

[jb747]

yssy 270248z 27027g37kt cavok 18/m03 q1001 fm0248 mod/sev turb blw 5000ft